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So I love Star Trek and Starfinder and I wanted to build a federation and starfleet into the Starfinder setting. My utopia federation is called the Galactic Peace Initiative and is the result of a group of races lead by Shirrens, who want a more united and stable interspecies gov than the pact worlds. So they launched a massive armada to find a new world to base their federation and hopefully make friends on the journey. The starfleet is called Vanguard after the group responsible for keeping the fleet safe in transit to their new home, Planet Brezhak and this is a rough draft of the command structure.
Any thoughts or ideas, or better names would be helpful.
Vanguard Command
•includes all command functions of Vanguard including auxiliary departments.
Auxiliary Command
•Support Staff
•Corps of Engineers
•Research Division
Peacekeeper Command
•responsible for both internal and external security of Galactic Peace Initiative
Vanguard Expeditionary Command
•Exploration arm of Vanguard, includes Forerunner Corps, First Contact specialists etc.
Vanguard Expeditionary Fleet
Vanguard Forerunner Corps
Founded by a former starfinder and based on the starfinder society Forerunners.
XenoDiplomacy Division/Includes First Contact Teams, Xenodiplomacy
I would steal some of the Stewards archetypes for your GPI; most of them have diplomatic options as well as combat options, which would serve you well. Just change the names and you’re good.
The upcoming Galaxy Exploration Manual will also have a lot of material for you, if you want your GPI to be explorers as well as peacekeepers and scientists.
I would steal some of the Stewards archetypes for your GPI; most of them have diplomatic options as well as combat options, which would serve you well. Just change the names and you’re good.
The upcoming Galaxy Exploration Manual will also have a lot of material for you, if you want your GPI to be explorers as well as peacekeepers and scientists.
Actually, that helps quite a bit since I took a look at the archetypes found the steward infiltrator and completely forgot about adding an intelligence branch to the Vanguards. I am really looking forward to the galaxy exploration manual, though I have some workarounds for the time being. Will the manual clarify the whole drift beacons thing? Because I've never been clear on how exploration occurs if you need drift beacons to be in an area first in order to jump there. Does that mean there are planetary systems without beacons that one can only reach at sunlight speeds or by literally making a pact with the devil, or converting to a religion. I love the concept of the drift, but it still confuses me a bit.
At least some beacons appear spontaneously according to the CRB, presumably placed by Triune to achieve at least minimal Vast status everywhere. I presume the church’s mission in placing more is to upgrade everywhere to Near Space eventually.
To that end, your GPI would probably have support from Triune's faithful, at least so far as in placing additional drift beacons for travel.
One of the nuances of the setting though, is that travel to anywhere in the vast takes only 30 days (max).
That's not much distance (time wise) between GPI and the Pact Worlds directorate, and is likely to cause some tension. In terms of this group likely wanting to be independent.
To that end, your GPI would probably have support from Triune's faithful, at least so far as in placing additional drift beacons for travel.
One of the nuances of the setting though, is that travel to anywhere in the vast takes only 30 days (max).
That's not much distance (time wise) between GPI and the Pact Worlds directorate, and is likely to cause some tension. In terms of this group likely wanting to be independent.
That's a good point. Although I like the idea of tension between the two organizations and kind of want to view the pact worlds through an outside perspective, but I also like the idea of the GPI rediscovering the Pact worlds after having time on its own to develop. Would the Vast actually insure that or would they get harassed by Pact Worlds interests immediately after fleeing the system. Or would the collective Pact worlds just forget they existed and get on with life. It raises interesting possibilities. Though another thought how are interstellar borders organized, will we ever have a galaxy map of known space, or is the one and i missed it. I just like to get an idea of where the pact, veskarium and Azlanti Empire are in relation to each other. Or is it all a matter of drift travel times.
It's all a matter of A) drift travel times, and B) knowing where exactly you're going.
You still have to know where your destination actually is to get there. Which is why the vast is so little traveled, picking a star at random will return random results. On top of that, the gap means telescope observations are unreliable. Just jumping into the vast is a roll of the dice.
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But once someone goes there once, assuming they report back there's pretty much no way to stop anyone from being able to go there, assuming they share navigation data.
When you're taking about hundreds of thousands of ships and people, likely going back and forth between pact world and GPI (at least early on) the chance that the information doesn't make it back is slim in my opinion.
But once someone goes there once, assuming they report back there's pretty much no way to stop anyone from being able to go there, assuming they share navigation data.
When you're taking about hundreds of thousands of ships and people, likely going back and forth between pact world and GPI (at least early on) the chance that the information doesn't make it back is slim in my opinion.
So the GPI would have to actively stop anyone from reporting to the Pact Worlds, probably by either capturing or destroying unregistered vessels, which doesn't seem like something a peace loving federation would do. Could there be another method of creating isolation like destroying their drift beacons. Or I guess the GPI could simply keep tense, but decent trade relations with the Pact worlds and grow out in the open. I'll have to ponder that one.
Trying to think of a name for the exploration arm of GPIs vanguard fleet. Options I am kicking around are Vanguard Stellar Survey Corps. Vanguard Forerunnners, after the archetype, though that feels redundant since both words mean essentially the same. Then there's Vanguard Starfinder Corps, an obvious homage to the starfinder society and this organization was founded by a former starfinder society member. If there s something catchier that would be helpful, I tend to make name clunky and over long. There's also Vanguard Scout Corps.
Honestly capturing or destroying a vessel intent on getting the information is unlikely.
Really they only need to know which star system you went to.
Is your federation really going to say, "We're packing everything up and never coming back for anything" and also not tell anyone except for very select individuals where you're going. Trusting them to not tell anyone else.
To me the only way that makes sense is to have them be out in the open and have some sort of normal relations between your federation and the pact worlds.
There's really no method of securing your borders in Starfinder.
Destroying drift beacons doesn't do it. That just makes the area part of the vast, and means you have a 30 day (max) journey time.
As far I understand, drift travel can take you anywhere you know you want to go to, with the only difference being how long it takes to get there.
So if someone knows something is there, you can't stop them from getting there.
It's one reason why a lot of people get rid of drift travel for some other means of faster than light travel. Drift travel doesn't have you travel through the intervening space. There's no way to secure a border. You can't put a huge distance between you and someone else to make it difficult to get to.
Basically all you can do is fortify your planets/space stations against invasion and hope for the best. You can't really hide from or outrun your enemy.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense and federation isn't belligerent, the just some ideological differnces so normal but tense relations with the pact worlds makes sense. Thanks.
I imagine it to be somewhat like the border between say China and India. Or North Korea and Japan.
Both groups have too much to loose by attempting to assault the other, and a barrage of FLT capable autonomous ships with nuclear arsenals on board would make it very easy to exterminate the enemies habitable planets to the point that risking open confrontation is....bad.
EoX and Aballon probably don't care much, but the rest of the flesh bags probably don't want to spend the rest of their existence only in space stations.
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Nothing called the Galactic Peace Initiative can be anything but pure evil.
Am I the only one who has a hard time reconciling "Its basically a Star Trek Federation homage" with suggestions like "They arrest or kill anyone who might report their location to outsiders"?
You have a fair point, though I did agree that isn't what peace federation would do and completely agree that they try to coexist with their neighbors. I just wanted a degree of isolation. Hahaha. But yes, the suggestion was absurd.
Nothing called the Galactic Peace Initiative can be anything but pure evil.
I mean the United Federation of Planets weren't exactly saints either.
Attempting to forcefully displace an entire settlement for the sake of a fountain of youth.Sanctioning Section 31 and their virus to wipe out the Founders.
The Maquis.
Unwilling to save the Romulans after their star exploded and when their armada got wiped out, unwilling to try again.
I am sure there are more but I cannot think of them off the top of my head. Lol.
Oooooh, another thought , the prime directive, is it even worth bothering with, I like the concept and the moral dilemma it represents but is total non-interference the best policy. Or is there a better approach to interacting and studying more primitive cultures.
Am I the only one who has a hard time reconciling "Its basically a Star Trek Federation homage" with suggestions like "They arrest or kill anyone who might report their location to outsiders"?You have a fair point, though I did agree that isn't what peace federation would do and completely agree that they try to coexist with their neighbors. I just wanted a degree of isolation. Hahaha. But yes, the suggestion was absurd.
I didn't think anyone was seriously suggesting killing others as a response to try to maintain secrecy.
More an exploration of it was possible, and the short answer is no. You can't keep yourself secret or impossible to reach.
Am I the only one who has a hard time reconciling "Its basically a Star Trek Federation homage" with suggestions like "They arrest or kill anyone who might report their location to outsiders"?You have a fair point, though I did agree that isn't what peace federation would do and completely agree that they try to coexist with their neighbors. I just wanted a degree of isolation. Hahaha. But yes, the suggestion was absurd.I didn't think anyone was seriously suggesting killing others as a response to try to maintain secrecy.
More an exploration of it was possible, and the short answer is no. You can't keep yourself secret or impossible to reach.
Well, you can keep yourself secret by staying in boring looking systems in the vast, staying small, and building all your bases as difficult to detect. There are a lot of stars in the galaxy after all.
Only if you already started off with people not knowing you're there.
In this case, you're leaving inhabited systems and trying to say "Don't follow us."
In my opinion that's just not going to be effective.
Only if you already started off with people not knowing you're there.
In this case, you're leaving inhabited systems and trying to say "Don't follow us."
In my opinion that's just not going to be effective.
There are... 100 billion stars in the milky way. You can't track someone in the drift without someone on the ship sending messages back/an actual tracking device. If they just leave you have... a slightly better chance of finding them than winning the lottery.
It's so many ships though, they're going to have to coordinate.
And the chance that at least one says, "I'd like to come back and trade" is pretty high. I just don't see maintaining secrecy as viable myself.
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Three can keep a secret if two are dead.
It's so many ships though, they're going to have to coordinate.
And the chance that at least one says, "I'd like to come back and trade" is pretty high. I just don't see maintaining secrecy as viable myself.
The GPI as presented will never be able to hide... but another group focused on secrecy has a very good chance of doing so.
Yeah, I mean if you're willing to disappear in the middle of the night, kill everyone who isn't part of your cult, and instill a mindset of discipline that places importance of the group over concern for yourself.
Nothing at all like the GPI.
Yeah, I mean if you're willing to disappear in the middle of the night, kill everyone who isn't part of your cult, and instill a mindset of discipline that places importance of the group over concern for yourself.
Nothing at all like the GPI.
No, I mean if you just up and leave, settle a system or two and stay there without exploring further, you have a very good chance at not being found for hundreds of years or more.
Yeah, it's possible for their to be multiple independent trade networks in the universe who don't interact for a very long time. How long partly depends on network effects and how well these separate pools of civilization integrate and share knowledge when they meet.
The Pact Worlds no doubt publicly and generally know about hundreds if not thousands of inhabited worlds, and some of those worlds (like the Veskarium and the Azlanti) have their own exploration networks that also know about lots of worlds, but how well do they keep secrets from each other? The Azlanti presumably have downloaded all the publicly available info from the Pact Worlds via spies, but the Pact Worlds and Veskarium probably have a harder time getting the classified scouting reports of the Imperial Vanguard Scout Corps.
And there might be big temporal disconnects between common links between civilization networks. The Pact Worlds might have found and filed a report on an uninteresting low civilization/tech world in 40 AG, and maybe no one has bothered to visit it since, except for some other huge empire who found it in 222 AG and doesn't care much about their poorly documented claims of other space visitors five generations before.
Missed connections, Starfinder style.
You: The vaguely described, but sexy sounding explorers who found this charmingly useless planet before my grandfather was a twinkle in the communal breeding pool.
Me: A planetary despot from a low-ranking clan hoping to better his position by tracking down the rumors of your visit to scout and conquer your civilization before you find ours, but wistfully watching the centuries go by as we explore different arms of the galaxy.
So after some research I think, I am going to have the Galactic Peace Iniative simply be the result of the initial shirren break with the swarm. This group don't reach the Pact Worlds but find an inhabited star system and eventually form the GPI. Then I'll have a pc explorer vessel discover the pact worlds and so on so forth. According to the lore, not all shirrens settled in the Pact Worlds.
I think that makes sense ASB.
The problems I had were more already being in contact with the Pact Worlds and choosing to leave.
Relying on no one to go back, no one to follow you, etc and general secrecy to maintain your location as separate and hidden seems unlikely to work to me.
But having them be a part of the Shirren who broke away from the Hive works. They left an unadvanced society in the Suskillon system when they split into 3 groups. One of which could have went on to form the organization you want.
I think that makes sense ASB.
The problems I had were more already being in contact with the Pact Worlds and choosing to leave.
Relying on no one to go back, no one to follow you, etc and general secrecy to maintain your location as separate and hidden seems unlikely to work to me.
But having them be a part of the Shirren who broke away from the Hive works. They left an unadvanced society in the Suskillon system when they split into 3 groups. One of which could have went on to form the organization you want.
The problem is that I was going to use the Shirren style ships from the rulebooks, but that wouldn't really be possible because there's no guarantee they would have the same design philosophy, or I'm overthinking it and I'll just come up with a reason why they're ships are the same. Also I know I've renamed my Starfleet the Interstellar Armada, which I realize is pretty another way of saying Starfleet. Vanguard seems to be taken by the Azlanti. lol.
Yeah, I mean if you're willing to disappear in the middle of the night, kill everyone who isn't part of your cult, and instill a mindset of discipline that places importance of the group over concern for yourself.
Nothing at all like the GPI.
That sounds a lot like what happened with the Clans from BattleTech. And absolutely nothing bad came from them.
Another alternative for where they came from is people fleeing the Swarm. I could see a generation later society being real leary of going anywhere near their old home if that might still be around.
People fleeing the swarm could certainly leave a reason why they would not go back. Fear of being spotted by a swarm unit left behind, and following you back to their new home could be communally scary enough to keep most if not all communication from coming back to the pact worlds. It might even lead to your IA starships having a 'navigational self-destruct' in all fleet starships and computers such that any ship coming into an old known system, or one sighting a known swarm craft, have all navigational data wiped, to keep the swarm from being able to find them. At a minimum I could see scout patrol ships so equipped, and those explorers would know they are subjecting themselves to possible exile if they encounter any swarm presence in their search for livable systems.
The idea of them being refugee's running from the swarm, might mean you'd expect them to be less prone towards exploration (more chance/risk of running into swarm pockets). However, potentially searching out potential habitable worlds that they could potentially run to if the swarm picks up one of their colonies might be worthwhile knowledge. I just would expect they wouldn't be prone to much in the way of actual expansion and interdependence, as the more systems they inhabit/collect, the greater the chance the swarm pops into one of them. However, it could also be a reason why they might choose to only inhabit worlds in the Vast, despite the potential impact of longer drift travel times.
If part of your concern with having to have come from the Pact Worlds, is to make it include humans and potentially other races, you can remember that the Azlanti are also formerly human. The Shirin could potentially have found a lost Azlanti colony. There could even be the potential of a colony that somehow got transported from some point in time from Earth.
If you want a stronger border, you could invent a new type of gate technology. Currently Drift drives can only transport you anywhere within the galaxy. Perhaps the IA has settled somehow across a drift-gate and are actually in a distant galaxy. Maybe it has its own drift-center and capital, which allows travel to it in 1d6 days from anywhere in that galaxy.
Such gates might be items in normal space, or potentially they are special locations within the drift, that allow jumping to alternate drifts (alternate galaxies). And given finding any discrete location is normally extremely hard in the drift, drift-galaxy-gates could be extremely hard to find, and might be generally left guarded to either prevent access, or to at least provide warning.
Also, if the federation/IA doesn't typically use drift engines any longer (to keep from randomly encountering swarms, traveling in the drive) they might have an alternate FTL drive that allows travel between star systems that are within a certain number of lightyears from each other, instead of utilizing drift rules.
People fleeing the swarm could certainly leave a reason why they would not go back. Fear of being spotted by a swarm unit left behind, and following you back to their new home could be communally scary enough to keep most if not all communication from coming back to the pact worlds. It might even lead to your IA starships having a 'navigational self-destruct' in all fleet starships and computers such that any ship coming into an old known system, or one sighting a known swarm craft, have all navigational data wiped, to keep the swarm from being able to find them. At a minimum I could see scout patrol ships so equipped, and those explorers would know they are subjecting themselves to possible exile if they encounter any swarm presence in their search for livable systems.
The idea of them being refugee's running from the swarm, might mean you'd expect them to be less prone towards exploration (more chance/risk of running into swarm pockets). However, potentially searching out potential habitable worlds that they could potentially run to if the swarm picks up one of their colonies might be worthwhile knowledge. I just would expect they wouldn't be prone to much in the way of actual expansion and interdependence, as the more systems they inhabit/collect, the greater the chance the swarm pops into one of them. However, it could also be a reason why they might choose to only inhabit worlds in the Vast, despite the potential impact of longer drift travel times.
If part of your concern with having to have come from the Pact Worlds, is to make it include humans and potentially other races, you can remember that the Azlanti are also formerly human. The Shirin could potentially have found a lost Azlanti colony. There could even be the potential of a colony that somehow got transported from some point in time from Earth.
If you want a stronger border, you could invent a new type of gate technology. Currently Drift drives can only transport you anywhere within the galaxy. Perhaps the IA has settled...
This concept is amazing, though doesn't really fit my Federation. Again I didn't want my federation to be cut off from the Pact Worlds, but just not be directly related to then and discover them instead of being directly connected to them from them outset. In fact, they initially hesitate to reveal themselves, when they discover the Pact. Swarm invasion is the reason they open diplomatic relations with the Pact and embrace their influence.
I love this hiding from the swarm idea and I'm going to use and develop it for a battlestar galactica type campaign. Where a fleet of ships is perpetually on the run from the swarm to the point of severe paranoia. Your post is an amazing concept and awesome campaign idea on its own.
Battlestar Insectia?
So, this gonna be a can of worms but what alignment do you think the GPI might be. I am defaulting on lawful good but it would interesting to hear what others think. No, I am not entertaining evil alignments. I am not clear on what neutral alignments even really mean. What do you all think?
So, this gonna be a can of worms but what alignment do you think the GPI might be. I am defaulting on lawful good but it would interesting to hear what others think. No, I am not entertaining evil alignments. I am not clear on what neutral alignments even really mean. What do you all think?
" My utopia federation is called the Galactic Peace Initiative and is the result of a group of races lead by Shirrens, who want a more united and stable interspecies gov than the pact worlds."
Definitely lawful, but unless they're engaging in some actual charity or self sacrifice for the greater good then LN rather than LG.
The Azlanti Empire, of course, also wants a more united and stable government over various species than the Pact Worlds.
So, this gonna be a can of worms but what alignment do you think the GPI might be. I am defaulting on lawful good but it would interesting to hear what others think. No, I am not entertaining evil alignments. I am not clear on what neutral alignments even really mean. What do you all think?" My utopia federation is called the Galactic Peace Initiative and is the result of a group of races lead by Shirrens, who want a more united and stable interspecies gov than the pact worlds."
Definitely lawful, but unless they're engaging in some actual charity or self sacrifice for the greater good then LN rather than LG.
The Azlanti Empire, of course, also wants a more united and stable government over various species than the Pact Worlds.
Something to consider, the Shirren are all about individuality, so the GPI might actually be CG than LG. More interested in the common good, with respect of people being able to make their own choices, and letting others make their own choices. (as long as it doesn't harm the common good)
So if the rules it has, are more about what you can't do to others without their consent, rather than defining what you are permitted to do, it might open up a different governmental feel.
Pact world seems more like a non-aggression/mutual defense agreement, with very little interference in the matters of member bodies. If the GPI is perhaps more invasive, but in making more consistent tolerance of varied member cultures throughout its borders, but less prescriptive requirements on individuals actions.
It could be interesting seeing the sort of tension that a LN culture might have with a CG political power that theoretically has power over it.
So, this gonna be a can of worms but what alignment do you think the GPI might be. I am defaulting on lawful good but it would interesting to hear what others think. No, I am not entertaining evil alignments. I am not clear on what neutral alignments even really mean. What do you all think?" My utopia federation is called the Galactic Peace Initiative and is the result of a group of races lead by Shirrens, who want a more united and stable interspecies gov than the pact worlds."
Definitely lawful, but unless they're engaging in some actual charity or self sacrifice for the greater good then LN rather than LG.
The Azlanti Empire, of course, also wants a more united and stable government over various species than the Pact Worlds.
Something to consider, the Shirren are all about individuality, so the GPI might actually be CG than LG. More interested in the common good, with respect of people being able to make their own choices, and letting others make their own choices. (as long as it doesn't harm the common good)
So if the rules it has, are more about what you can't do to others without their consent, rather than defining what you are permitted to do, it might open up a different governmental feel.
Pact world seems more like a non-aggression/mutual defense agreement, with very little interference in the matters of member bodies. If the GPI is perhaps more invasive, but in making more consistent tolerance of varied member cultures throughout its borders, but less prescriptive requirements on individuals actions.
It could be interesting seeing the sort of tension that a LN culture might have with a CG political power that theoretically has power over it.
So to update a little. I've moved away from the GPI leaving the Pact Worlds to the GPI being formed by a separate group of Shirrens who left the swarm and formed this federation in a system of warring powers in the vast. They eventually meet the Pact Worlds but develop separately.
Lore guard, I love the idea you presented. I agree that a Shirren utopia would be more individual oriented and possibly even chaotic good. Although sine freedom of choice is literally a drug to Shirrens there might need to be protections in place to avoid exploitations.
I honestly think your thoughts are spot on,
"Something to consider, the Shirren are all about individuality, so the GPI might actually be CG than LG. More interested in the common good, with respect of people being able to make their own choices, and letting others make their own choices. (as long as it doesn't harm the common good)"
"If the GPI is perhaps more invasive, but in making more consistent tolerance of varied member cultures throughout its borders, but less prescriptive requirements on individuals actions.
It could be interesting seeing the sort of tension that a LN culture might have with a CG political power that theoretically has power over it."
This feels spot on for the GPI, I will definitely explore this idea more. It feels more unique and more in line with the Shirrens.
I realize something the alignment might move back and forth between lawful and chaotic. Other member race might check the Shirrens obsessive individuality.
Obviously this is homebrewed material. So maybe it was a single colony ship that departed during the gap. No records would exist of it then.
Another option is that it was an entire federation of loads of individuals all making the mass exodus. But again, during the gap. They find themselves there post gap, and the pact worlds have no record.
Of course if you go with your swarm theory you mentioned recently, a gap event works fine for that too.
Personally I'm not a fan of vast handwaving, but for a large scale thing like you're going for, it's probably best to utilize the large, "gap"ing, lore tool in your toolbox, also known as the gap lol.