Name Violation and I were having a discussion in another thread regarding how Touch Attacks, Holding the Charge, and Accidental Discharge work, and their relationship to how Magus deliver Touch Spells via their weapon.
Relevant Rules:
Spellstrike (Su)
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Scenarios:
(Are these statements True, False, or require additional Conditions/Circumstances/Elaboration/Explanation?)Assumptions: this is a Magus with a melee weapon in his hand, the weapon never leaves the Magus's hand.
A) If you cast a Touch Spell early in the morning and begin to Hold the Charge, the Charge is now being held indefinitely, but then later that afternoon you touch anyone or anything (an ally, an enemy, or an unattended object) with your person (not your weapon, because you're not Spellstriking), even unintentionally, the spell discharges.
B) If you enter combat and perform a Spellstrike, you miss with your attack because you roll and hit an AC of 2, and the DM describes the miss as "you completely whiff, striking nothing but air", the spell does not discharge. You are still holding the charge.
The curve-ball scenarios:
C) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack due to rolling a nat 1, and the DM describes the critically-failed attack as "you strike your adjacent ally with the weapon", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on your Ally.
D) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack due to cover, and the DM describes the missed attack as "you strike the table/door/wall/inanimate object that the target was using for cover", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on the inanimate object that was being used for cover.
E) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack because the target's AC is 26 and you rolled to hit an AC of 25, and the DM describes the missed attack as "you strike the target's armor/shield but cause no damage with the weapon", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on the enemy's armor/shield.
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By your logic you'll never satisfy the line "if the attack misses you still hold the charge".
Think of it binary. Yes or no. Hit or miss.
Did you hit? Yes spell happens. Did you miss? Hold the charge. Full stop.
No "you miss, but..."
No circumstances. Yes or not, hit or miss, black or white. No shades of gray in between.
If the spell discharges, then the target of the attack would take the damage even on a miss, since by your logic you still touched them
By your logic you'll never satisfy the line "if the attack misses you still hold the charge".
Think of it binary. Yes or no. Hit or miss.
Did you hit? Yes spell happens. Did you miss? Hold the charge. Full stop.
No you hit, but...
No circumstances. Yes or not, hit or miss, black or white. No shades of gray in between.
I think you're falsely assuming my logic as "if you defeat an enemy's Touch AC with an attack, but miss their total AC, then you automatically hit the target's armor/shield and the DM must allow it." And I've never said that, ever.
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Attack Roll
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
Automatic Misses and Hits
A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).
so a 1 RAW misses, no "strike an ally", no "hit the ground", just miss.
attack roll states if your result equals or beats, you hit.
if your attack roll does not equal or beat, you do not hit. period.
nothing says if you miss you still touch them.
striking the cover was a 3.0 rule that never made it any further
Attack Roll
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.Automatic Misses and Hits
A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).so a 1 RAW misses, no "strike an ally", no "hit the ground", just miss.
attack roll states if your result equals or beats, you hit.
if your attack roll does not equal or beat, you do not hit. period.
striking the cover was a 3.0 rule that never made it any further
So when your DM describes a critical failure 1 roll, and says "you fumble your attack and drop your sword", you flip the table and cast Polymorph into Rules Lawyer then I take it? "NUH UH DM UR WRONG, I MISS AND THAT'S THAT"
What do you think is the purpose of this rule then? "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
How do you unintentionally touch something in-game?
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So when your DM describes a critical failure 1 roll, and says "you fumble your attack and drop your sword", you flip the table and cast Polymorph into Rules Lawyer then I take it? "NUH UH DM UR WRONG, I MISS AND THAT'S THAT"
What do you think is the purpose of this rule then? "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
How do you unintentionally touch something in-game?
saying you drop the sword is a houserule, not RAW. not a valid argument in rules forum.
doing something like drawing a weapon, you touch it. making an AoO would discharge it if that attack hits. picking up a dropped object would discharge it. if you walk around with a held charge all day, you'll probably touch something.
but the rules state if the attack roll misses, you hold the charge.
all your arguments are "the dm can say things" which isnt the function of the rules forum.
Or did the Dm say the sword touch air molecules, or a the common cold mid swing and discharge before the attack?
are touch spells usable under water or in the rain? because under water you still touch the water, and raindrops still hit your hand, but you can make attacks with touch spells under those circumstances too (to the best of my knowledge)
So when your DM describes a critical failure 1 roll, and says "you fumble your attack and drop your sword", you flip the table and cast Polymorph into Rules Lawyer then I take it? "NUH UH DM UR WRONG, I MISS AND THAT'S THAT"
What do you think is the purpose of this rule then? "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
How do you unintentionally touch something in-game?
saying you drop the sword is a houserule, not RAW. not a valid argument in rules forum.
doing something like drawing a weapon, you touch it. making an AoO would discharge it if that attack hits. picking up a dropped object would discharge it. if you walk around with a held charge all day, you'll probably touch something.
but the rules state if the attack roll misses, you hold the charge.
all your arguments are "the dm can say things" which isnt the function of the rules forum.
Or did the Dm say the sword touch air molecules, or a the common cold mid swing and discharge before the attack?
are touch spells usable under water or in the rain? because under water you still touch the water, and raindrops still hit your hand, but you can make attacks with touch spells under those circumstances too (to the best of my knowledge)
We're in a rules forum. What's the purpose of this rule: "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."?
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We're in a rules forum. What's the purpose of this rule: "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."?So when your DM describes a critical failure 1 roll, and says "you fumble your attack and drop your sword", you flip the table and cast Polymorph into Rules Lawyer then I take it? "NUH UH DM UR WRONG, I MISS AND THAT'S THAT"
What do you think is the purpose of this rule then? "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
How do you unintentionally touch something in-game?
saying you drop the sword is a houserule, not RAW. not a valid argument in rules forum.
doing something like drawing a weapon, you touch it. making an AoO would discharge it if that attack hits. picking up a dropped object would discharge it. if you walk around with a held charge all day, you'll probably touch something.
but the rules state if the attack roll misses, you hold the charge.
all your arguments are "the dm can say things" which isnt the function of the rules forum.
Or did the Dm say the sword touch air molecules, or a the common cold mid swing and discharge before the attack?
are touch spells usable under water or in the rain? because under water you still touch the water, and raindrops still hit your hand, but you can make attacks with touch spells under those circumstances too (to the best of my knowledge)
keeps you from drawing a weapon, picking up things, drawing components, and walking around all day with a harm spell preloaded in your hand
keeps you from drawing a weapon, picking up things, drawing components, and walking around all day with a harm spell preloaded in your handWe're in a rules forum. What's the purpose of this rule: "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."?So when your DM describes a critical failure 1 roll, and says "you fumble your attack and drop your sword", you flip the table and cast Polymorph into Rules Lawyer then I take it? "NUH UH DM UR WRONG, I MISS AND THAT'S THAT"
What do you think is the purpose of this rule then? "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
How do you unintentionally touch something in-game?
saying you drop the sword is a houserule, not RAW. not a valid argument in rules forum.
doing something like drawing a weapon, you touch it. making an AoO would discharge it if that attack hits. picking up a dropped object would discharge it. if you walk around with a held charge all day, you'll probably touch something.
but the rules state if the attack roll misses, you hold the charge.
all your arguments are "the dm can say things" which isnt the function of the rules forum.
Or did the Dm say the sword touch air molecules, or a the common cold mid swing and discharge before the attack?
are touch spells usable under water or in the rain? because under water you still touch the water, and raindrops still hit your hand, but you can make attacks with touch spells under those circumstances too (to the best of my knowledge)
How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
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if you miss an attack and the GM says you struck something, that GM is overstepping their boundry as a game "referee" . makes a great description, but adds extra punishment for no reason.
Same as if they say you lost a hand to a crit. there arent (non-variant) rules that do that.
"that goblin did 5 damage on a crit, your TWF 20th level character cant twf anymore. lol." same difference. thats over stepping the rules of the game.
if you miss an attack and the GM says you struck something, that GM is overstepping their boundry as a game "referee" . makes a great description, but adds extra punishment for no reason.
Same as if they say you lost a hand to a crit. there arent (non-variant) rules that do that.
"that goblin did 5 damage on a crit, your TWF 20th level character cant twf anymore. lol." same difference. thats over stepping the rules of the game.
Answer the question please. How do you unintentionally touch something or someone in-game?
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How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
by being absent minded. by stating you do an action that specifically requires you to touch something combats over and you fix dinner and forget you had the spell in hand. making a climb check while holding a spell and not thinking about it. making a heal check on someone. MAYBE (RAW no, but i could almost see an argument for) standing up from prone.
Missing an attack does NOT require touching them
by being absent minded. combats over and you fix dinner and forget you had the spell in hand. making a climb check while holding a spell and not thinking about it. making a heal check on someone. MAYBE (RAW no, but i could almost see an argument for) standing up from prone.
How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
No, those are things you told the DM you're doing intentionally. You would actively tell the DM I'm going to make a Heal check on Mr. Hurtguy over there, I'm fixing dinner, etc.
How do you UNINTENTIONALLY touch something or someone in-game?
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by being absent minded. combats over and you fix dinner and forget you had the spell in hand. making a climb check while holding a spell and not thinking about it. making a heal check on someone. MAYBE (RAW no, but i could almost see an argument for) standing up from prone.
How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
No, those are things you told the DM you're doing. You would actively tell the DM I'm going to make a Heal check on Mr. Hurtguy over there, I'm fixing dinner, etc.
How do you UNINTENTIONALLY touch something or someone in-game?
litterally forgetting you are holding it. "i'm gonna climb" ok. your spell discharged. "crap, i forgot". thats how
litterally forgetting you are holding it. "i'm gonna climb" ok. your spell discharged. "crap, i forgot". thats howby being absent minded. combats over and you fix dinner and forget you had the spell in hand. making a climb check while holding a spell and not thinking about it. making a heal check on someone. MAYBE (RAW no, but i could almost see an argument for) standing up from prone.
How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
No, those are things you told the DM you're doing. You would actively tell the DM I'm going to make a Heal check on Mr. Hurtguy over there, I'm fixing dinner, etc.
How do you UNINTENTIONALLY touch something or someone in-game?
No, you intended to touch that and simply forgot you were holding a charge.
You unintentionally touch things by not actually meaning to touch them. I.E. them touching you, even though you're trying to avoid being touched
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by being absent minded. combats over and you fix dinner and forget you had the spell in hand. making a climb check while holding a spell and not thinking about it. making a heal check on someone. MAYBE (RAW no, but i could almost see an argument for) standing up from prone.
How do you unintentionally touch someone or something in-game?
No, those are things you told the DM you're doing intentionally. You would actively tell the DM I'm going to make a Heal check on Mr. Hurtguy over there, I'm fixing dinner, etc.
How do you UNINTENTIONALLY touch something or someone in-game?
get bull rushed into someone maybe
Right. You unintentionally touch things in-game due to environmental aspects, like things getting bull rushed into you, right?
so air molecules and water drops discharge spells too?
The rule is Anything and Anyone. If your DM wants to include air molecules and water drops, that's absurd, don't you agree?
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so air molecules and water drops discharge spells too?The rule is Anything and Anyone. If your DM wants to include air molecules and water drops, that's absurd, don't you agree?
right, and the rules say you hit or miss. not you hit but still touch
if you touch them, they would still take the damage (even unintentionally)
So if someone gets bull rushed into you, and you are holding a charge, does the charge go off?
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So if someone gets bull rushed into you, and you are holding a charge, does the charge go off?
RAW no. keepin on PURE RAW nothing will ever make you unintentionally discharge a touch.
The logic you've set forth is nothing you intentionally do, unintentionally touches things. so that whole line is invalid. they intend for you to cast a spell 1sth thing in the morning and walk around with it all day. you never use that hand for anything else. not eating, drinking, picking up objects, petting a cat. nothing.
so car accidents cant ever happen because they intentionally scape paint with the other guy
or the game say "you miss, you get to try again" which it does with the whole "you still hold the charge if you miss with an attack"
So if someone gets bull rushed into you, and you are holding a charge, does the charge go off?RAW no. keepin on PURE RAW nothing will ever make you unintentionally discharge a touch.
The logic you've set forth is nothing you intentionally do unintentionally touches things.
so car accidents cant ever happen because they intentionally scape paint
Nothing can possibly touch you against your will in-game?
So if someone gets bull rushed into you, the spell doesn’t discharge?
So why do you think the developers included “even unintentionally” to that rule?
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So why do you think the developers included “even unintentionally” to that rule?
if someone else intentionally touches your weapon.
keeps people from holding the charge on cure wounds, then wielding a weapon and shield and touching themselves rounds later
keeps people from walking around with offensive spells preloaded in their hand all day
so why do you think they developers included the "if you miss you still hold the charge" rule if it never works unless you miss touch ac?
Because if you whiff and hit nothing but air, you've touched nothing, and you still hold the charge.
Why do players use Armor and Shields if nothing ever hits them? Isn't the point of armor and shields to make sure that weapons that hit you don't actually hit your skin, muscular tissue, and vital organs?
What's the point of having Flat-footed AC if nothing ever hits the armor/shield?
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Why do players use Armor and Shields if nothing ever hits them? Isn't the point of armor and shields to make sure that weapons that hit you don't actually hit your skin?
mechanically they just raise the # required to hit. they dont absorb any damage. hence why they dont take damage themselves.
you want the armor as DR variant for lower ac but armor actually absorbs the blow.
without the armor or shield flat footed is AC 10. with its a higher number. neverming how it "logicall" should work, MECHANICALLY you just wiff if you miss, and if you had a held touch spell you would still have a held touch spell
How does Natural Armor work then? Isn't that rough hide/skin?
The rules are not describing every corner case and they aren't a physics model of how a universe runs.
A spell charge doesn't go off when the holder touches the air, assuming that air is a suitable environment for said holder.
The rules can't state all the common sense cases. There are times where the Pathfinder rules are poorly written, this is the case with a spell charge and a weapon attack when the weapon attack fails to hit total AC but does hit touch AC. Here, the rules are silent when they shouldn't be as it isn't clear cut. The rules try to represent the sword of the attacker clanging on the shield of the defender, this is legitimate ground to wonder whether a charge goes off. Narration is to be aided by the rules, not the other way around. The shield does block block the sword, this point isn't debatable. How the rules model this block is what is debated.
Discussing whether the medium around the caster discharges the spell is a fallacy, namely reductio ad absurdum.
- Also, we have no idea whether matter in-universe is made of the same stuff that matter in our universe is made of. Talk of molecules, atoms, particles is therefore irrelevant -
The rules are grey at best so it is the purview of the G.M. to make a ruling. Either way, it isn't homebrew at all.
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How does Natural Armor work then? Isn't that rough hide/skin?
youre trying to make an argument for varing degrees of missing, which the game doe not do.
its a false logical extrapolation
look at mirror image. it has things that happen if you miss by certain numbers. thats a specific exception to the rule.
the holding the charge only says hit or miss. a or b. nothing exists between.
So, here are your answers Name Violation.
A) If you cast a Touch Spell early in the morning and begin to Hold the Charge, the Charge is now being held indefinitely, but then later that afternoon you touch anyone or anything (an ally, an enemy, or an unattended object) with your person (not your weapon, because you're not Spellstriking), even unintentionally, the spell discharges.
Yes, this is true. Even retrieving a potion.
B) If you enter combat and perform a Spellstrike, you miss with your attack because you roll and hit an AC of 2, and the DM describes the miss as "you completely whiff, striking nothing but air", the spell does not discharge. You are still holding the charge.
Yes.
C) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack due to rolling a nat 1, and the DM describes the critically-failed attack as "you strike your adjacent ally with the weapon", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on your Ally.
Mostly False. The Touch Spell would only affect the Ally if the Magus wished it to, because the charge is in the Magus's hand still, but would still cause damage to the ally from the weapon.
D) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack due to cover, and the DM describes the missed attack as "you strike the table/door/wall/inanimate object that the target was using for cover", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on the inanimate object that was being used for cover.
Mostly False. The Touch Spell would only affect the Inanimate Object if the Magus wished it to, because the charge is in the Magus's hand still.
E) If you Spellstrike and you miss with your attack because the target's AC is 26 and you rolled to hit an AC of 25, and the DM describes the missed attack as "you strike the target's armor/shield but cause no damage with the weapon", you have just satisfied the condition of "if you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges". The spell discharges on the enemy's armor/shield.
Mostly True. The Touch Spell would only affect the Enemy if the Magus wished it to.
While Name Violation is correct in some of the scenarios described are hose rules, that does not mean they are not rules. The answer for most hose rules is usually going to be ask your GM. That does not mean other cannot offer opinions on how they would do things
In scenario A it is going to be difficult for a person to avoid touching anything all day. More than likely the character is going to have to lose the charge at some point during the day. If a player tried doing this in a campaign I am running they will be taking penalties to practically everything as they try to hold the charge. The penalties will be especially high trying to for any social skills. Trying to bargain with the merchant while hand is crackling with electricity is going to be difficult if not impossible.
The way I look at it, is that when you deliver a touch spell through a weapon it is no longer a touch spells and therefore no longer subject to the holding charge rules. To deliver the spell through the weapon they need to touch the weapon being used. When you use spell strike you are trading away your ability to hold a charge for a free attack at your highest BAB with the weapon.
Indecently the way armor really works is to distribute the force of the blow over a larger area thereby reducing the damage to the person wearing the armor. Weapons can do damage without penetrating the armor especially blunt weapons.
I think suggesting that the DM has zero agency in describing an attack as hitting and clanging off armor and shields is absolutely absurd, especially when it's 1 AC under the target's total AC. The fact that Name Violation is suggesting that no attacks with weapons will ever clang off armor and shields and every miss is a whiff even vs. FF AC is ridiculous rainbow unicorn garbage meant for small children.
And as for Touch Attacks hitting air molecules, rain, and being unusable underwater, that's equally absurd. This game isn't played in the vacuum of space. Go play Starfinder if you're going to be that ridiculous.
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I think suggesting that the DM has zero agency in describing an attack as hitting and clanging off armor and shields is absolutely absurd, especially when it's 1 AC under the target's total AC. The fact that Name Violation is suggesting that no attacks with weapons will ever clang off armor and shields and every miss is a whiff even vs. FF AC is ridiculous rainbow unicorn garbage meant for small children.
And as for Touch Attacks hitting air molecules, rain, and being unusable underwater, that's equally absurd. This game isn't played in the vacuum of space. Go play Starfinder if you're going to be that ridiculous.
Wait, why is touching water ok? swimming litterally requires you to touch the water
also, according to the FAQ even if your DM is hell bent on saying you clanged off them, you still hold the charge
I think suggesting that the DM has zero agency in describing an attack as hitting and clanging off armor and shields is absolutely absurd, especially when it's 1 AC under the target's total AC. The fact that Name Violation is suggesting that no attacks with weapons will ever clang off armor and shields and every miss is a whiff even vs. FF AC is ridiculous rainbow unicorn garbage meant for small children.
And as for Touch Attacks hitting air molecules, rain, and being unusable underwater, that's equally absurd. This game isn't played in the vacuum of space. Go play Starfinder if you're going to be that ridiculous.
Wait, why is touching water ok? swimming litterally requires you to touch the water
also, according to the FAQ even if your DM is hell bent on saying you clanged off them, you still hold the charge
Just stop, guy. Your argument is positively preposterous.
And the FAQ confirms that if a Magus misses with the attack and clangs off the armor/shield, he has the option to discharge the spell through the weapon like a normal touch attack.
And the FAQ confirms that if a Magus misses with the attack and clangs off the armor/shield, he has the option to discharge the spell through the weapon like a normal touch attack.That's actually not what the FAQ says at all.
The FAQ says if your attack clangs off the armor you still have the charge held IN YOUR HAND.
There is no option to deliver the attack as a touch through the weapon as a touch attack at all.The FAQ says that you have to touch something other than a weapon with your HAND to discharge it as a touch attack.
Accidentally or intentionally.
FAQ: "Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook page 185)"
It literally says all he has to do is whack you with his weapon to deliver a touch spell. It doesn't change the normal rules for Touch Spells in combat other than deploying the spell via a melee weapon attack rather than a melee touch attack. The weapon is basically an extension of his hand.
If he touches you with the weapon, he has the option to let the charged spell in his hand discharge.
Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook page 185)
It doesn't change the normal rules for using Touch Spells in combat.
Touch Attacks
Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.
Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
The only difference is that a Magus has the option of doing a Touch Attack normally or using a weapon to deliver a Touch Attack.