First three levels...

[OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0]

I know this is the Playtest, and please understand I already have a problem with the lack of front-loading of PF2’s class abilities. I know right. Who does that?!?

Ennyway, until 4th level, as far as class abilities, the Inventor isn’t getting a whole lot to do with their innovation, and the 2nd level option for Weapon innovation is fairly situational (as well as being kinda visually weird for both melee and ranged, and, now that I think about it, even weirder situationally for ranged) while the Armor and Construct options are for travelling easier/transport. I would like to see a broader range of options for 1st and 2nd level feats. I understand this is perhaps not the design paradigm of PF2e, but even still, those 2nd level options are not exciting.

[Candlejake]

While pf2s classes might not be as frontloaded as say 5e generally level 1 is also more fun since most classes give you interesting things to do there already. Swashbuckler gets finishers, fighters get very nice lvl1 feats, monks get their stances and FoB. The lower level feats generally are often also very interesting.

Both Gunslinger and Inventor have pretty meh first low level feats. They seem rather situational, utility oriented or even niche (NO! NO! I CREATED YOU! is a very thematic feat but how often is something controlling someone at low level?) And the base class also doesnt give something interesting to do by itself like swashbuckler or rogue gets.

The classes bot need "something to do"

[beowulf99]

I'm actually fine with how they both operate at low levels honestly.

The Gunslinger will have their first deed to play around with as well as their choice of some pretty neat feats. Risky Reload at 2nd for additional daka, Assisting shot for a slight group buff. 1st level they get Firearm Ace to make their shot hurt just that little bit more.

Sword and Pistol (Froggy went a courtin') is undervalued I think for a 1,2,3 punch. With an Agile weapon your third attack will only be at a -6, which is nothing to scoff at.

The inventor suffers a bit more I suppose, but really it depends on what their Innovation is. An Armor inventor is just not going to come online until later levels. But even then they have options. Explode is decent at lower levels against mooks. Overdrive is a reliable damage buff that puts a low level Weapon Innovator ahead of most classes damage wise with a good check.

A companion innovator has a companion to mess around with, and it even benefits from Overdrive.

Feat wise you have Explosive leap which is pretty decent mobility at first level, especially if there is a gap to clear. Kickback Strike can put a Ranged Weapon innovator well out of the reach of a dangerous enemy, while still allowing them to attack.

Searing restoration isn't the worst option either. It's not Great, but it is non-magical on demand healing, and virtually unlimited 10 minute out of combat healing before many characters could grab Continual recovery.

The transform feats are neat as well in the right campaign. The ability to carry your armor incognito, and instantly don said armor in a pinch, could be pretty handy.

[shroudb]

Between Explode, Tamper, Command and Overdrive I see their early levels pretty diverse in actions they can take. With options to take some more circumstantial actions like Searing and etc.

Armor is MUCH more "campaign specific" feats though which I dislike (both transform and waterbreathing being imo campaign specific feats rather than something with wide applications)

[beowulf99]

shroudb wrote:

Between Explode, Tamper, Command and Overdrive I see their early levels pretty diverse in actions they can take. With options to take some more circumstantial actions like Searing and etc.

Armor is MUCH more "campaign specific" feats though which I dislike (both transform and waterbreathing being imo campaign specific feats rather than something with wide applications)

True enough about Armor, but then again they also have access to whatever DR they want starting at first level, on top of having good medium armor for free, and overdriving whatever melee weapon they want to wield. They maybe don't have quite as many options as the other two from 1st to 4th, but they are surely not "weak" or even really boring. They are a Brainiac tank.

[shroudb]

beowulf99 wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Between Explode, Tamper, Command and Overdrive I see their early levels pretty diverse in actions they can take. With options to take some more circumstantial actions like Searing and etc.

Armor is MUCH more "campaign specific" feats though which I dislike (both transform and waterbreathing being imo campaign specific feats rather than something with wide applications)

True enough about Armor, but then again they also have access to whatever DR they want starting at first level, on top of having good medium armor for free, and overdriving whatever melee weapon they want to wield. They maybe don't have quite as many options as the other two from 1st to 4th, but they are surely not "weak" or even really boring. They are a Brainiac tank.

they are probably not weak, true, i just find their early options "lacking".

imo the "darkvision +detenct invisible" feat as an example should have been an armor modification (like you modify the helmet) rather than open to all.

and maybe at somewhere like level 4 (similar to the switch weapon feat) alongside the waterbreathing which is niche, something more like "modification: you can modify your armor to hold a shield leaving your hand open" which would be more universally useful without being overboard imo.