# How fast can you move diagonally through difficult terrain?

### Rules Discussion

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Core Rulebook pg. 475 wrote:

Difficult Terrain
Difficult terrain is any terrain that impedes your movement, ranging from particularly rough or unstable surfaces to thick ground cover and countless other impediments. Moving into a square of difficult terrain (or moving 5 feet into or within an area of difficult terrain, if you’re not using a grid) costs an extra 5 feet of movement. Moving into a square of greater difficult terrain instead costs 10 additional feet of movement. This additional cost is not increased when moving diagonally. You can’t Step into difficult terrain.

Just wanted to confirm that I am understanding the second to last sentence correctly.

If I'm moving diagonally through difficult terrain, the movement cost would be 10/15/10/15, correct? And if I'm moving diagonally through greater difficult terrain, the movement cost would be 15/20/15/20?

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Yeah, that is how it would be handled.

Gary Bush wrote:
Yeah, that is how it would be handled.

If normal is 5/10, and DT is 10/15, and GDT is 15/20... then that sentence hasn't actually done anything at all. There is no additional cost that wasn't increased.

I think greater difficult terrain is 15/15/15/15 because the "additional cost" isn't increased when moving diagonally, and the 10 feet added from GDT is referred to as "10 additional feet of movement".

Yeah I think it's 5/10 for normal, 10/10 for difficult, 15/15 for greater difficult terrain.

theservantsllcleanitup wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Yeah, that is how it would be handled.
If normal is 5/10, and DT is 10/15, and GDT is 15/20... then that sentence hasn't actually done anything at all. There is no additional cost that wasn't increased.

The additional cost is 5 for DT and 10 for GDT.

I would think the point of that sentence is that DT is "flat +5", not "double cost", and GDT is "flat +10", not "triple cost".

They might have been worried people would think it was normal 5/10, DT 10/20, GDT 15/30.

The word "additional" only appears twice. Once to tell us that GDT "costs 10 additional feet" (instead of 5), and then next that "This additional cost is not increased when moving diagonally" (meaning not increased from 5). So if we're ignoring the additional cost replacement, then moving diagonally through GDT is no different than moving diagonally through DT.

Diagonal Movement:
T: +0/+5/+0/+5
DT: +5/+10/+5/+10
GDT: +5/+10/+5/+10

Handling GDT as +10/+15/+10/+15 ignores the second-to-last sentence that Ravingdork focused on.

Although. Heh. Given the number of different responses in just these handful of posts, I suppose I wouldn't fault any GM for going with any of them on the fly.

So if GDT is +5/+10/+5/+10, what is the point of having it?

After reading what others have said and considering the written rules more closely, I think (now) that GDT is +10/+15/+10/+15. This does not ignore the second-to-last sentence. As I read it, the cost to move diagonally is 5' plus 10'. Then there is no additional cost added.

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theservantsllcleanitup wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Yeah, that is how it would be handled.

If normal is 5/10, and DT is 10/15, and GDT is 15/20... then that sentence hasn't actually done anything at all. There is no additional cost that wasn't increased.

I think greater difficult terrain is 15/15/15/15 because the "additional cost" isn't increased when moving diagonally, and the 10 feet added from GDT is referred to as "10 additional feet of movement".

You misunderstood.

Normal 5/10
DT 5 (+5) / 10 (+5) is 10/15
GDT 5(+10) / 10(+10) is 15/20

The additional cost doesn't increase, but the diagonal still works like normal.

Darn you Ryan! You make a perfectly valid point that shoots a hole in my thought process....

GM OfAnything wrote:

You misunderstood.

Normal 5/10
DT 5 (+5) / 10 (+5) is 10/15
GDT 5(+10) / 10(+10) is 15/20

The additional cost doesn't increase, but the diagonal still works like normal.

Let me ask you this: what would it look like if the second to last sentence wasn't there and the additional cost did increase?

If the second-to-last sentence weren't there, the additional cost still would not increase.

So the second to last sentence is meaningless and superfluous?

The additional cost for moving through difficult terrain is 5 feet. This additional cost is increased to 10 feet when moving through Greater Difficult terrain, however this additional cost is not increased when moving diagonally.

Thus, diagonal movement normally is 5/10, into difficult terrain is 10/15, and into greater difficult terrain is 15/15.

Something has to not increase. If diagonal GDT is 15/20, everything has increased.

Nevermind, I get it now. That sentence is saying that it isn't FURTHER increased by moving diagonally. Why anyone would assume it was is beyond me, that's why it made no sense to me. It's saying "don't invent an extra additional cost from moving diagonally that isn't mentioned anywhere else".

Although, it wouldn't be absurd to charge an extra 5 ft for diagonal movement in greater difficult terrain at least. After all, you are moving through about 50% more space.
But the rule looks clear to me: the additional cost that doesn't increase is the 5 or 10 ft that come from diffcult or greater difficult terrain.

theservantsllcleanitup wrote:
So the second to last sentence is meaningless and superfluous?

It's probably there to confirm that it works differently from previous editions where 'difficult terrain' was double cost rather than +5 cost.

...so what's the final consensus, here?

A. 15/20/15/20
B. 15/15/15/15
C. 10/15/10/15
D. Something else?

For GDT? I think C is the answer.

That is my vote as well, but I'm not understanding some of the posts above, so wanted to make sure.

I'm voting for C.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Downie wrote:
theservantsllcleanitup wrote:
So the second to last sentence is meaningless and superfluous?
It's probably there to confirm that it works differently from previous editions where 'difficult terrain' was double cost rather than +5 cost.

Beat me to it.

Yes, this is my belief as well.

So, moving diagonally in greater difficult terrain costs less than moving straight? No way.

Moving straight is 10' per square. What do you see as the cost of moving straight?

Keep in mind that these values are in addition to the normal cost of movement.

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Just pay the distance travelled plus terrain and you will always be consistent.

So going straight forward 4 hexes is 5/5/5/5 for distance and +10/+10/+10/+10 for GDT and a final of 15/15/15/15. If you instead go diagonal it is 5/10/5/10 for distance and +10/+10/+10/+10 for GDT and a final of 15/20/15/20.

The sentence about not increasing additional terrain costs when moving diagonally either is for clarification (always stayes at +10 for GDT) or in reference to a former iteration of the movement rules or in reference to some former edition movment rules or all of the above.

Yeah that second-to-last sentence needs to be removed.