Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) Wizards


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Blue_frog wrote:


(Drumroll)
The Spell Blending Wizard

I hope you'll enjoy it ;)

Yes I did. Notwithstanding the excellent work on the other guides I've read, this is the first one to actually make me want to consider a wizard.

Added it to my resources page.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.

That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of those things for Eschew Materials was a good and balanced trade is, frankly, a little bit scary tbh. It is what it is, though.

I'm pretty sure the incentive is supposed to be the super drain bonded item and eschew materials is an extra bonus. A Universalist should be focused on evergreen spells that you still want to cast well after they've been outscaled; using Command to make an enemy drop their weapon will always be good. Don't think I feel comfortable arguing this is better or equal to the Spell Blending Specialist, but it's sure not nothing.

Enhanced command (level 5) is ok, but in my opinion the regular one is pretty bad. No effect on a save is a dealbreaker, and even on a failed save you trade two actions for two actions, which is a crappy deal - unless it's a boss, who'll probably save.


SuperBidi wrote:
That's only true if your GM is nice enough to give you staves above your level. Otherwise, the highest level of spell you can cast with a staff is in general 2 levels behind the highest level you can cast.

Very good point. Staff Nexus does require high-level spells in the staff to work in both directions, and if the GM won't even allow it, there's definitely no reason to take the thesis. I do think it's worth pointing out in the Spell Blending guide that the problem is not with the thesis itself, but with the availability of staves with high-level spells usable by the character. (Which problem I actually ran into for my storm druid and forgot about!)

SuperBidi wrote:
As a side note, I strongly encourage GMs with a Staff Nexus Wizard to give him higher level staves. It won't imbalance the game at all (and anyway, if an issue arises, it will auto-correct itself in a few levels) but the Wizard player will just be crazy about his staff. In my opinion, Staff Nexus can be very nice and fulfilling with a GM generous when it comes to staves, but otherwise, I see it only as frustrating.

That would be lovely, but I won't count on it in considering a wizard build. :-P


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Blue_frog wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.

That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of those things for Eschew Materials was a good and balanced trade is, frankly, a little bit scary tbh. It is what it is, though.

I'm pretty sure the incentive is supposed to be the super drain bonded item and eschew materials is an extra bonus. A Universalist should be focused on evergreen spells that you still want to cast well after they've been outscaled; using Command to make an enemy drop their weapon will always be good. Don't think I feel comfortable arguing this is better or equal to the Spell Blending Specialist, but it's sure not nothing.
Enhanced command (level 5) is ok, but in my opinion the regular one is pretty bad. No effect on a save is a dealbreaker, and even on a failed save you trade two actions for two actions, which is a crappy deal - unless it's a boss, who'll probably save.

Forcing someone to drop prone is either a lot of damage or a serious debuff if you have AOO's in your party composition. It won't fit in all party comps, but I don't think its particularly bad for a 1st level slot in many cases.

A lot of spells - like Command and Fear - are great replacements for a Athletics or Intimidate specialist, if your party doesn't otherwise include those.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I hope I'm misunderstanding the rules (I always thought this thesis was cool but weak), but I feel like you are missing an important aspect of Spell Blending that will limit you to only one bonus spell slot of each level.

"Bonus spell slots must be of a level you can normally cast, and each bonus spell slot must be of a different spell level."

Is this a bad interpretation on my part?

Even so, how are you still ending up with 2 1st lvl slots, 2 2nd lvl, 5 3rd lvl and 6 4th lvl at level 7? It seems you only spent 2 slots from both 1st and 2nd lvl spells to create 1 3rd lvl slot and 2 4th lvl slots.

Grand Archive

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John R. wrote:

I hope I'm misunderstanding the rules (I always thought this thesis was cool but weak), but I feel like you are missing an important aspect of Spell Blending that will limit you to only one bonus spell slot of each level.

"Bonus spell slots must be of a level you can normally cast, and each bonus spell slot must be of a different spell level."

Is this a bad interpretation on my part?

Even so, how are you still ending up with 2 1st lvl slots, 2 2nd lvl, 5 3rd lvl and 6 4th lvl at level 7? It seems you only spent 2 slots from both 1st and 2nd lvl spells to create 1 3rd lvl slot and 2 4th lvl slots.

The extra 4th level slot is from Drain Bonded Item.


KrispyXIV wrote:
Blue_frog wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.

That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of those things for Eschew Materials was a good and balanced trade is, frankly, a little bit scary tbh. It is what it is, though.

I'm pretty sure the incentive is supposed to be the super drain bonded item and eschew materials is an extra bonus. A Universalist should be focused on evergreen spells that you still want to cast well after they've been outscaled; using Command to make an enemy drop their weapon will always be good. Don't think I feel comfortable arguing this is better or equal to the Spell Blending Specialist, but it's sure not nothing.
Enhanced command (level 5) is ok, but in my opinion the regular one is pretty bad. No effect on a save is a dealbreaker, and even on a failed save you trade two actions for two actions, which is a crappy deal - unless it's a boss, who'll probably save.

Forcing someone to drop prone is either a lot of damage or a serious debuff if you have AOO's in your party composition. It won't fit in all party comps, but I don't think its particularly bad for a 1st level slot in many cases.

A lot of spells - like Command and Fear - are great replacements for a Athletics or Intimidate specialist, if your party doesn't otherwise include those.

Prone IS indeed a big debuff but command is single target and no effect on save. That's painful and, unless you're all out of higher level slots (which a spell blender shouldn't be), a weak round for you. For me, low level slots are for utility.

It's also linguistic, which is a huge deal and prevents you from affecting a lot of opponents.

And the prone happens on the target's turn, which means unless you can abuse AOO, you won't be able to capitalize on it.

If I really wanted to inflict prone on a first level slot, at least gust of wind is multitarget and has a lot of utility.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:
John R. wrote:

I hope I'm misunderstanding the rules (I always thought this thesis was cool but weak), but I feel like you are missing an important aspect of Spell Blending that will limit you to only one bonus spell slot of each level.

"Bonus spell slots must be of a level you can normally cast, and each bonus spell slot must be of a different spell level."

Is this a bad interpretation on my part?

Even so, how are you still ending up with 2 1st lvl slots, 2 2nd lvl, 5 3rd lvl and 6 4th lvl at level 7? It seems you only spent 2 slots from both 1st and 2nd lvl spells to create 1 3rd lvl slot and 2 4th lvl slots.

The extra 4th level slot is from Drain Bonded Item.

Ah, that makes sense now. Thanks.


Nik Gervae wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
As a side note, I strongly encourage GMs with a Staff Nexus Wizard to give him higher level staves. It won't imbalance the game at all (and anyway, if an issue arises, it will auto-correct itself in a few levels) but the Wizard player will just be crazy about his staff. In my opinion, Staff Nexus can be very nice and fulfilling with a GM generous when it comes to staves, but otherwise, I see it only as frustrating.
That would be lovely, but I won't count on it in considering a wizard build. :-P

I see what you mean but I find it's the kind of information that is lacking in many guides. There is no "classical" game experience. Sometimes, it's important to say that some builds are more or less valid depending on your GM/campaign. For example, the Spell Blender is mostly useless if you have short adventuring days. What's the point of having tons of high level spells if you just go through 2 fights a day on average?

Many options give different results depending on the DM. In my opinion, Staff Nexus is close to useless without a generous GM when it comes to staves but it's one of the best Thesis if you can grab higher level staves. Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones. Spell Substitution gets crazy good if you alternate between very different types of encounters in a single day (like if you start the day at the king's court, the afternoon investigating a mystery and the evening in a dark lair) but is way weaker if you just explore dungeons. Familiar Thesis depends a lot on what your DM will allow you to do with a Familiar and can become crazy good if you have an Alchemist in the party.


With regard to blending specialist slots, in case of contention, I'd say that a reasonable compromise would be to say sure, you can blend a specialist slot, but then the resulting slot should of course also be restricted to a spell of your chosen school. If you bring this up with Paizo, it might be worth pointing out. In any case, it's a clear gap in the rules that needs to be addressed.


SuperBidi wrote:
Nik Gervae wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
As a side note, I strongly encourage GMs with a Staff Nexus Wizard to give him higher level staves. It won't imbalance the game at all (and anyway, if an issue arises, it will auto-correct itself in a few levels) but the Wizard player will just be crazy about his staff. In my opinion, Staff Nexus can be very nice and fulfilling with a GM generous when it comes to staves, but otherwise, I see it only as frustrating.
That would be lovely, but I won't count on it in considering a wizard build. :-P
I see what you mean but I find it's the kind of information that is lacking in many guides. There is no "classical" game experience. Sometimes, it's important to say that some builds are more or less valid depending on your GM/campaign. For example, the Spell Blender is mostly useless if you have short adventuring days. What's the point of having tons of high level spells if you just go through 2 fights a day on average?

Yes, that's the sort of consideration I tried to point out when I first commented on Staff Nexus. In the right context—at mid-high levels, with good access to staves—it's amazing, otherwise, as you said, "frustrating". BlueFrog just said it's unconditionally lousy. :-)

SuperBidi wrote:
Many options give different results depending on the DM. In my opinion, Staff Nexus is close to useless without a generous GM when it comes to staves but it's one of the best Thesis if you can grab higher level staves. Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones. Spell Substitution gets crazy good if you alternate between very different types of encounters in a single day (like if you start the day at the king's court, the afternoon investigating a mystery and the evening in a dark lair) but is way weaker if you just explore dungeons. Familiar Thesis depends a lot on what your DM will allow you to do with a Familiar and can become crazy good if you have an Alchemist in the party.

It really is asking for trouble to design a character out of the context of your GM, campaign, and fellow players. I like all the theses except for Metamagical Experimentation, and might be interested in trying them all—if creating a character in Pathfinder 2 weren't so involved!


This guide really made me want to dig into the Wizard class more. I look forward to updates, especially on dedications that blend well with Spell Blending. Even without that, I started cranking up a build using Halcyon Speaker Dedication for even more spells and slots, from every tradition. I'm going for lots of spells and slots, heavy magical crafting, some skill versatility, and a little low-society involvement. Most of my questions lie outside the issue of spell blending, of course, but you might be interested in where I'm heading. The build has some halcyon spell picks, more or less off the cuff based on what looks interesting/effective, so I'd love your thoughts on those and other choices.

Then too, you gotta wonder if halcyon spell slots can be blended....


SuperBidi wrote:


Many options give different results depending on the DM. In my opinion, Staff Nexus is close to useless without a generous GM when it comes to staves but it's one of the best Thesis if you can grab higher level staves. Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones. Spell Substitution gets crazy good if you alternate between very different types of encounters in a single day (like if you start the day at the king's court, the afternoon investigating a mystery and the evening in a dark lair) but is way weaker if you just explore dungeons. Familiar Thesis depends a lot on what your DM will allow you to do with a Familiar and can become crazy good if you have an Alchemist in the party.

Well, i'm still not sold on Staff Nexus. I mean, giving higher level staves to Staff Nexus wizards isn't something you can count on and it's actually against the balance of the game, which takes into account that you usually have items of your level or less. If you give a higher staff to your wizard, then why don't you give higher runes to your martials ? It's homebrew, so it's not something I adress in the guide.

Anyway, staves cap at 6th level so even with a very lenient GM that gives you a level 14 staff when you're level 11, you'll still lose a lot of steam in the higher levels.

Notice I didn't put it red but orange, it's still better than Metamagical Experimentation, it's just... well, worse than the two better options, and "ask your GM if he can give you better loot than the other players so you will possibly be a little bit less bad" won't push it into green territory ^^

As for Familiar Thesis, I put it orange as well because a familiar in itself is great - but you can get it through feats and in my opinion, either saving on feats or getting more abilities isn't enough to redeem the poor chassis you have. It's nowhere near the power jump you can get with Spell Blending.

As for "Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones", I disagree. If you have short adventuring days, the fights should be meaningful (if they're not and every day in your campaign is two short, easy fights, you should question the balance of the module). In those meaningful fights, a spell blender can throw a top level slot EVERY SINGLE ROUND. That's actually gamebreaking and can turn a very rough encounter into a cakewalk.


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Blue_frog wrote:
Well, i'm still not sold on Staff Nexus. I mean, giving higher level staves to Staff Nexus wizards isn't something you can count on and it's actually against the balance of the game, which takes into account that you usually have items of your level or less. If you give a higher staff to your wizard, then why don't you give higher runes to your martials ? It's homebrew, so it's not something I adress in the guide.

Yes and no. Yes, there are guidelines but even Paizo don't follow them. So, having a whole campaign where higher level equipment is common is not something that "shouldn't exist". It happens, and if it happens, it's good to know it gives some oomph to specific builds.

As a matter of fact, I will do that for my Extinction Curse game as I have players who are not much into tactical combat. So I'll have to improve the power of the party. I thought about giving an extra level, but it's visible by just calculating the XP budget of encounters or reading the backcover that says "level 1-4 adventurers". I find that giving extra equipment has roughly the same effect but is way more rewarding as players may not realize the DM is helping them.

Blue_frog wrote:
As for "Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones", I disagree. If you have short adventuring days, the fights should be meaningful (if they're not and every day in your campaign is two short, easy fights, you should question the balance of the module). In those meaningful fights, a spell blender can throw a top level slot EVERY SINGLE ROUND. That's actually gamebreaking and can turn a very rough encounter into a cakewalk.

I don't play a Spell Blender in PFS for this exact same reason: There are in general few fights a day and they are not especially tough. And if you have 2 fights a day, any Wizard can throw a top level slot every single round.

Also, I disagree with "If you have short adventuring days, the fights should be meaningful". Different GMs, different players, different expectations. I also consider Spell Blending to be by far the best Thesis for Paizo's APs. But there are other types of campaigns where it just doesn't fit that well.


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So I got done reading the meat an potatoes of the guide, while I agree with a decent amount, I do have a couple points of contention:

With my experience with universalists, while I absolutely agree bond conversion is oversold, the universalist itself is not so horrible that taking it cripples your character. In effect, you basically end up playing like a combo of a sorcerer and a wizard trading away a bit of breadth in you casting options in exchange for tactical flexibility. It's not as good as a specialist most of the time imo, but certainly not "you're gonna suck if you take it". Worth a note though, don't take universalist with spell blending, but it does play pretty nice with the other thesis options.

Imo, staff nexus is actually as good as substitution, if you pick a staff with a decent amount of helpful silver bullet spells or one's that dont lose utility. Not having to spend 10 minutes to swap can be a life saver when you need that illusory distraction or extra true seeing in the middle of battle.

Grand Archive

While the metamagic thesis is also the lowest on my list, I think that each of the thesis can be good if you build based upon it. While they may not give you the raw power of spell blending, they can at least be good and/or fun.

Familiar can build into Familiar Master.

Staff Nexus is the interesting one to me for theory crafting.

It could make for a very interesting healer wizard. Get witch ded for divine spells, pick up a staff of healing/greater staff of healing, sack higher level slot(s) for more healing spells.

I could also see a possible gish option for the staff nexus. True strike for days + bespell weapon.

Again, if your goal is power, go Spell Blending. But, if want more depth, look at the possible synergies to be had with the other thesis.


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Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:

While the metamagic thesis is also the lowest on my list, I think that each of the thesis can be good if you build based upon it. While they may not give you the raw power of spell blending, they can at least be good and/or fun.

Familiar can build into Familiar Master.

Staff Nexus is the interesting one to me for theory crafting.

It could make for a very interesting healer wizard. Get witch ded for divine spells, pick up a staff of healing/greater staff of healing, sack higher level slot(s) for more healing spells.

I could also see a possible gish option for the staff nexus. True strike for days + bespell weapon.

Again, if your goal is power, go Spell Blending. But, if want more depth, look at the possible synergies to be had with the other thesis.

Staff nexus is honestly just really good if you're clever. Use it with a staff of divination and basically never have to prepare the staples; you just use your staff for the one you need. Staff of illusion has a lot of spells that stay useful your whole life; illusory object, even the 1st level one, is always helpful.

I never thought of using it to get more slots on a caster dedication, but thats an awesome af idea.

Grand Archive

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Yeah, the requirements are that you have to be able to cast spells of that level, and have access to them via a tradition list. Thus, even only getting the base dedication on any divine tradition class would allow a wizard to use staves of healing.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

Arcane Thesis

Source Core Rulebook pg. 205 2.0
During your studies to become a full-fledged wizard, you produced a thesis of unique magical research on one of a variety of topics. You gain a special benefit depending on the topic of your thesis research. The arcane thesis topics presented in this book are below; your specific thesis probably has a much longer and more technical title like “On the Methods of Spell Interpolation and the Genesis of a New Understanding of the Building Blocks of Magic.
Quote:

Spell Blending

Source Core Rulebook pg. 206 2.0
You theorize that spell slots are a shorthand for an underlying energy that powers all spellcasting, and you’ve found a way to tinker with the hierarchy of spell slots, combining them to fuel more powerful spells. When you make your daily preparations, you can trade two spell slots of the same level for a bonus spell slot of up to 2 levels higher than the traded spell slots. You can exchange as many spell slots as you have available. Bonus spell slots must be of a level you can normally cast, and each bonus spell slot must be of a different spell level. You can also trade any spell slot for two additional cantrips, though you cannot trade more than one spell slot at a time for additional cantrips in this way.
Quote:

Daily Preparations

Source Core Rulebook pg. 500 2.0
Just before setting out to explore, or after a night’s rest, the PCs spend time to prepare for the adventuring day. This typically happens over the span of 30 minutes to an hour in the morning, but only after 8 full hours of rest. Daily preparations include the following.
Spellcasters who prepare spells choose which spells they’ll have available that day.
Focus Points and other abilities that reset during daily preparations refresh. This includes abilities that can be used only a certain number of times per day.
Each character equips their gear. This includes donning their armor and strapping on their weapons.
Characters invest up to 10 worn magic items to gain their benefits for the day (page 531).

Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype.


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Alchemic_Genius wrote:
Staff nexus is honestly just really good if you're clever. Use it with a staff of divination and basically never have to prepare the staples; you just use your staff for the one you need. Staff of illusion has a lot of spells that stay useful your whole life; illusory object, even the 1st level one, is always helpful.

That has nothing to do with Staff Nexus, but with basic staves that all Wizards can use. Unless you need to cast more than a dozen of these low level staples, Staff Nexus is useless. Staff Nexus, Metamagic Mastery and Familiar Attunement are the mostly useless Theses because they give you more of something you already have in great quantity.


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Now finished reading both this guide and Principia Arcana: A Foundation In the Unknown. I like both guides, but what a difference in opinions about both Spell Blending and Bond Conservation.

Edit: Actually, I should say what a difference in opinions about most of the Arcane Theses.


The Raven Black wrote:

Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype.

So I could combine two of my low-level Wizard prepared slots for a higher-level spontaneous Halcyon Spellcaster slot, or vice-versa? Shut up and take my money!

Something about blending a school-specialization slot into a general slot still seems a bit hinky, but like you point out, the rules are silent about it, and you'd really think they might have thought about this. Then again, Control Water....


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Two little things I haven't seen much in the guide and could be worth at least getting your opinion on.

You say that Blending doesn't give you anything until level 5, but there is technically the possibility of splitting a slot into cantrips. While it's not a power gain, it can be a versatility gain - and especially early on, when your slots are crazy rare and your cantrips are roughly equal, two at-will spells might help you stay relevant more than one single-use spell. Expanded cantrips is a lv4 feat, and even familiars only show up at lv2. You could easily have 2 spells (like other casters) and 7 cantrips, or 9 cantrips and 3 spells at lv2 with a familiar.

At the same time, you sell spell blending as a high-power choice (and you're right), but you can convert that power into flexibility by funneling one of your many high level slots into a staff. As you are fond of saying, you have plenty of high level slots. That does not necessarily reduce your options. Who needs staff nexus when you have blended slots to burn?

Second, you've highlighted incapacitation as a potential downside. What about area incapacitations like Colour Spray, Sleep or Vibrant Pattern? Your allies benefit from incapacitation just as much as monsters, a wizard should be able to use that to his advantage.


The Raven Black wrote:

[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype

Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.

Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how Stinking Cloud works and people have at least three different interpretations of the wording. It's not as important, but my take is that talking about things like this make the game much smoother in the long run.

I guess it's different in PFS where things are much more by the book, but then I never played PFS so I cannot testify about it ;)

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Now finished reading both this guide and Principia Arcana: A Foundation In the Unknown. I like both guides, but what a difference in opinions about both Spell Blending and Bond Conservation.

Edit: Actually, I should say what a difference in opinions about most of the Arcane Theses.

That's the beauty of roleplaying games, we all have different opinions and ways to play our characters. Actually, one of the reasons I started this guide was that I disagreed with a lot of what was posted on other ones. Does that make them bad ? No, it's just a different way to play. Hence the name of this guide, because it's hideously biased ^^

We have a somewhat competitive group where people actually try to minmax things. Not to the point of being argumentative or stack a ridiculous amount of shenanigans, but enough to feel powerful and cohesive, and be effective as a group. We actually choose our classes all together (as long as everyone's happy with their choice, of course) so that most roles are covered and it runs smoothly. That's a luxury PFS players cannot afford since they don't know who they'll be playing with.

This means our GM usually tries to challenge us with tough encounters and back to back action - that's where my obsession for "effect on a save" comes from, and that's where the Spell Blender really shines.

If your group is much more relaxed, like SuperBidi (I think it was him) said, then other thesis become more interesting. If you don't have to push yourself to the limit, getting a better familiar for roleplaying reasons suddenly becomes an option. What it does not do, however, is make you as powerful in a fight as a spell blender.

Also, there's one thing I just cannot wrap my head around in the guide you linked. I just cannot understand how someone, anyone, could say that Metamagical Experimentation is the best thesis.


Ediwir wrote:

Two little things I haven't seen much in the guide and could be worth at least getting your opinion on.

You say that Blending doesn't give you anything until level 5, but there is technically the possibility of splitting a slot into cantrips. While it's not a power gain, it can be a versatility gain - and especially early on, when your slots are crazy rare and your cantrips are roughly equal, two at-will spells might help you stay relevant more than one single-use spell. Expanded cantrips is a lv4 feat, and even familiars only show up at lv2. You could easily have 2 spells (like other casters) and 7 cantrips, or 9 cantrips and 3 spells at lv2 with a familiar.

At the same time, you sell spell blending as a high-power choice (and you're right), but you can convert that power into flexibility by funneling one of your many high level slots into a staff. As you are fond of saying, you have plenty of high level slots. That does not necessarily reduce your options. Who needs staff nexus when you have blended slots to burn?

Second, you've highlighted incapacitation as a potential downside. What about area incapacitations like Colour Spray, Sleep or Vibrant Pattern? Your allies benefit from incapacitation just as much as monsters, a wizard should be able to use that to his advantage.

I agree that cantrips can be powerful in the right circumnstances but usually I make do with those I get - especially since Electric Arc is the end all, be all of damage cantrips, that leaves a lot of space for utility. But at higher level, that can be a valid choice indeed.

I'm all for using a staff, all my mages use one - which is another thing against spell nexus. Everyone can do what they do, it's just that they can do it more often per day. But every mage can get a staff to supplement his casting, get a free charge every day AND charge it once more to boost. Unless you find yourself in a situation where you absolutely have to cast 10 times what's in your staff (and then why didn't you prep the spell), it's more than enough for your daily divination/abjuration/whatever needs.

As for incapacitation, it's a good point that your friends will get one better on their save, but since you're a prepared caster, you'll have to choose in which slot you will cast it when you choose your spells, and that's not very flexible: if you use your highest level slot, your friends won't get a bonus (you're level 11/12 using a level 6 slot) and if you use one lower (you're level 11/12 using a level 5 slot), you're effectively only able to use it against level -1 or - 2 mooks. Even when you're not metagaming, it's usually easy to see when a monster is a boss/above your level, but it's pretty hard to know whether these three giants are at your level, level-1 or -2. So it has its uses, but I'm not sold on it.


Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:
Yeah, the requirements are that you have to be able to cast spells of that level, and have access to them via a tradition list. Thus, even only getting the base dedication on any divine tradition class would allow a wizard to use staves of healing.

Well I asked the very same question on the rules forum a month ago and, again, there seems to be no consensus on this :/

Liberty's Edge

Blue_frog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype

Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.

Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how Stinking Cloud works and people have at least three different interpretations of the wording. It's not as important, but my take is that talking about things like this make the game much smoother in the long run.

I guess it's different in PFS where things are much more by the book, but then I never played PFS so I cannot testify about it ;)

I am also for talking with the GM before character creation to know their thoughts and houserules beforehand.

I hope though in the name of consistency that your GM also forbids (or puts similar limits on) using Specialist slots for Spell substitution or expending a slot to power a staff, for example.

For PFS, GMs usually follow the RAW as much as they can. But if their take is different from yours, of course they have the final word. So even more important to check with them first and plan for the worst case answer. Any surprise can only be pleasant then ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Nik Gervae wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype.

So I could combine two of my low-level Wizard prepared slots for a higher-level spontaneous Halcyon Spellcaster slot, or vice-versa? Shut up and take my money!

Something about blending a school-specialization slot into a general slot still seems a bit hinky, but like you point out, the rules are silent about it, and you'd really think they might have thought about this. Then again, Control Water....

It seems so, though you cannot use it to magically gain access to a higher level halcyon slot than what you already had. And you still cannot have more than one bonus slot per spell level, no matter where you put them.

Note though that unless you already had access to Spontaneous casting (likely through multiclassing in Arcane or Primal Sorcerer), you do not magically get some for your halcyon spells.

I thought that it was possible too but I just rechecked AoN and I see nothing about it.

Grand Archive

Blue_frog wrote:
Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:
Yeah, the requirements are that you have to be able to cast spells of that level, and have access to them via a tradition list. Thus, even only getting the base dedication on any divine tradition class would allow a wizard to use staves of healing.
Well I asked the very same question on the rules forum a month ago and, again, there seems to be no consensus on this :/

Really? It seems pretty straight forward:

CRB 592 wrote:
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.

1) You have to 'have that spell on your list'.

CRB 219 wrote:
A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can.

2) You have to be 'able to cast spells of the appropr.iate level'.

It does not specify that the spells have to be of the same tradition. In fact, it seems that, if that was intended, they would have used less words and said something like "...only if you can cast that spell at that level." It does not have that or similar wording, so it even seems intended for this to work. The second stipulation seems to be intended to prevent the wielder from casting spells of a level they don't have access to (i.e. a 4th level wizard trying to cast a Fireball from a staff).

Consensus or not, the rules clearly state it so..


Blue_frog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype

Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.

{. . .}

I am not going to pretend to be an Expert at this (not even really Trained yet), but my inclination would be that you can trade specialist slots, but the up-traded spell must be of the same Arcane School as the specialist slot. Likewise, my inclination for trading slots gained from an archetype would be that the up-traded slots must be of the same Spellcasting Tradition as the traded-out spell slots or must be used to prepare a spell that is available in both Spellcasting Traditions.


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I don't think there's anything in the rules that suggests "if you bled a specialist slot with another slot, you get a higher level specialist slot" but it seems like a fair compromise. After all, if you're an evoker (for e.g.) you're in the fireball (etc.) business, so "another top level slot, but you have to put an evocation spell in it" isn't a huge burden.

Liberty's Edge

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Blue_frog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype

Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.

{. . .}

I am not going to pretend to be an Expert at this (not even really Trained yet), but my inclination would be that you can trade specialist slots, but the up-traded spell must be of the same Arcane School as the specialist slot. Likewise, my inclination for trading slots gained from an archetype would be that the up-traded slots must be of the same Spellcasting Tradition as the traded-out spell slots or must be used to prepare a spell that is available in both Spellcasting Traditions.

Would you only allow Spell Substitution to work for spells of the same school if it was used on a Specialist's extra slot?

Would you only allow casters to expend spell slots to charge a staff if they were of the same tradition (or even the same school for a Specialist's extra slot) as the staff's spells?


The Raven Black wrote:
Nik Gervae wrote:

So I could combine two of my low-level Wizard prepared slots for a higher-level spontaneous Halcyon Spellcaster slot, or vice-versa? Shut up and take my money!

Something about blending a school-specialization slot into a general slot still seems a bit hinky, but like you point out, the rules are silent about it, and you'd really think they might have thought about this. Then again, Control Water....

It seems so, though you cannot use it to magically gain access to a higher level halcyon slot than what you already had. And you still cannot have more than one bonus slot per spell level, no matter where you put them.

The first point is understood; you can't get a slot of a level higher than your highest in any other context, as far as I know. I'm not sure what you mean by a bonus slot: is that a specialist slot, a blended slot, or a dedication slot? if it's a blended slot, then yeah, again that's part of the thesis.

The Raven Black wrote:
Note though that unless you already had access to Spontaneous casting (likely through multiclassing in Arcane or Primal Sorcerer), you do not magically get some for your halcyon spells.

But halcyon spell slots are spontaneous; from the feat description: "You can use your halcyon spell slots to spontaneously cast your halcyon spells." This does directly contradict the text describing halcyon spells, however: "Halcyon spells are prepared or cast just like other spells granted by your class; for example, a wizard who gained halcyon spells would add them to their spell list and their spellbook, while a sorcerer would add them to their spell list and their spell repertoire." So, it's not clear to me how halcyon spells work for a wizard; you have to take one of these rules or the other. I've asked about this in the Rules Discussion subforum.


Blue_frog wrote:
We have a somewhat competitive group where people actually try to minmax things. Not to the point of being argumentative or stack a ridiculous amount of shenanigans, but enough to feel powerful and cohesive, and be effective as a group. We actually choose our classes all together (as long as everyone's happy with their choice, of course) so that most roles are covered and it runs smoothly. That's a luxury PFS players cannot afford since they don't know who they'll be playing with.

Rather off-topic, but how can I find a group like yours? :-) I'm honestly jealous and impressed to hear that.

I'm not a super power-gamer, but I try to do my best with the options available. It kind of kills my motivation to play with people who've obviously given little thought to spell selections, tactics, and the like, and don't even care to discuss it. My ideal group would start with at minimum one full session where we plan our character builds together and discuss how we might work together, rather than just jumping in with our isolated creations. You couldn't pay me to play PFS if it's really just organized pick-up groups of random people.

Anyhow, like I said it's off-topic, except I don't see ever getting a chance to try a spell blending wizard as things are, and I needed to vent a little frustration. I think you're in a lucky situation to be sure.

Liberty's Edge

Nik Gervae wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Nik Gervae wrote:

So I could combine two of my low-level Wizard prepared slots for a higher-level spontaneous Halcyon Spellcaster slot, or vice-versa? Shut up and take my money!

Something about blending a school-specialization slot into a general slot still seems a bit hinky, but like you point out, the rules are silent about it, and you'd really think they might have thought about this. Then again, Control Water....

It seems so, though you cannot use it to magically gain access to a higher level halcyon slot than what you already had. And you still cannot have more than one bonus slot per spell level, no matter where you put them.

The first point is understood; you can't get a slot of a level higher than your highest in any other context, as far as I know. I'm not sure what you mean by a bonus slot: is that a specialist slot, a blended slot, or a dedication slot? if it's a blended slot, then yeah, again that's part of the thesis.

The Raven Black wrote:
Note though that unless you already had access to Spontaneous casting (likely through multiclassing in Arcane or Primal Sorcerer), you do not magically get some for your halcyon spells.
But halcyon spell slots are spontaneous; from the feat description: "You can use your halcyon spell slots to spontaneously cast your halcyon spells." This does directly contradict the text describing halcyon spells, however: "Halcyon spells are prepared or cast just like other spells granted by your class; for example, a wizard who gained halcyon spells would add them to their spell list and their spellbook, while a sorcerer would add them to their spell list and their spell repertoire." So, it's not clear to me how halcyon spells work for a wizard; you have to take one of these rules or the other. I've asked about this in the Rules Discussion subforum.

Yes on both accounts. I do not know how I missed the Spontaneous slot in the Halcyon Speaker archetype when I was specifically looking for it.

Way I read it, specific (Halcyon Speaker dedication feat) trumps general (Halcyon spells). So, you add halcyon spells to those you can cast through your Class (and/or Arcane / Primal MCD) AND you get a spell slot to spontaneously cast them, even if you are a prepared caster.


The Raven Black wrote:

Yes on both accounts. I do not know how I missed the Spontaneous slot in the Halcyon Speaker archetype when I was specifically looking for it.

Way I read it, specific (Halcyon Speaker dedication feat) trumps general (Halcyon spells). So, you add halcyon spells to those you can cast through your Class (and/or Arcane / Primal MCD) AND you get a spell slot to spontaneously cast them, even if you are a prepared caster.

Ah, I see now. I think we both missed a key phrase! The previous sentence does in fact explicitly state: "In addition to being able to cast your halcyon spells via your arcane or primal spell slots, you also gain a 1st-level halcyon spell slot."

I'm not sure how often you'd care to prepare a spell you can cast spontaneously anyhow, but more versatility sure doesn't hurt.

Liberty's Edge

Nik Gervae wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Yes on both accounts. I do not know how I missed the Spontaneous slot in the Halcyon Speaker archetype when I was specifically looking for it.

Way I read it, specific (Halcyon Speaker dedication feat) trumps general (Halcyon spells). So, you add halcyon spells to those you can cast through your Class (and/or Arcane / Primal MCD) AND you get a spell slot to spontaneously cast them, even if you are a prepared caster.

Ah, I see now. I think we both missed a key phrase! The previous sentence does in fact explicitly state: "In addition to being able to cast your halcyon spells via your arcane or primal spell slots, you also gain a 1st-level halcyon spell slot."

I'm not sure how often you'd care to prepare a spell you can cast spontaneously anyhow, but more versatility sure doesn't hurt.

I see it the other way around : you prepare the adequate spells, including halcyon spells if relevant. And you're happy to spontaneously cast one of your halcyon spells in your halcyon slot if need be.

Note that I believe that as a prepared (and non-Spontaneous) caster, you know your halcyon spells at all levels as far as heightening is concerned, and thus can cast it heightened spontaneously too.

But I agree that the description of halcyon spells for spontaenous casters is not clear on whether you have to choose them at a specific level or you know them at all levels automatically.


The Raven Black wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
Blue_frog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.

And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.

Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype

Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.

{. . .}

I am not going to pretend to be an Expert at this (not even really Trained yet), but my inclination would be that you can trade specialist slots, but the up-traded spell must be of the same Arcane School as the specialist slot. Likewise, my inclination for trading slots gained from an archetype would be that the up-traded slots must be of the same Spellcasting Tradition as the traded-out spell slots or must be used to prepare a spell that is available in both Spellcasting Traditions.

Would you only allow Spell Substitution to work for spells of the same school if it was used on a Specialist's extra slot?

Surprisingly, the rules don't seem to say this explicitly (unless it is hidden in some weird place), but it certainly seems highly reasonable.

The Raven Black wrote:
Would you only allow casters to expend spell slots to charge a staff if they were of the same tradition (or even the same school for a Specialist's extra slot) as the staff's spells?
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.

Pathfinder 2nd Edition explicitly seems to make Staves less versatile even as it makes them easier to recharge, compared to Pathfinder 1st Edition, so I would say yes to your second question. Although I could have sworn to having seen something about something like "Trick Magic Device" that might let you get around that, but now I can't find it.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Would you only allow casters to expend spell slots to charge a staff if they were of the same tradition (or even the same school for a Specialist's extra slot) as the staff's spells?

Surprisingly, the rules don't seem to say this explicitly (unless it is hidden in some weird place), but it certainly seems highly reasonable.

Yeah, the only thing I've found the rules say about specialist slots is: "You can prepare only spells of your chosen arcane school in these extra slots." It says nothing about what you do with those slots once you've prepared a spell in them. It might be an oversight, but as the rules are now, it's pretty clear you can dump a specialist slot into a staff to charge it up, regardless of the tradition the staff's spells are from.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Is this a reasonable first level spell blender?

Wizkid
Male human enchanter 1 Advanced Player's Guide, Lost Omens Gods & Magic
NG, Medium, Human, Humanoid
Perception +4
Languages Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, Halfling
Skills Acrobatics +6, Arcana +7, Crafting +7, Diplomacy +3, Dragon Lore +7, Medicine +4, Nature +4, Occultism +7, Religion +4, Society +7, Stealth +6, Survival +4, Thievery +6
Str 10 (+0), Dex 16 (+3), Con 12 (+1), Int 18 (+4), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Other Items explorer’s clothing, dagger, backpack, bandolier, basic crafter's book, bedroll, belt pouch, belt pouch, chalks (10), enchantments and things, extra ink and paper writing set, flint and steel, healer's tools, material component pouch, ordinary clothing, rations (1 week)s (2), replacement picks thieves' toolss (2), rope (foot)s (50), soap, thieves' tools, torchs (5), waterskin, writing set, purse (4 gp; 5 sp; 10 cp)
--------------------
AC 16; Fort +4; Ref +6; Will +6
HP 15 Focus Points 1 Hero Points 1
--------------------
Speed 25 feet
Melee [1] dagger +6 (versatile Slsh, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 Pier
Ranged [1] dagger +6 (versatile Slsh, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4 Pier
Arcane Wizard Spells DC 17; 1st fear, fear, mage armor Cantrips (1st) daze, detect magic, ghost sound, light, mage hand, shield
Focus Spells 1 Focus Point, DC 17; 1st Charming Words
Feats Natural Skill, Skill Training
Other Abilities arcane bond, arcane schools, arcane spellcasting, arcane thesis, drain bonded item, enchantment, spell blending, spellbook
--------------------
This is a test character. Do these notes get printed on the character sheet?

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at https://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc., and are used under license.

Side note: not sure I see how to swap the slots in HLO.

Grand Archive

Looks good.

Curiosity: What are your plans for the character's actions after they have cast their 3 1st level spells for the day? (Mage armor factored in)


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I would expect he'll mostly use his cantrips in whatever situations look appropriate. I thought about giving him a crossbow, but that just seems a bit stereotypical. Besides, they're expensive! :-)

I may try pushing him up to second level tomorrow to see how the spell blending might work.


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For a 1st or 2nd level Spell Blending Wizard (especially if also a Specialist), I wonder if it might be a good idea to go ahead and take the option to split a 1st level spell into 2 Cantrips, to give yourself more flexibility in the latter, and just accepting that you aren't going to get very much out of your 1st level spells.


That'd depend on how much you're using that versatility, I suppose. The lack of diversity in a wizard's toolkit at low levels is coupled with a lack of diversity in monsters; not much reason to leave the electric arc routine if you're only fighting humanoid warriors with no special weaknesses or resistances.


Depends on how much you can get out of those utility cantrips, I'd say. You've already got 6 cantrips ready as a specialist, though, so I'm doubtful it's worth dropping a 1st-level spell.

I was speccing out a full 1–20 build but got mired in whether to take all the Crafting feats for magic items and put it aside. I've seen a number of arguments on the forums that Crafting isn't worth the bother, except to repair gear.

Hey Blue_frog, do you plan to add anything on recommended halcyon spell picks for primarily arcane or primarily primal caster? Nothing prevents divine & occult spellcasters from taking the dedication either, of course; they just need training in Arcana or Nature....


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

@Ed Reppert, my only concern is that your enchanter might be a little too specialized into emotion and mental spells, to the point that you don't really have anything to do at all against a creature that isn't susceptible to those effects. I like daze as a cantrip for its long range and brutal crit effect, but not having another damage option than mental could leave you feeling useless in many encounters. I'd highly recommend doing something to have electric arc on your prepared list, probably at the cost of ghost sound.

I don't know your GM, or what they allow, but ghost sound is a verbal component spell that is very, very difficult to make much use out of without combining with either ventriloquism or conceal spell. There are few sounds you can make appear behind an enemy that will feel less dangerous than the obvious threat of a caster in front of them.

Once you hit level 3 or 4, and you already have conceal spell or eventually silent spell (which you should definitely be headed for as an enchanter) then switching back over to ghost sound is going to be a lot more rewarding.


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Ed Reppert wrote:

Is this a reasonable first level spell blender?

In my opinion, you are avoiding damage too much. Passing on Electric Arc, considering the number of characters who pay a feat to get it, is a luxury you can't afford. Level 1 Wizards are weak and Electric Arc will be your bread and butter spell.

Also, your first level spells are... meh. Fear is not very interesting at low level, it is strong at high level because it's an evergreen (its power never goes down). Having 2 of them is overkill. Mage Armor could fit into a build with enough spell power, which is not the case of a level 1 Wizard. Unless you expect to be attacked a lot, it's better to fit an offensive spell in there.
Magic Missile and Magic Weapon are the 2 potent first level spells for a Wizard. Magic Weapon is really great if you have a 2-hander in your party and Magic Missile is a boss killer at a level where bosses are PC killers.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Hm. Good points. I’ll take another look.


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Another option for a first level human wizard is to use the human feat to take light armor proficiency. This will get your AC to 18 without having to cast mage armor. At higher level you can retrain out of it to take something else


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

That whole "retrain out of stuff" thing seems way too meta-gamey for me.

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