Baked-in Class features - Yes, please!


Gunslinger Class

Grand Lodge

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The Gunslinger gets Basic, Advanced and Greater Deeds as a standard part of class progression. This makes sense because these features are directly tied to their chosen Way and define their style of play.

By comparison, the Witch has to take Basic, Greater and Major lessons as class feats. To me, this leaves many witch builds feeling un-witchy and more wizard-with-familiar-for-a-spell-book. Would love to see this fixed in the future.

So, yes, this post is more about my sour grapes over the Witch class than positive feedback on the Gunslinger, but I feel they got one right and one wrong.


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Casters get spells as baked-in class features. Not saying I love where the Witch is at mechanically, but that's usually the justification for spellcasters getting less features.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I feel you. I too was really disappointed with the thin chassis a witch offered.

That said, I feel the gunslinger is too thin right now too. The deeds are a really light way to impact their inherent functionality--I'd like to see something more. Like a regular, level agnostic ability that interacts with reload (since, you know, that's the biggest bottleneck on firearms right now).

Sovereign Court

I think for the Witch, it's a reaction against all the pushback sorcerers and wizards got in the original 2E playtest for having all of their focus spells baked in as static features, but in return they didn't get class feats at those levels. So that was flexed into them picking them up - or not - as class feats at those levels.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It's just the reality of how they've designed martials and spellcasters unfortunately.

Spellcasters don't get class features past level 1. You get proficiency increases and higher level spells, but nothing class specific.

Martials usually get something at level 9 and then something else at 11, 15 or 17.

Dataphiles

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Still think the gunslinger needs a couple more class features. Right now, Firearm Ace and Running Reload feel like they’re going to end up as feat taxes, I’d like to see them (or a variant of Running Reload that allows different actions) become part of the base class.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Exocist wrote:
Still think the gunslinger needs a couple more class features. Right now, Firearm Ace and Running Reload feel like they’re going to end up as feat taxes, I’d like to see them (or a variant of Running Reload that allows different actions) become part of the base class.

I was just poking through this forum for an appropriate place to say this.

I'm not ready to pronounce it unbalanced with playtesting, but there does not appear to be the correct number of class features in the chassis. A martial class should have at least 7; the gunslinger has 6, and 2 of them, the save boost on Stubborn and the range boost on Shootist Edge, are so minor and niche I hesitate to even count them (and didn't on my spreadsheet). Not to mention the weird thing going on with Master Weapon proficiency (or, the lack thereof I should say).

I think the class chassis could safely get the equivalent of a feat baked into the chassis at level 1, level 3, and a proficiency boost at 19 that yanks up all weapons to master and 1 additional weapon group to legendary. Fire Arm ace, or rather a version of it that works with any reload weapon, seems appropriate enough. Running reload isn't a bad suggestion, but there's other possibilities.

Other suggestions:
-Removing the Manipulate trait from reloading, or at least not triggering AoOs for reloading.
-Not needing a free hand to reload
-Something to allow fast crafting of bullets, a combination of infused alchemy and alchemical crafting, but for bullets. This could also be a level 1 class feat.
-Something that gives this benefit: "You also ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks within your second range increment against the prey you’re hunting."


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:
-Something to allow fast crafting of bullets, a combination of infused alchemy and alchemical crafting, but for bullets. This could also be a level 1 class feat.

I derped and forgot Basic Alchemy Benefits is a defined thing.

So, that. I want that for crafting ammunition specifically.

There's another thread asking why Alchemical Crafting isn't just built into the class. I could live with a class feat covering this, but otherwise I would like this to be a thing gunslingers can somehow access.

In fact, I'm going to just homebrew this myself to tide me over. I won't playtest with it, but in between the playtest and GG release I'm going to run with this as a level 1 class feat.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
AnimatedPaper wrote:
I think the class chassis could safely get the equivalent of a feat baked into the chassis at level 1, level 3, and a proficiency boost at 19 that yanks up all weapons to master and 1 additional weapon group to legendary. Fire Arm ace, or rather a version of it that works with any reload weapon, seems appropriate enough. Running reload isn't a bad suggestion, but there's other possibilities.

Listening to Know Direction, and I now have a better understanding of why they went with relatively so few abilities.

I looked again at the Fighter, and I still think the Gunslinger can have a bit more, but I'm more sanguine about what they do have. They don't get shield block for free, they don't get as varied or as good of weapon proficiencies, and ways are inherently less flexible than combat flexibility (kind of a duh). But with what they do have, I think an additional class feat equivalent at level 1 (Reload Ace sounds good), and the proficiency increases at 19 that I mention in this quote, and they'd be in a good spot.

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