Attacking while blinded


Rules Discussion


Am i wrong or being blind and having your only precise sense being vision means that you cannot target any creature unless you first seek it with either your smell or audition?

Would that mean that the creatures you were aware of become automatically hidden?

Anyone has a good and dense explanation of possible cases?


Anything that was observed by you before you went blind becomes hidden automatically, yes.

A hidden creature can still be targeted, but you have to make a DC 11 flat check or lose the action(s) involved without effect.

Once they start moving around they become undetected by you. Then all you can do is guess a square they might be in and attack it. This is the same DC 11 flat check, but both it and the attack roll are made secretly by the GM, and if you don't hit something they don't tell you why not.

To make undetected creatures merely hidden you need to Seek, which you can do with your imprecise senses but at a -4 status penalty (applies to all Perception checks while blinded).

I don't have any examples. :-(

Just in case you or someone in the audience doesn't know, the rules for perceiving things in general are on p464-467 of the CRB (or here) and the rules for being blinded are on p618 (or here).


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Once they start moving around they become undetected by you.

I think they only become undetected if they Sneak.

Shadow Lodge

mrspaghetti wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Once they start moving around they become undetected by you.
I think they only become undetected if they Sneak.

This is correct: If you aren't actually sneaking successfully, opponents can still figure out where you are (in general terms at least) even if they are blind or you are invisible, so you are merely hidden (requiring a flat check to actually hit) rather than undetected (untargetable).

In fact, technically speaking, if you attempt to sneak against a blind foe who is already aware of your presence and critically fail the check, you actually become observed somehow: It's one of the weird stealth rule loopholes...

Sneak <Single Action> wrote:

Move, Secret

Source Core Rulebook pg. 252 1.1
...
If you’re undetected by a creature and it’s impossible for that creature to observe you (for a typical creature, this includes when you’re invisible, the observer is blinded, or you’re in darkness and the creature can’t see in darkness), for any critical failure you roll on a check to Sneak, you get a failure instead. You also continue to be undetected if you lose cover or greater cover against or are no longer concealed from such a creature.
...
Critical Failure You’re spotted! You’re observed by the creature throughout your movement and remain so. If you’re invisible and were hidden from the creature, instead of being observed you’re hidden throughout your movement and remain so.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
mrspaghetti wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Once they start moving around they become undetected by you.
I think they only become undetected if they Sneak.
In fact, technically speaking, if you attempt to sneak against a blind foe who is already aware of your presence and critically fail the check, you actually become observed somehow

I mean, if you want to follow rules that are obviously mistakes, then yeah. I hope no one is doing that.

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