I can't see why not. I interpret 'before the results are revealed' to mean 'before whatever happens as a result of that roll happens'. So, say, you can't roll a 12, wait for the GM to call 'miss', then declare your re-roll.
I interpret "before the results of the roll are revealed" to be any time between "the die stops rolling and you see what it is" and "the GM tells you what happens because it was this number and not a different number."
So when it's a 1 or a 20 you have a good idea what's going to happen, but you can still reroll with these abilities.
To avoid slowing things WAY DOWN in PbP, something different should probably be done. Maybe you have to announce ahead of time a range of results to which you want the reroll ability to be applied automatically (possibly in combination with other conditions)?
Player: I rolled a twenty but not sure If i should re-roll it since I haven't heard results yet.
DM: *beats player with over sized novelty bat*
same for 1
Just sayin.
I see what your saying I feel like they should just let all the re-rolls work after you know the result. keep it the same across the board. Hmm might slow down the game however >.> perfect strike you just roll them all at the same time anyways right? I think there is ones that go after the result is seen to but I can't think of any.
Player: I rolled a twenty but not sure If i should re-roll it since I haven't heard results yet.
DM: *beats player with over sized novelty bat*
same for 1
Just sayin.
What did that poor bat ever do to you? It was just trying to find fruit!
That's overly antagonistic.
Just sayin'.
What if I said it was an inflatable bat?
I agree with those saying the die result alone does not qualify as knowing the "results". And literally that is true, because there is any number of abilities/effects which could negate or alter the "results" you might expect from even a 1 or 20. In other words, 1, 20, or anything between is not the "result" of the roll, it IS the roll.
The ability is inherently meta-gaming (fun fact, playing the game nigh REQUIRES some level of meta-gaming... i.e. "does your character KNOW how AoE and threat zone and 5' step mechanics work?) and you aren't forced to NOT meta-game about Nat 1 or 20s (and even if you WERE re: Auto-Fail/Success, you would likely decide similarly based simply on being super low/high).
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If you are actively using it, you can try and talk to the GM to inform about the ability and how it works. I was playing a PFS game a few years back with a misfortune witch in the party. What the player did was sit next to the GM after the explination. The GM had declared the number on the dice and it was the player's decision if a reroll was necessary. It led to a bit of a longer game, but was fair on both sides.
As for meta-gaming, there are also a few things that goes against that can normally be learned through failure. A bard's Gallant Inspiration spell, a Medium's Spirit Surge, and an Spiritualist Investigator's Sixth Sense are a few examples of when a failed number known can lead to out of character knowledge.
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It's safe to assume, in my mind, that you can re-roll a 1 because you can reroll any other number where it's utterly obvious that you failed/are going to fail. A 1 may be a RAW automatic fail, but it's usually a safe assumption that anything 2-5 will be a failure as well unless your GM is throwing you some serious softballs.
As a player, I'd announce before the roll: 'I might reroll this one.'. So the GM would hopefully give me a bit of time after the roll.
As a player, I'd announce before the roll: 'I might reroll this one.'. So the GM would hopefully give me a bit of time after the roll.
Then you would be saying that before every roll.
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I'd like to meet the guy that might be concerned enough to reroll a natural 20, however. That takes something special.
As a player, I'd announce before the roll: 'I might reroll this one.'. So the GM would hopefully give me a bit of time after the roll.Then you would be saying that before every roll.
DEEP... It's almost like you know what his games are like better than him.
I'd like to meet the guy that might be concerned enough to reroll a natural 20, however. That takes something special.
The OP was discussing 2 abilities whose mechanics hinge on the same point, the one relevant to a scenario of choosing to re-roll a Nat 20 is named "Misfortune" and describes the targets "suffering" from it's effects. So usage vs enemies who have rolled high attack/Save is the default usage, even if it also works vs yourself/allies (which would be done when rolling low to re-roll for higher, i.e. a benefit despite fluff text of ability).
As a player, I'd announce before the roll: 'I might reroll this one.'. So the GM would hopefully give me a bit of time after the roll.Then you would be saying that before every roll.DEEP... It's almost like you know what his games are like better than him.
I'd like to meet the guy that might be concerned enough to reroll a natural 20, however. That takes something special.The OP was discussing 2 abilities whose mechanics hinge on the same point, the one relevant to a scenario of choosing to re-roll a Nat 20 is named "Misfortune" and describes the targets "suffering" from it's effects. So usage vs enemies who have rolled high attack/Save is the default usage, even if it also works vs yourself/allies (which would be done when rolling low to re-roll for higher, i.e. a benefit despite fluff text of ability).
If you have to say you might re-roll to get a chance to re-roll and you don't know which rolls you want to re-roll until after you have seen the roll, it takes no great powers of clairvoyance to know how that works out.
Unless the roll you are making isn't one you will bother rerolling. "Oh darn, I missed my Craft: Underwater Basketweaving check. Guess I'll try again next week."
Sure, but how common are those compared to attack rolls, saves, concentration checks, caster level checks, or skill checks that it would suck to fail?
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Honestly, a lot of attack rolls and saves are ones I wouldn't care to preface. Especially if I have a good idea of the outcome. Spellcrafting a doom spell means I'm not going to be thinking about rerolling. Spellcrafting a destruction spell would. Likewise, I'm not wasting a reroll on attacking a goblin mook, but I might for the antipaladin that is mowing through the party.
Failing some checks is okay, and your posit that we would always use the reroll preface is faulty.
The OP was discussing 2 abilities whose mechanics hinge on the same point, the one relevant to a scenario of choosing to re-roll a Nat 20 is named "Misfortune" and describes the targets "suffering" from it's effects. So usage vs enemies who have rolled high attack/Save is the default usage, even if it also works vs yourself/allies (which would be done when rolling low to re-roll for higher, i.e. a benefit despite fluff text of ability).
True, though clearly my sarcasm was directed elsewhere. :)
Honestly, a lot of attack rolls and saves are ones I wouldn't care to preface. Especially if I have a good idea of the outcome. Spellcrafting a doom spell means I'm not going to be thinking about rerolling. Spellcrafting a destruction spell would. Likewise, I'm not wasting a reroll on attacking a goblin mook, but I might for the antipaladin that is mowing through the party.
You don't know if it's Doom or Destruction until you succeed on your spellcraft check.