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So, of the three Hunter's Edges that the Ranger currently has, the Outwit Edge is seen as the "least sexy." It doesn't let you get off a bunch of attacks like the Flurry Edge or make one big attack even bigger like the Precision Edge. Instead it boosts your defenses against your current prey, and gives you a circumstance bonus to Deception checks, Intimidation checks, Stealth checks, and Recall Knowledge checks against your current prey (in addition to the bonus towards Perception and Survival that all rangers get).
So, how to we build a Ranger that can use these bonuses to their full advantage? My first thought is that we're definitely going to need an archetype so that our Social Ranger can boost a whole lot of skills that will enable them to take full advantage of all the skills that got boosted, but which archetype is best? And which kind of fighting style would be the best pick for an Outwit Ranger?
I'm curious about what others can come up with.
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That’s a neat build.
I went for a finesse elf outwit ranger with the scout archetype to put stealth to use. I also considered a rogue archetype.
One build that I saw was a defensive one.
Outwit
18STR/10DEX/14CON/10INT/14WIS/12CHA
Monster Hunter
Sentinel dedication
Disrupt Prey
Skirmisher Strike
Master Monster Hunter
The rest of the feats are free and the weapon of choice is a Reach one like a Halberd.
Skill ups will be Intimidation and Nature.
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Something I've been considering is a Ranger who takes both the Dandy Archetype and the Rogue multiclass archetype (through Multitalented) to get a bunch of skills up to Master Rank at least and then have them boosted further by the Outwit Edge.
Rangers are usually just envisioned as operating solely in the wilderness, so having one who can eye up someone in a high society function and know exactly what to say to deceive them or scare them would be pretty interesting, I think.
I do enjoy the Dandy archetype. Maybe even investigator instead of rogue.
I do enjoy this post and am definitely curious about the edge. By default it seems really weird to me compared to the others from a combat perspective.
I honestly feel like Ranger is a trap for new players since each edge has a very "niche" play style to get good use out of it. Just an example for our first campaign this happened.
-Our ranger took outwit as an Archer/Animal Companion and he felt it was pretty bad. Outwit really needs to have a good reason to choose it.
-Currently our ranger went a flurry/melee/demoralize build and I just feel since he hardly ever attacks more than twice it just feels wasted.
-Precision is nice because all it requires is to hit once a round.
It is understandable that since it is our first game but Flurry/Outwit just seem like they really want to do specific things.
My biggest hurdle is the fact is the biggest combat bonus is +1 circumstance bonus to AC which feels like a waste if the monster doesnt attack you.
The other issue is that for combat the stats are tough since it gives you +2 to recall knowledge/intimidation which are all the mental stats so you can only focus on being good at part of it.
I am curious to read other people's thoughts. Out of combat I guess it is better than the other edges, our current campaign is probably 70%+ combat. I am not sure if it is bad but it sure is weird. Being able to specialize in recall knowledge is fun but it is hard to equate how much that contributes to your teams success while the others are easy to tell how much they help.
I sort of disagree on low-Cha Outwit and avoiding Intimidation.
The big thing for me is that Outwit takes away your combat mechanic and replaces it with bigger skill bonuses and I think leveraging those big bonuses for stuff like bon mot and demoralize is one of the best way to cover those gaps in your kit.
Recall is good, but it's not going to carry you through a whole combat and the out of combat benefits are limited, since your internal support only applies to Monster ID and Outwit only works on your Prey, so you aren't actually that great at being the party's primary knowledge guy.
It's not that it's bad, I just don't think it's enough to justify focusing on Outwit on its own.
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One interesting thing about Outwit is how it allows you to make use of Hunt Prey out of combat. Hunt Prey has no limits saying it can only be used it combat, and none of it's traits imply that others can tell you're doing it. So you can Hunt Prey on any NPC you're talking to to get an easy +2 to Deception and Intimidation checks against them.
One interesting thing about Outwit is how it allows you to make use of Hunt Prey out of combat. Hunt Prey has no limits saying it can only be used it combat, and none of it's traits imply that others can tell you're doing it. So you can Hunt Prey on any NPC you're talking to to get an easy +2 to Deception and Intimidation checks against them.
To be honest, that's what got me thinking of putting the Dandy Archetype on the Ranger in the first place.
I had a player build a “tank ranger” using outwit. Tried to talk him out of it. Told him any other Edge with a shield would be miles better. He still did it. Hated it. Changed out to an archer with precision. Likes it better. Who knows, maybe next arc he'll go all the way and get a crossbow, or else swap to Flurry for Better use with his bow.
We will see.
I applaud the effort to try to theorize a good outwit Edge, and it is rare of me to not be supportive of the rules, but... I don’t see the value. Way too limited/lackluster benefit from outwit.
It's definitely a little rough losing your DPR gimmick in exchange for skill bonuses (especially standing next to a rogue or investigator who gets both, although outwit has some advantages over those obviously).
It'd probably feel better if manifold edge and double/triple prey weren't such extraordinarily high level options.
One bit of annoyance with the edge I haven't seen mentioned here is that since its bonuses are circumstance instead of untyped, you can run into some frustrating moments where the game undercuts you if your GM is handing out circumstance bonuses to skill checks or your teammates are using aid.
Although in fairness, tank ranger is probably the worst way to play Outwit. In order for the build to make any sense you need to go in really hard on what it gives you instead of traditional combat benefits... which is basically monster ID and intimidation.
It's too bad there's nothing like bon mot for deception.
I would try this Edge in a heartbeat if the bonus was a +2 Circumstance or if it were still +1, but granted an "untyped" or Status bonus. It would be pretty great for a defensive medium armor Ranger with shield, or simply defensive builds in general.
Right now, the best "tank ranger" would be weapon+shield and precision, so you can deal good damage but have spare actions to hunt prey, move and raise shield.
Outwit simply isn't impactful or powerful enough to warrant the huge loss of Precision or Flurry, specially after I've played Age of Ashes until level 12, where my max AC (no shield) Monk was being consistently, and easily, hit by any creature of higher level and against bosses it was almost meaningless.
I think a reach build based off of disrupt prey could still be decent. With skirmish strike, you can set up some distance play, and getting an extra 2 hander attack on a common event will help to make up for the deficits.
But that is more working "around" the edge, rather than "with" the edge. you gain no benefit from outwit there, and you are probably better off just doing precision for the same build.
Precision is just too good for a nice, generic "I want to be good at killing things" build, since it stacks with practically anything.
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That's why I think to take full advantage of Outwit, you can't just be using it to "tank." You need to be demoralizing, sneaking, and feinting in combat, and you need to be outmaneuvering foes out of combat whether it be through stealth or a silver tongue. That's why I think that Dandy is a fairly good archetype for the Outwit Ranger. You're definitely giving up DPR options for these other bonuses, so you need to be using them.
An outwit ranger focusing on Dex and Cha, that then goes into shadow dancer could be one of the sneakiest characters in the game.