Level 1 feedback


Gunslinger Class


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I did a way of the drifter.

We ruled that you could reload your weapon while holding the other just to make the class work.

We only did one combat. Then I retired the class.

1- basic ways need tuning so we don't have to home brew just so it feels like it functions. This applies to pistolero as well.

2- the reload mechanic just killed it for me. I felt I was entirely one dimensional having to spend one-2 actions a round reloading with a low damage weapon. I found myself wanting to take the -2 to hit and just attack with the sword. I didn't, for posterity of The test.

That's... About it. Critting felt decent sure to deadly. But between feeling like we need to home brew the class out of the gate and the fact that reload eats up so many actions. Even if you get the move+reload feat.

Throw in missfire features.

It was a exercise in frustration. 6 rounds (decent fight) and I was unable to continue trying the class. I picked up the inventor for the rest of the day. Nobody in my group wanted to test the gunslinger further.

For now, until dev suggestions come into this forum on ways to change things so they class functions better. I don't think I'll be playtesting this class further.

I think it needs work. On multiple levels.


What do you mean "missfire features". Aren't those pretty much non existent? "Once you’ve spent at least an
hour cleaning and maintaining a weapon, you don’t need
to roll for a misfire until the next day unless an effect says
otherwise

I agree I am not a huge fan of reload 1 weapons, played a crossbow Ranger in one session and just found it kind of unfun. Kind of like a caster that uses 2 actions a round on a spell but without out the 100s of options casters get.

It is nice to have some different mechanics between characters though, so I do think a reload character should be a viable option. Some players might like the "slow" strong hits that crossbows/guns theoretically can do.

If they can make the gunslinger a competitive reload 1 class I think it would be good for a game. Fun is super "subjective", I think it is unrealistic to expect every class to feel interesting to you.

Truly how many people like the crossbow ace ranger? I feel Gunslinger is pretty much 100% based on that but with some extra fun options. Also did want to add, I am not a huge fan that the guns are based around heavy crits, would much prefer more average damage rather than crit damage.

Scarab Sages

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Having run a Gunslinger through some combats, the ways have problems and reloading is such a chore and if you don't crit you might as well just use a bow. There's not really an advantage over a bow, I'm not even sure they're on par. Crits are nice, but crits are always nice and not really frequent - same problem the Magus had in that regard, crit fishing sucks.


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I converted the Ashen Ossuary dungeon from the Doomsday Dawn playtest to final 2e rules and played through that with a gunslinger, inventor, fighter, and bard. So, spoilers if you haven't played through that.

I started the characters at 1st level and leveled them up halfway through to get more feat testing out of it. The gunslinger was a ratfolk with a cook background, the way of the Sniper, the Cover Fire feat, and a flintlock musket (I would have tested with the Arquebus if I could afford a backup gun, possessed a had higher bulk limit, and if the tripod instructions were practical and I could understand how they're intended to work).

Str 12
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 10

Doomsday Dawn spoilers:
I got a crit early on and was excited to see the musket hit like a truck in this case, dealing two or three times more damage than I even needed to one-shot a goblin warrior. Unfortunately a string of bad rolls in the second half of the dungeon became irksome as I went for round upon round without doing much of anything. This made me realize just how crucial feats that save on the action economy are to the gunslinger, particularly reloading combos.

COVER FIRE: I used it ONCE in the entire dungeon, and I think the goblin was killed by an ally before they even had a chance to attack with the penalty. Facing a ranged-attacking foe is circumstantial enough as it is, but a ranged-attacking foe that is also already benefiting from cover is doubly circumstantial. This feat just comes up so infrequently that taking it over Firearm Ace borders on negligence. I really want this feat to work too, as it's a mechanic I wanted in 1e that wasn't offered, to my knowledge. I've come up with a house-ruled version that I'd like to test at a later date. I don't know if here is the place to discuss that right now though.

When I upgraded the gunslinger to 2nd level, I retconned Cover Fire out, replacing it with Firearm Ace to test how obligatory this feat felt in comparison, and also took Hit the Dirt as the 2nd level feat, to see if this feat would prove any more worthwhile compared to Cover Fire (I'm looking for interesting options beyond simply shooting stuff).

HIT THE DIRT: Again, there was only one case of an archer foe and they didn't even go after the gunslinger, so I never used Hit the Dirt, not once. In hindsight, it's not surprising, most Strikes are directed into the melee mosh pit, even for ranged-attackers because it's tactful to help in putting down the most immediate threat first. Ranged vs ranged combat just doesn't happen very often in my experience, yet a number of these feats feel like they're designed for a guns vs guns campaign. Again, I found myself walking away with buyer's remorse, why didn't I just take Risky Reload?! I guarantee I would have used it a few times.

FIREARM ACE: I was using the feat as written, which helped my build a little bit, but this was the point when I started rolling poorly, so it actually made little difference in the end. I did not realize at the time that the intent was for the damage bonus to carry over into my next turn if not used; I think that would have helped a bit but it also makes the feat feel even MORE obligatory to take. I'd rather have firearms deal more damage by default and make them all Martial or Advanced weapons, because dealing an average of 3.5 damage without feats did not feel like a gun to me, nor did Fatal d10 make up for the need to reload. Less attacks means less crit chances after all, but I do appreciate the figher-level attack proficiency in firearms/crossbows, definitely keep that part.

ONE SHOT, ONE KILL: This was very underwhelming, I'm sorry to say, especially if my first attack ended up missing. Not only is this less damage than the precision ranger, but you only get it once, you can't add Firearm Ace to it unless you carry your firearm unloaded, and it doesn't apply if I want to use my first turn to do something other than attacking (such as sneaking into a better position, Readying my shot, etc).

My party initially avoided conflict with the goblins in the goblin headquarters via two very good, consecutive diplomacy rolls. However, loud noises from the gun shooting skeletons alerted the BBG, Drakus, to the presence of us intruders. He impatiently rallied his goblin minions to attack us while we were spending an hour trying to healing up, and he joined them to make sure they saw the battle through. The Inventor ended up dying and the fighter had to sacrifice himself gloriously to cover the gunslinger and bard's retreat. The latter two were the only ones that got out alive, too bad providing covering fire wouldn't have helped ;)

The GM didn't worry about pulling punches since it was a one-off, mind you, lol. We probably got too cocky because were were truly wiping the floor with everything that came our way leading up to that moment. However, this does demonstrate the dangers of loud muskets; Drakus probably wouldn't have heard from the other room if I used a crossbow instead but... where's the fun in that? Actually, it's a good argument for introducing silencers as a potential attachment to purchase after a few levels.

MY INITAL TAKEAWAYS/RECOMMENDATIONS:
- All gunslingers need Firearm Ace and/or just increase base gun damage and eliminate simple guns entirely.
- Grant each Way a free feat that eases the action economy in a way that compliments each style. Eg: Running Reload for the Sniper, Sword and Pistol for the Drifter, Quick Draw for the Pistolero.
- Eliminate ranged-attack dependency for Cover Fire and Hit the Dirt, and eliminate cover dependency for Cover Fire.
- Make the tripod L bulk and 1 hand/action to deploy/attach.
- Introduce firearm attachments of various item levels: bipod, bayonet, silencer, scope. Don't make them apply a penalty, just follow the existing rules where only one item at a time can be attached.
- More reload feat, like Raise a Shield + reload (but I'll save my bastion-drifter gunslinger build for another time)


The Inventor that I mentioned in my playtest above can be found here.

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