Confusion: now an area spell that you can walk out of?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

I'm a little puzzled. Pathfinder 1e confusion is all creatures in a 15-foot area. I'd been reading Starfinder confusion that way, but one of my players just read it very differently and as written, he seems to be right. In SF, confusion seems to... be an area spell that doesn't actually target creatures? It lists its effect as a 15' area burst (note: no targeting language, like in PF1) and the text says that creatures within the area are confused. Putting all that together, as written the confusion spell lingers in an area, and as long as you're there, you're confused. Leave the area and you're fine.

That seems... wrong?

https://aonsrd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Confusion&Family=Confusio n

Confusion:

Casting Time 1 standard action
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area 15-ft.-radius burst
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

This spell causes confusion in all creatures in the area, making them unable to determine their actions. Any confused creature that is attacked automatically attacks or attempts to attack its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused at the start of its next turn. Note that a confused creature will not make attacks of opportunity against any foe that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked). For confused creatures that have not been attacked, roll on the following table at the start of each affected creature’s turn each round to see what it does in that round.

Is there something I'm missing in the Magic section or something? Or is this intended? I seem to have failed my will save.


Doesn't burst imply its is a one instance of effect, but it holds a duration?
I could read that as an area if it wasn't labeled as a burst effect.


Burst
A burst effect applies to whatever is in its area when it comes into effect, including creatures that you can’t see. It doesn’t affect creatures with total cover from the burst’s point of origin, and its effects don’t extend around corners. The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst effects are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the effect extends.

So you were in the area, you're confused (and really really hosed. confusion is annoying) no matter where you move.

Sovereign Court

It's the same as in PF1 actually, where it was also a burst.

Confusion not targeting creatures has various implications. It'll work on invisible creatures in the area, you can't prevent confusing friends in the area, and spells like Sanctuary that prevent you from targeting someone, don't prevent being in the area of a Confusion. I vaguely remember but can't exactly recall there also being a lot of "when you/this monster are the target of a spell..." sorts of abilities that Confusion bypasses.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Finally got back to this!

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Burst

A burst effect applies to whatever is in its area when it comes into effect, including creatures that you can’t see. It doesn’t affect creatures with total cover from the burst’s point of origin, and its effects don’t extend around corners. The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst effects are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the effect extends.

So you were in the area, you're confused (and really really hosed. confusion is annoying) no matter where you move.

Ascalaphus wrote:

It's the same as in PF1 actually, where it was also a burst.

Confusion not targeting creatures has various implications. It'll work on invisible creatures in the area, you can't prevent confusing friends in the area, and spells like Sanctuary that prevent you from targeting someone, don't prevent being in the area of a Confusion. I vaguely remember but can't exactly recall there also being a lot of "when you/this monster are the target of a spell..." sorts of abilities that Confusion bypasses.

The bit about how bursts work is the missing piece. Not sure why I didn't grok that before. Thank you both!

For what it's worth, both PF1 and SF write the area as a burst, but in PF1 it specifically targeted "all creatures in a 15-foot area burst." That's what was confusing me.

Given the target text from the PF1 version, the point about invisibility is mostly irrelevant, I think. Both spells should hit creatures you're not aware of in the area. But yeah, that's probably made clearer (Ahaha...ha...) by not targeting creatures in SF, so it's still likely an improvement. I could see that coming into dispute in PF1 even if the ruling would be the same in the end.

I think the Sanctuary note and the note about effects triggered by being targeted still hold up though.

So, thank you, it all makes sense to me now. I appreciate the help!

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Targetting and area of effect questions sorted, there's a lot of weirdness, with Confusion in Starfinder. Most of it stems from the bit about Confused creatures automatically attacking anything that has attacked them.

How 'long' do Confused creatures keep attacking the same hostile? Do Confused creatures 'drop aggro' and go back to rolling the d% if they weren't attacked the past round, or do they 'hold aggro' until the Confusion ends / there's no more hostiles? For that matter, if a creature was attacked by a hostile before the Confusion effect began, does the Confused creature remember that the thing in front of them is hostile? (I think the answer to this one is no, since the whole Confusion effect states that you can no longer differentiate friend from foe.) What if a Confused creature is attacked by more than one creature - do they randomly determine who to attack, or would they prioritize attacking whatever attacked them most recently, or something else?

A really hardline interpretation, that is perfectly supportable by the description, is that you 'remember' what's hostile even before Confusion begins, and keep attacking that. Which means, unless Confusion is cast in the first round before attack rolls start, Confused creatures would just keep attacking whatever was hostile before the spell was cast. Which....makes the spell useless except as an opener.

Mostly up to the GM to figure out and make a call on, I suppose. A bit more clarification in the spell itself would help, though.


Even as an opener, casting the spell qualifies as an attack. So NO ONE who is affected by the spell hasn't been attacked by the caster , and every one will attack them. (ie what they'd normally do anyway)

That makes that interpretation borked to me, since it completely makes the spell not work rather than resorting to the random roll its supposed to represent.


When I ran Pathfinder, once something got hit with the confused condition, I generally started with a clean slate which is prob how I would play it here. No one in my group has that spell yet.
Generally mid way through a fire fight, PC 1 hit confusion of Drow A,B and C. Before their turn PC 2 shoots Drow B. The way I do it, Drow A and C would roll the table, Drow B would target PC 2

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Rules Questions / Confusion: now an area spell that you can walk out of? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions