Are the level 8 biohacker theorms kinda meh?


General Discussion


Arms expert: Is functionally two feats. Longarm proficiency and specialization long arms. One of those you kinda have build into the class already. If you're going longarms though, why wait till level 8 for this? If you're going small arms, it's one of the few ways to get full level specialization, but it comes online when longarm damage dice are about to rocket away from small arm damage dice. You'd want to take weapon focus in longarms anyway way before this, not waste a feat with versatile specilization. which would make the trade one feat for 1 class ability, class abilities are usually better)

Far Injection: I can do most of that with a scope. Not when full attacking, but it gets you more than double the range.

Improved Tread condition: Frightened and nauseated. While the auto clear is nice, I can use medication mastery (or just buy) an antiemetic to give a reroll with a good bonus vs nausea and a sedative for frightened.

Powerful Biohacks: If you're going toxicology i think you have to take this. But it;s a rare biohacker ability that doesn't run into a backdoor ban on it not working. (such as undead not taking subdual damage or needing fort saves at all in addition to their poison immunity)

Stable Biohacks: Might be good if your operative is willing to use a caustoject. Not sure who elses action besides yours would best be spent removing conditions. If you need conditions off of yourself, buy some medicine off the shelf and hand it out.

Tranq dart: Requires a living creature in addition to being a poison effect. So a lot of creatures will be immune and its only once per day. Its either not going to work or make your boss fight anti climactic once in a blue moon.


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Several years later. Does this feel different for biohackers?

Arms expert I still love as it opens up a lot of weapon combos. Which feels valuable with how restricted you are weapon wise and narritve control wise (biohacks are renwable if your group stops often enouugh for a 10min rest)

Any of the new ones stand for more interesting?
Far injection I still like but objectively speaking there is now damaging sniper injection weapons. So I'd rather get Arms Expert and rock a sniper + retractable stinger and an injection pistol much of the time. but the weapon switching makes me feel like I can do more so its biased.

How about with these and interactions with the new Alt Clas sonic feature?
I really wish they had included Heavy in that choice but they didn't. But you still get access to things that I really wish more injection weapons had. Automatic, Blast, boosts, Penetrating, Breaching etc. Even throwing based, and Garrote for grappling and the like
interesting properties that make you feel like you interact with the world more.
Actually I'd love arms expert if it allowed you to increase choices even if limited. Like a custom single gun.


Nope.

I really have to struggle to find a reason not to just dip biohacker. Especially with the vial of gunk paradigm limiting the medication mastery options to KAC weapons.


Vital of gunk paradigm?

Is that related to that faq on the acid injection weapons?

Diping is interesting. Never sure which to go by though.


Zwordsman wrote:

Vital of gunk paradigm?

Is that related to that faq on the acid injection weapons? [/b]

yeah, it comes down to "what the heck is a biohack?" which has been asked repeatedly but not answered directly . if it acts like a vial of gunk (as the faq strongly implies) then it would come back with a conserving fusion. But the problem is it won't damage when used wit the caustolance, you can't add a biohack and a healing serum together to automatically hit your allies (or in short, you have zero advantage with a caustoject than a soldier to use a healing serum on your allies)

Quote:
Diping is interesting. Never sure which to go by though.

I have an operative and a skill monkey mystic. The mystic gains something to do every round they're not spellcasting and a bunch of wis skills to int (which is on them, higher) The Operative gets a -2 ac for the rest of your life debuff right out of the box, and the trick attack helps land thebiohack which helps land the trick attacks. -4 to your ac is brutal in starfinder.

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Arms Expert is good for more than just longarms! There's a decent sniper weapon and even some advanced melee weapons that are affected by Arms Expert. If you combine it with Painful Injections (or if you wanna go really niche, a Str-based melee biohacker build!) a biohacker can do appreciable damage! (Like BNW says, if you're a dedicated DPS Biohacker you've probably already taken the feat before lvl 8, though.)

Elongation Mutation is decent too - every melee character benefits from having reach, and the way its worded, I think it's meant to stack with other reach-adding thingies.

If you took Instant Recalibration previously, then Improved Instant Recalibration also isn't bad! There is a certain kind of player that, no matter what, always rolls low when the check really matters; this is a nice way to offset those bad luck spikes.


Kishmo wrote:
Arms Expert is good for more than just longarms!

A dedicated DPS biohacker losing little to nothing in terms of their buffing debuffing and biohacking abilities.

Dipping a level of sharpshooter soldier effectively gives you a +2 to hit because there is always a Vesk tail in the way of your shot. (unless your Vesk takes the i'm not cover improved coordinates shot ability) from there you can take versatile specialization. Dipping a level of blitz would be the same for a melee biohacker.

-doesn't the dip put you behind on your biohacking though?- ... Not really. At 9th+ level you'll effectively have an extra biohacker ability available compared to someone that used the theorem on arms expert. You'll also be able to use specialization from levels 4/5 ish on up.

I don't like one tru wayism (I have an int based mystic and a strength based ysoki operative...) but the dip works out so much better than arms expert that it's almost math that the dip is better than arms expert. I can't consider arms expert very good when there is an option in the same niche that is just plain better to the point it makes arms expert superfluous.

Elongation Mutation is decent too - every melee character benefits from having reach, and the way its worded, I think it's meant to stack with other reach-adding thingies.[/url]

- Elongated arms and instant recalibration are really good. (Instant recalibration in sfs or other skill heavy environment) I am definitely taking the later on my biohacker Mom Norveg (did you REALLY look? WAthunk)


I feel like a lot of what the Biohacker is, is weirdly stuck in the Pathfinder 1st diagram.
Sure you can restore biohacks on a 10min. but thats often difficult in some cases and there is no other option to restore biohacks. Making them a weirdly tight commodity at times. When you're out you're kind of just a less accurate attacker? (some nice passive debuffs w/ minor + Inhibitor and a few late game options). Plus a strangely lot of the mid to high level theorms are 1/day in various ways (looking at you tranq dart which would be really cool otherwise).

I find myself wishing I could restore biohacks as a full round action for a resolve. Be fun flavor, switching out a vial in my microlab (my flavoring are a nanite package).

I hadn't noticed Instant Recalb. I should check that one out again.


Zwordsman wrote:

I feel like a lot of what the Biohacker is, is weirdly stuck in the Pathfinder 1st diagram.

Sure you can restore biohacks on a 10min. but thats often difficult in some cases and there is no other option to restore biohacks. Making them a weirdly tight commodity at times.

The solution there is medication mastery. Whats hidden there is that you don't shoot someone for the benefit, you shoot them full of drugs for the side effects. Sedatives for non lethal damage are obvious, but you can also shoot them with an analgesic to relieve pain.... and make them flat footed.

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