I'm running two players through Extinction Curse. To make up for the small party size, I'm giving free archetypes and a couple of meat shield GMPCs to protect the druid herbalist and (acrobat?) Rogue.
One of those meat shields, an orc tiefling monk, is also going to be the primary healer so the PCs don't need to be. I was going to give him the Medic archetype, but then I realized Blessed One might accomplish the same purpose with less dice rolling, which seems nice for ease of use on an auxiliary character. It also frees up some skill increases for Intimidate which is nice with later gorilla feats.
Can anyone think of a reason to stick with the mundane over the magical?
(The other "PC" is Bardolph the Bear.)
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Basically, I think that's a theme choice more than anything, and either theme seems workable. For me, I'd go with Blessed One for the 'less dice rolling' reason you've already cited if all you need is in-combat healing.
That said, Medic actually provides vastly more healing per encounter in the long term, since it can provide Battle Medicine to multiple people in the same encounter, and then still do one per hour even after that starting at 7th, while Lay on Hands tends to always be once per encounter unless you really focus on Focus Point stuff...which can be a bit of an issue if multiple people need it. A Medic can also, with Ward Medic and Continual Recovery, provide much quicker out of combat healing, though Lay on Hands does get you there eventually.
If all that's worrying you is the rolling, you can also grab Assurance (Medicine) which is a solid pick for Battle Medicine users anyway and cut down on it a fair bit.
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From a mechanical pont of view Medic will eventually give you less downtime as they can eventually treat wounds multiple people at the same time for more HP than lay on hands will provide. This will allow for much shorter rest periods and, with assurance, you can also remove the dice rolling element from about level 6 (when it will give you a 20 at expert).Personally, I find Blessed One combined with another character to work well in downtime:
- Our Cleric / Blessed One heals the most seriously wounded and then refocuses for 10 minutes
- My thief uses Treat Wounds on the entire party to get everyone up a lesser amount (we're 18th level right now, so my Master medicine check is healing about 40hp x 4 patients while our cleric is healing 54hp x 2 casts).
- Lather, rinse, repeat as needed (or use a low level wand to top off the last bit of damage).
Of course, if our cleric had both archetypes, he could have done "Doctor's Visitation (Stride + Battle Medicine), Lay on Hands, and Lay on Hands" in that particular case...
Medic archetype and godless healing. That combination heals all party members +1 extra per hour. Around lvl 9 you get a fairly good change to reach a DC 30 check, which would heal 2d8 +45 per attempts, and in one round you could move&BM as a flourish (docs visitation), BM and still have an action left without haste for over 100 hp healed. It will cost you all skill feats to have a medic with all extras (continual, ward, godless healing, robust).
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Medic archetype and godless healing. That combination heals all party members +1 extra per hour. Around lvl 9 you get a fairly good change to reach a DC 30 check, which would heal 2d8 +45 per attempts, and in one round you could move&BM as a flourish (docs visitation), BM and still have an action left without haste for over 100 hp healed. It will cost you all skill feats to have a medic with all extras (continual, ward, godless healing, robust).
I don't think advice predicated on the whole party taking multiple Skill Feats is really very useful for a single NPC being added to a preexisting party.
And I mean, if you just want an 'every hour healer' you can get that easily with an Investigator taking the Forensic Medicine Methodology and then the Medic Archetype, and get to add their level to all their healing amounts as well (on top of the Medic bonus). That does everything Godless Healing does but better and without needing the whole party to take multiple Skill Feats. But this character has already been specified as a Monk, so it's not really useful in this specific instance.
Does Blessed One wind up with better condition removal? Mercy seems to cover a lot.
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Does Blessed One wind up with better condition removal? Mercy seems to cover a lot.
Depends.
A Medic can get the ability to treat Clumsy, Enfeebled, Sickened, Frightened, Stupefied, and Stunned all by 6th level. They then gain nothing until 16th level, and even then only receive the out of combat ability to fix Diseases, Blinded, Deafened, Doomed, or Drained via Legendary Medic.
At 6th level a Blessed One, meanwhile, can use Mercy on only Paralysis and Fear effects.
However, the course of the next eight levels, the Blessed One also gains the ability to fix Clumsy and Enfeebled at 8th, then Blinded, Deafened, Sickened, and Slowed at 10th, then Stupefied and Confused at 12th, and finally at 14th the ability to remove Curses, Diseases, and Poisons.
So from a pure effectiveness standpoint, the Medic is better at 4th to 9th level or so, is probably even at about 10th to 11th, then falls behind at 12th. They pull ahead again at 16th for non-combat removal, though they remain behind in terms of in-combat condition removal.
The Medic version, however, is worth noting as all Skill Feats (and not all that many of those, really...we're talking about three Skill Feats devoted to condition removal, total, plus getting Trained in Diplomacy), while the Blessed One version is a total of 5 Class Feats. Which, y'know, ouch. So the Medic version is vastly cheaper.
For this party specifically, I'm not sure I'd worry as much about it as in some parties just because you do have a PC Druid. Druids can, like Clerics, solve just about any condition related issues in the long run, which gives you a fair cushion in this regard.
Does Blessed One wind up with better condition removal? Mercy seems to cover a lot.
That really depends how many feats you throw at it. Base Mercy only affects fear and paralyzed. Treat Condition works on clumsy, enfeebled, or sickened for one feat for comparison. Holistic adds frightened, stupefied, and stunned for another feat. For mercy, you need Invigorating Mercy, 2 levels later, to get clumsy or enfeebled added.
IMO, Medic covers more earlier. If you don't mind tossing ever feat at mercy though, by 14th you can even try to counteract curse, disease, or poison. You're looking at 5 feats taken by then though.
Edit: ninja'd by 8 seconds! ;) Deadmanwalking made good point on skill feats making the Mercy route seem even more feat intensive.
I think blessed one can have a lower investment floor- you can get the healing running with just the dedication feat, and then you can ignore it entirely.
Would that allow it to treat conditions like medicine? No.
Would that allow it to go into other archetypes? No.
But it does allow you to still get healing out, even without investing numerous skill increases and a ton of skill feats. Since you are a monk, you will likely get other feats to increase your focus pool. So there there are advantages to this option.
Medic can get you better healing in the long run, but you are buying that healing with various investments.
Sidenote- champions (and blessed one clerics) can be super powerful healers. While focus abilities from later publications tend to spell out how you refocus (which usually amounts to staring blankly at a wall for 10 minutes), the general refocus rules from the CRB give one example that you can make a build around- clerics of good deities tending to the wounds of allies. And the rules explicitly say you can have it overlap with other activities.
So you could cast lay on hands, spend 10 minutes doing medicine, and then you could get another focus point to continue the cycle.
If your GM would complain, grab Sarenrae as your deity- then, you would be fulfilling one of her edicts for 10 minutes (which is something discussed as part of the champion's refocus activities).
There is also the option to take both archetypes: here is a start...
Medic Dedication 2nd [class]
Battle Medicine 2nd [skill]
Continual Recovery 3th [general]
Doctor's Visitation 4th [class]
Treat Condition 4th [skill]
Blessed One Dedication 6th [class]
Ward Medic 6th [general]
Yeah, the fact that one is largely skill feats, and the other not, makes them work pretty well together if you're looking to make a super healer.
Throw them on a cleric, and your party will be all but unstoppable as long as you're in the fight.
Medic archetype and godless healing. That combination heals all party members +1 extra per hour. Around lvl 9 you get a fairly good change to reach a DC 30 check, which would heal 2d8 +45 per attempts, and in one round you could move&BM as a flourish (docs visitation), BM and still have an action left without haste for over 100 hp healed. It will cost you all skill feats to have a medic with all extras (continual, ward, godless healing, robust).I don't think advice predicated on the whole party taking multiple Skill Feats is really very useful for a single NPC being added to a preexisting party.
Not sure what you mean, but I'm talking about the Monk/Medic in a setup as Graystone mentions. All skill feats for the monk towards Medicine. Not all party members.
Medic Dedication 2nd [class]
Battle Medicine 2nd [skill]
Continual Recovery 3th [general]
Doctor's Visitation 4th [class]
Treat Condition 4th [skill]
Ward Medic 6th [general]
Only with the Field Medic Background (gives BM) and Godless Healing added #2nd.
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Not sure what you mean, but I'm talking about the Monk/Medic in a setup as Graystone mentions. All skill feats for the monk towards Medicine. Not all party members.
Uh...Godless Healing only applies its benefits if the person receiving healing has it. For it to be good for the whole party, the whole party must have it.
Only with the Field Medic Background (gives BM) and Godless Healing added #2nd.
As Deadmanwalking said, Godless Healing is for the target not the healer. As to the background, sure you can do that and it would allow you to take Assurance [medicine] in there. Myself, I'd just replace Battle Medicine at 2nd with assurance if I took the background.
Secular Medic, Lastwall Survivor, Sarkorian Reclaimer also give Battle Medicine so you have the option for Abyssal, Undead, Anatomy lore instead of the Warfare lore from Field Medic.
Yeah, the fact that one is largely skill feats, and the other not, makes them work pretty well together if you're looking to make a super healer.
Throw them on a cleric, and your party will be all but unstoppable as long as you're in the fight.
That set up also means that you can take a negative energy cleric without people complaining.
Only with the Field Medic Background (gives BM) and Godless Healing added #2nd.As Deadmanwalking said, Godless Healing is for the target not the healer. As to the background, sure you can do that and it would allow you to take Assurance [medicine] in there. Myself, I'd just replace Battle Medicine at 2nd with assurance if I took the background.
Secular Medic, Lastwall Survivor, Sarkorian Reclaimer also give Battle Medicine so you have the option for Abyssal, Undead, Anatomy lore instead of the Warfare lore from Field Medic.
You are completely right, have read it wrong all this time. That moves it from the useful category way down to not worth much.
Frame challenge: why not build this character using the monster creation rules? The. You don’t need to be constrained by how PCs do it..?
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Frame challenge: why not build this character using the monster creation rules? The. You don’t need to be constrained by how PCs do it..?
It's a lot more convenient if you're using them to round out a party in an AP with less than four PCs. The growth is easier and more organic and the loot issue is taken care of organically as well.
Frame challenge: why not build this character using the monster creation rules? The. You don’t need to be constrained by how PCs do it..?It's a lot more convenient if you're using them to round out a party in an AP with less than four PCs. The growth is easier and more organic and the loot issue is taken care of organically as well.
Yep. Also, NPCs tend to be less versatile than PCs in exchange for their raw numbers. And versatillity is also important when you need to round out a party. You can add more abilities to increase NPC versatility, but then you start to lose the advantage in simplicity.