We need NPC classes...


General Discussion


Can we get a citizen NPC class, being a mix between the Expert and the Commoner?

I feel like in order to represent just about any regular worker of any kind, we need a NPC class that get 5 class skills and proficiency with one type of weapons.

A chef, fashion designer, software developper, actor, driver or whatnot... doesn't seem to fit in any of the current PC classes.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Why would we need classes? Just give your NPCs the skills they need. It's not like building them as PCs is the standard, here.


I agree, I don't see the point of making an NPC class.

The average expert NPC already has five skills and a proficiency... what's missing that a class brings to the table?


Insert joke about y'all being so classist towards NPCs.
Drumsnare.


NPCs literally don't need classes.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I like NPC classes specifically for recurring NPCs who may see combat and need consistent stats and scaling.

Being able to give the players an NPC hireling to control with PC building rules, but with a limited/simplified class, would be fun.


WatersLethe wrote:

I like NPC classes specifically for recurring NPCs who may see combat and need consistent stats and scaling.

Being able to give the players an NPC hireling to control with PC building rules, but with a limited/simplified class, would be fun.

Does scaling an NPC up in CR and giving a class graft + gear and new class abilities not scratch the first itch for you?

As far as a follower goes... hmm... It has potential if they're player controlled. It at least prevents sending your followers to fight naked 'because they get AC from being NPCs'.

I think I prefer to keep NPCs on the GM side of the screen. Otherwise I'm just imagining it being leadership all over again.


I was asking this because we don't have a "NPC graft", let alone a base alien stat bloc for the core races.

Like I said, just have a basic graft for a NPC with no class at all, which would fit for every civilian in Starfinder.


The basic NPC graft would just be a stat block with no graft. What else is missing?

And, we do have the base stats of the core races. Just add the racial traits to a normal statblock.


Garretmander wrote:

The basic NPC graft would just be a stat block with no graft. What else is missing?

And, we do have the base stats of the core races. Just add the racial traits to a normal statblock.

This. And if anything else seems missing for the intended use, well, that is what the Special Ability by CR are for. Spend some of them on whatever extra sauce the particular NPC needs.

All the basic stuff an NPC might need, whether HP, attack bonus, skills, even spellcasting. . . they already get from the NPC creation rules, without needing a graft.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

NPCs can clearly be created via the monster design rules if they are foes.

But are there some adjustments that we should make if they are intended to fight alongside the PCs rather than against them?


If anything the level/class based system makes it harder to have a realistic expert you need. By the PC rules you can't have Albert Einstein with a +30 to physical sciences without making them an absolute badass able to mop the floor with a room full of level 1 soldiers


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yeah, it's always been better to throw out PC style build rules for that sort of character and do what PF2 has made the official stance. Give them the skill modifier they need, with absolutely nothing to "justify" it. Let them be considered a level 16 challenge in a science fair and CR 1/4 in a fist fight.


Also, if in Pathfinder, you could hire people to run your castle, mansion, sailing ship or secret base, why not have the same thing in Starfinder?

I get that upgrading your ship to cruiser size isn't something common for your 4-PC party, but IF THAT HAPPENS, they're gonna need the adequate crew members for that. I say spaceship, but what if the PCs start their own business? They're gonna need people :P


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I'll say that personally I find the "build npcs with classes like characters" method to be more intuitive & easier to wrap my head around. That's probably because I'm set in my ways & have been doing it for so long.


JiCi wrote:

Also, if in Pathfinder, you could hire people to run your castle, mansion, sailing ship or secret base, why not have the same thing in Starfinder?

I get that upgrading your ship to cruiser size isn't something common for your 4-PC party, but IF THAT HAPPENS, they're gonna need the adequate crew members for that. I say spaceship, but what if the PCs start their own business? They're gonna need people :P

There are already rules for hiring NPCs per day. You can easily shave a bit off that price for per month instead.


JiCi wrote:

Also, if in Pathfinder, you could hire people to run your castle, mansion, sailing ship or secret base, why not have the same thing in Starfinder?

I get that upgrading your ship to cruiser size isn't something common for your 4-PC party, but IF THAT HAPPENS, they're gonna need the adequate crew members for that. I say spaceship, but what if the PCs start their own business? They're gonna need people :P

The new "kingmaker in space" AP might have rules for that.


FormerFiend wrote:
I'll say that personally I find the "build npcs with classes like characters" method to be more intuitive & easier to wrap my head around. That's probably because I'm set in my ways & have been doing it for so long.

Easier to fall into the rut of making characters level by level, but you can't convince me that you find it easier than straight reading from a table.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I find it easier to keep a recurring character consistent and interesting using HeroLab. Doing it by hand I might reconsider...


Garretmander wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:
I'll say that personally I find the "build npcs with classes like characters" method to be more intuitive & easier to wrap my head around. That's probably because I'm set in my ways & have been doing it for so long.
Easier to fall into the rut of making characters level by level, but you can't convince me that you find it easier than straight reading from a table.

It's easier for me specifically because of the process of making them level by level. Not doing that creates this mental block of "who was this character, how did they progress to this point" that I have to put considerable effort into working around.

I never said it was logical but I'm a neurodivergent individual with a particular set of idiosyncrasies.


FormerFiend wrote:
Garretmander wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:
I'll say that personally I find the "build npcs with classes like characters" method to be more intuitive & easier to wrap my head around. That's probably because I'm set in my ways & have been doing it for so long.
Easier to fall into the rut of making characters level by level, but you can't convince me that you find it easier than straight reading from a table.

It's easier for me specifically because of the process of making them level by level. Not doing that creates this mental block of "who was this character, how did they progress to this point" that I have to put considerable effort into working around.

I never said it was logical but I'm a neurodivergent individual with a particular set of idiosyncrasies.

That's fair. I tend to keep stat blocks and story impact very separate mentally, so I don't run into that so much.


I don't know about NPC classes but a listing of NPC archetypes broken down by CR rating like what we got in the NPC, Villains, and Monster Codexes would be lovely.


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thecursor wrote:
I don't know about NPC classes but a listing of NPC archetypes broken down by CR rating like what we got in the NPC, Villains, and Monster Codexes would be lovely.

Considering that these never got sequels, it would be better to get a generic class graft that represents any non-combatant citizen.

Step 4 for NPC rules is... gonna problematic for that ^^;


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JiCi wrote:
thecursor wrote:
I don't know about NPC classes but a listing of NPC archetypes broken down by CR rating like what we got in the NPC, Villains, and Monster Codexes would be lovely.

Considering that these never got sequels, it would be better to get a generic class graft that represents any non-combatant citizen.

Step 4 for NPC rules is... gonna problematic for that ^^;

Not really? You just skip step 4 for non-combatants.

Acquisitives

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Instead of NPC clases I would love to have a book with more "non-monster enemies" - like the "supporting cast" in the Pact Worlds book.

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