Alternate Natural attacks for Shifter's claws


Rules Questions


If you choose the alternate natural attack for the shifter claws do you "generate" the appropriate limb? Like for example if your a FeyForm Shifter you can choose from the bite and the stinger, would you generate a limb for the stinger or would your arm turn into a stinger?


Neither.
"These alternate natural attacks modify only the damage type of the shifter’s natural attacks and otherwise function exactly as the shifter claws class feature."

It just changes the damage type. I don't think that's what they wanted to say exactly, and it's a disappointing way to run the feature, but it seems like it does between almost nothing and less than nothing. In this case your claw would go from piercing and blunt, to just piercing.

Cosmetically, your arm could look like a stinger, or the stinger could come from your wrist. But I wouldn't expect you to receive extra limbs to combine with claws you may already have.

Dark Archive

ErichAD wrote:

Neither.

"These alternate natural attacks modify only the damage type of the shifter’s natural attacks and otherwise function exactly as the shifter claws class feature."

It just changes the damage type. I don't think that's what they wanted to say exactly, and it's a disappointing way to run the feature, but it seems like it does between almost nothing and less than nothing. In this case your claw would go from piercing and blunt, to just piercing.

Cosmetically, your arm could look like a stinger, or the stinger could come from your wrist. But I wouldn't expect you to receive extra limbs to combine with claws you may already have.

i just reread that. thats lame.

Quote:
Each time the shifter activates her shifter’s claws ability in her natural form, she can manifest one of the alternate natural attacks listed below for any of her chosen aspects, or those that relate to her archetype. Each alternate natural attack replaces one of the shifter’s claw attacks. The shifter can gain up to two different alternate natural attacks with this method. These alternate natural attacks modify only the damage type of the shifter’s natural attacks and otherwise function exactly as the shifter claws class feature.

apparently you dont grow the appendage, you just turn you hand into antlers, or a horn, or a bite.


RAW it seems the above posters are correct, but I would definitely take a RAI approach to this. The shiftier's claws only give you two natural attacks, regardless of what type it is. I'd allow a modification to other body parts aside from the hands, but no limb growth. So bite actually from your mouth, gore with sprouted horns, etc. But no sprouting tentacles, wings, or tails you don't have. The only real "danger" is if someone wants to use non hand/claw attacks and then add an iterative weapon attack. At that point, since I'm talking RAI, just GM adjudicate to prevent abuse if it's too lopsided.

Since there are numerous builds and ways to get natural attacks with weapon attacks, that may have even been the intent of alternate attack types from different aspects. Otherwise, why would a shifter even need weapon proficiency?

I'm aware this isn't RAW, just my 2 cents.

Liberty's Edge

No.
And you don't get to make more natural attacks by combining it with other abilities that give you claw attacks.


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RAW, it's on your hands. But then again, RAW, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from stacking multiple "add natural weapons to hands" abilities. Oh, and by the way: The polymorph rules say "In addition to these benefits [that the spell lists], you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature", so if we strictly adhere to RAW, a 4th level Shifter turning into a Deinonychus has seven natural attacks. Although one might argue that the polymorph rules only refer to polymorph spells, so a supernatural ability like Wild Shipe doesn't use them at all, and upon shape shifting, the Shifter has not Int 2.

Yeah, I don't think rigid adherence to RAW is the way to go here.

Sysryke wrote:
I would definitely take a RAI approach to this. The shiftier's claws only give you two natural attacks, regardless of what type it is. I'd allow a modification to other body parts aside from the hands, but no limb growth. So bite actually from your mouth, gore with sprouted horns, etc. But no sprouting tentacles, wings, or tails you don't have.

This is by far the most sensible way of ruling it that I can see. I'm also presume it's what the author intended - I mean, what - "a stag aspect shifter growing claws makes no sense, so now he grows f$!$ing antlers on his hand, that totally makes sense"?


If I were running a game where someone played a shifter, I'd probably just let them have the limbs. A character could just as easily "alter self" into a canopy troll, a couple of extra limbs on a shifter's natural form aren't hurting anything.


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Derklord wrote:

RAW, it's on your hands. But then again, RAW, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from stacking multiple "add natural weapons to hands" abilities. Oh, and by the way: The polymorph rules say "In addition to these benefits [that the spell lists], you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature", so if we strictly adhere to RAW, a 4th level Shifter turning into a Deinonychus has seven natural attacks. Although one might argue that the polymorph rules only refer to polymorph spells, so a supernatural ability like Wild Shipe doesn't use them at all, and upon shape shifting, the Shifter has not Int 2.

Yeah, I don't think rigid adherence to RAW is the way to go here.

Sysryke wrote:
I would definitely take a RAI approach to this. The shiftier's claws only give you two natural attacks, regardless of what type it is. I'd allow a modification to other body parts aside from the hands, but no limb growth. So bite actually from your mouth, gore with sprouted horns, etc. But no sprouting tentacles, wings, or tails you don't have.
This is by far the most sensible way of ruling it that I can see. I'm also presume it's what the author intended - I mean, what - "a stag aspect shifter growing claws makes no sense, so now he grows f%~~ing antlers on his hand, that totally makes sense"?

I'm going to treasure this moment. For a brief, shining instant, we are in accord on a subject. :P . . . . Seriously, thanks.

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