Firearm Ace idea - Support for the pistol brace playstyle + catching up on damage


Gunslinger Class


I think many, if not most, of us can agree that Firearm Ace is so mandatory that it should be a lvl 1 class feature.

Why don't I take that and do you one better by adding the following text.

"A weapon also counts as having been reloaded this round for the purposes of this feat, when you:

* are wielding it when you roll for initiative
* interact to draw it"

Doesn't sound like too much and honestly doesn't do too much either. But it does a small part to catch us up on damage, which doesn't hurt. More importantly, it fixes a not insignificant issue with the pistol brace playstyle proposed by Sayre.

Boom, minor change, big smile on my face :D


I would just prefer if they removed it alltogether. There are martial firearms, there are no martial crossbows (yet).
I'd prefer alot more utility friendly feat or use point blank shot stance instead to achieve similar conclusion but simpler typed.

Firearm ace is so 'good' it is bad.
Gunslinger should be about being grim, brave, cartoonish. Could be a feat just improving damage first shot, feeling good snipeing, acting first in a combat or quickly retaliating.

Could be a weapon damage die or circumstance bonus on the first shot in the first turn of an encounter. It would feel viable but not autotake


Laki7z wrote:

I would just prefer if they removed it alltogether. There are martial firearms, there are no martial crossbows (yet).

I'd prefer alot more utility friendly feat or use point blank shot stance instead to achieve similar conclusion but simpler typed.

Firearm ace is so 'good' it is bad.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. My whole point is that it is so good and mandatory to be competitive, why not make it a class feature? Figuratively bolt it onto the class for free, since it will affect almost all weapons anyway.

How would replacing it with a weaker ability that you have to pay a class feat slot for improve the situation?


Karmagator wrote:
Laki7z wrote:

I would just prefer if they removed it alltogether. There are martial firearms, there are no martial crossbows (yet).

I'd prefer alot more utility friendly feat or use point blank shot stance instead to achieve similar conclusion but simpler typed.

Firearm ace is so 'good' it is bad.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. My whole point is that it is so good and mandatory to be competitive, why not make it a class feature? Figuratively bolt it onto the class for free, since it will affect almost all weapons anyway.

How would replacing it with a weaker ability that you have to pay a class feat slot for improve the situation?

one thing we have to choose from in terms of balance are either class features or proficiency, well I guess time will tell. It is placed as a feat for a reason. I also dislike the need to have "these conditions need to happen that will happen anyway" trigger.

I would prefer a "fun"feature or feat and if we want one for damage, play on the first deed to hit fast, and hit hard.

Now if you find it so mandatory and competetive, just put it on the survey, hitting more often tends to be good enough, add support characters and never miss.

Just dislike the "sugarcoating" and unneccesary complexity it brings to occasionaly have +2 damage and other times not just because of reload (or as suggested, when interacting to draw).

Excuse me for my rant.

Crossbow ace users might know


Laki7z wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
Laki7z wrote:

I would just prefer if they removed it alltogether. There are martial firearms, there are no martial crossbows (yet).

I'd prefer alot more utility friendly feat or use point blank shot stance instead to achieve similar conclusion but simpler typed.

Firearm ace is so 'good' it is bad.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. My whole point is that it is so good and mandatory to be competitive, why not make it a class feature? Figuratively bolt it onto the class for free, since it will affect almost all weapons anyway.

How would replacing it with a weaker ability that you have to pay a class feat slot for improve the situation?

one thing we have to choose from in terms of balance are either class features or proficiency, well I guess time will tell. It is placed as a feat for a reason. I also dislike the need to have "these conditions need to happen that will happen anyway" trigger.

I would prefer a "fun"feature or feat and if we want one for damage, play on the first deed to hit fast, and hit hard.

Now if you find it so mandatory and competetive, just put it on the survey, hitting more often tends to be good enough, add support characters and never miss.

Just dislike the "sugarcoating" and unneccesary complexity it brings to occasionaly have +2 damage and other times not just because of reload (or as suggested, when interacting to draw).

Excuse me for my rant.

Crossbow ace users might know

No need to apologize, the argument is perfectly reasonable.

My view on the matter is just that as reloading is essentially the mechanic this class deals with, we might as well make use of it. Ideally make it into something that you actually like to do, as it gives you cool bonuses when you do it, rather than it being a chore as people think of it right now. And I think this would be a good first step.

And the other point of the modification was exactly to get rid of the whole problem of not having the +2 on the first shot (single gun) or turn (dual wielding). Or always when using the pistol brace. Because damn is it annoying to deal with, I absolutely agree. The only problem will then be advanced weapons with multiple shots, but I'm sure we can find a solution for that as well.

I seriously doubt that this would mean lowering proficiency, as they are more looking at overall balance and don't have something like "class feature slots". The last one was even an official statement. It's also evidenced by fighter getting 2 feats for free at level 1, compared to 1 or none other classes get. And even with this modified Firearm Ace, ignoring the free hand reload limit for dual wielding and using Paired Shots, the current damage lags behind the competition (flurry ranger and archer fighter). It just gets worse from there. So, if anything, something like this is necessary for balance.


There's already a template to enable brace of pistols in Fane's Fourbery. A stance that designates a gun belt or bandolier as an enchantable item for potency and striking runes that applies their bonus to any gun drawn from it for 1 shot.
Could still restrict the possible guns for balancing if required.

Also would fit well with a complimentary Way that let you enter a stance as a free action when rolling initiative.


Had a small skirmish today, once without any benefits and once with +2 circumstance bonus to damage. Did it @lvl1 just to get the most basic feeling and had other players play. Without any damage boost, we had a poorly rolled damage on a crit dealing 5 damage against a 6hp goblin.

With a +2, it would be an autokill on a crit.

Average was about 2 hits to kill a goblin as round 2 did not get a single crit.

Then we add feelings, to crit and still do s*#* with a reload weapon felt crap for the player, and at one point rolling a 1 in damage for a normal hit, sure felt bad but was more in a feeling of bad roll.

Used dueling pistol for this simple test.

+2 damage on martial+ simple weapons or add a feature similar to crossbow terror the archer archetype gets at the cost for smaller HP pool (as gunslingers currently get without any "compensation").

I did try with firearm ace as is but damage boost tended to be forgotten and effect diminished at slightly higher levels.

This damage boost could easy be the multiclass dedication feat bonus. Bonus could be halved with 1handed weapons similar to how rage halves damage bonus to agile weapons as they will have often better "rate of fire".

I personally like reload as is giving it an air of a chess move (do this so this can be done), but not against getting small benefits later on (such as move and reload)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Honestly, the only thing a brace of pistols needs to be a viable plan (other than a rune sharing solution for when magic items become a thing) is a line of text that allows you to stow as a free action, so you don't have to litter the grounds with your guns (since dropping is automatically free) and can do neat gun spins to draw, fire, and return to pull out the next one.

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