I was putting together a list of treasure for an upcoming session, and noticed that the Treasure tables in the CRB include several types of snares. If a character opens a chest and finds a snare, then what, exactly, do they have? What can they do with it? If there's a way to take a snare from your inventory and place it on the battlefield, what is that action?
The rules for crafting snares don't seem to leave much room for a portable, ready-made snare.
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It definitely isn't a ready-made snare but what you'd find is the "unassembled" materials a PC would need to use to make said snare. It very much depends on what snare they find but I imagine most of them would be things like tension bars, gears, some high quality rope or cable, wooden or metal housings, and other mechanical bits and bobs in a wooden crate stuffed with straw to keep it safe.
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I believe this actually came up in one of the Age of Ashes modules (probably the second one) when a snare was in the encounter loot.
Presumably, snares were originally planned to distinct items you could find and when they changed their minds on that, they neglected to update the Treasure tables / adventures that were already written...
It definitely isn't a ready-made snare but what you'd find is the "unassembled" materials a PC would need to use to make said snare...
Presumably, snares were originally planned to distinct items you could find and when they changed their minds on that, they neglected to update the Treasure tables / adventures that were already written...
That would explain it. Sounds like an incomplete feature, and since none of my PCs have Snare Crafting at this point, I'll just avoid it. Thanks!
Got a source?
Seems to me snares, provided they aren't active, would make fine treasure.
For example, a snare that has not yet been set up, or that has been safely disarmed, could easily be claimed, moved, and used elsewhere.
Got a source?
Seems to me snares, provided they aren't active, would make fine treasure.
For example, a snare that has not yet been set up, or that has been safely disarmed, could easily be claimed, moved, and used elsewhere.
As reasonable as that seems, what with bear traps and such, that's not the way PF2 developed snares. You can only buy raw materials for snares, not actual snares. Snares are unavailable and they are not movable items. As the snare's made, it's placed, and it doesn't move.
One could make the argument that a PC could break down a snare into (a fraction of) its raw components for later use, but that PC would still need Snare Crafting to set up those raw materials as a snare elsewhere.I have to think there are mechanical/balance reasons behind this because it's a bit discordant to me. I do know a few people abused purchasable, movable traps in PF1, so maybe that spurred this. Now snares are linked to player abilities more.
(Technically you could buy snares by purchasing the services of somebody who can build them and providing that person with the raw materials, but those snares would still be immovable.)
Snares are unavailable and they are not movable items. As the snare's made, it's placed, and it doesn't move.
Please, try and convince me. Insofar as I can tell, any rules indicating that snares are immovable are, or could be, referencing active snares.
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Snares are unavailable and they are not movable items. As the snare's made, it's placed, and it doesn't move.Please, try and convince me. Insofar as I can tell, any rules indicating that snares are immovable are, or could be, referencing active snares.
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 Snares are small annoyances and simple traps you can create using the Crafting skill if you have the Snare Crafting feat (page 266). Creating a snare requires a snare kit (page 291) and an amount of raw materials worth the amount listed in the snare’s Price entry. Unlike other items, found snares cannot be collected or sold in their complete form. Snares have the snare trait.Source
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 A snare is built within a single 5-foot square. Once constructed, it can’t be moved without destroying (and often triggering) the snare.Source
You must have the Snare Crafting feat to create snares. You can spend 1 minute to Craft a snare at its listed Price. If you want to Craft a snare at a discount, you must spend downtime as described in the Craft activity. Some snares have additional requirements beyond those stated in the Craft activity; these snares list their requirements in a Craft Requirements entry.
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 Snares are small annoyances and simple traps you can create using the Crafting skill if you have the Snare Crafting feat (page 266). Creating a snare requires a snare kit (page 291) and an amount of raw materials worth the amount listed in the snare’s Price entry. Unlike other items, found snares cannot be collected or sold in their complete form. Snares have the snare trait.Source
I agree that you cannot collect or sell an active snare "in their complete form."
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 A snare is built within a single 5-foot square. Once constructed, it can’t be moved without destroying (and often triggering) the snare.Source
That's why you deconstruct it first with Disable a Device, Taja. Then, and only then, would you be able to move or sell it.
I remain unconvinced.
If it's listing a Snare as treasure then it's almost certainly trying to communicate that what is included are the materials needed to craft said snare since they cannot be moved or collected in their completed form.
Plus a little booklet that tells you how to put it together, poorly written and in a language no-one in the party knows. Mustn't forget the booklet.
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Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 Snares are small annoyances and simple traps you can create using the Crafting skill if you have the Snare Crafting feat (page 266). Creating a snare requires a snare kit (page 291) and an amount of raw materials worth the amount listed in the snare’s Price entry. Unlike other items, found snares cannot be collected or sold in their complete form. Snares have the snare trait.Source
I agree that you cannot collect or sell an active snare "in their complete form."
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1 A snare is built within a single 5-foot square. Once constructed, it can’t be moved without destroying (and often triggering) the snare.Source
That's why you deconstruct it first with Disable a Device, Taja. Then, and only then, would you be able to move or sell it.
I remain unconvinced. The only place in the rules where I can find dissassembly of an item is: Source
Core Rulebook pg. 293 1.1
If you have an item, you can try to reverse-engineer its formula. This uses the Craft activity and takes the same amount of time as creating the item from a formula would. You must first disassemble the item. After the base downtime, you attempt a Crafting check against the same DC it would take to Craft the item. If you succeed, you Craft the formula at its full Price, and you can keep working to reduce the Price as normal. If you fail, you’re left with raw materials and no formula. If you critically fail, you also waste 10% of the raw materials you’d normally be able to salvage.
The item’s disassembled parts are worth half its Price in raw materials and can’t be reassembled unless you successfully reverse-engineer the formula or acquire the formula another way. Reassembling the item from the formula works just like Crafting it from scratch; you use the disassembled parts as the necessary raw materials.The 'reassembly' portion clashes with the specific snare rules
Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1
Snares are small annoyances and simple traps you can create using the Crafting skill if you have the Snare Crafting feat (page 266). Creating a snare requires a snare kit (page 291) and an amount of raw materials worth the amount listed in the snare’s Price entry. Unlike other items, found snares cannot be collected or sold in their complete form. Snares have the snare trait.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 589 1.1
A snare is built within a single 5-foot square. Once constructed, it can’t be moved without destroying (and often triggering) the snare.
You must have the Snare Crafting feat to create snares. You can spend 1 minute to Craft a snare at its listed Price. If you want to Craft a snare at a discount, you must spend downtime as described in the Craft activity. Some snares have additional requirements beyond those stated in the Craft activity; these snares list their requirements in a Craft Requirements entry.
So, unless you are willing to spends days of downtime each time you reassemble your snare, you can't just use the same snare multiple times without replacing half of its parts each time (perhaps the legendary 'Snare of Theseus'?).
Since the necessary materials for a snare are typically not actually defined, calling a disassembled snare a 'snare' seems like a bit of a stretch: It's really just a pile of odds and ends, plus maybe a specific component or two.
So, unless you are willing to spends days of downtime each time you reassemble your snare, you can't just use the same snare multiple times without replacing half of its parts each time (perhaps the legendary 'Snare of Theseus'?).
Since the necessary materials for a snare are typically not actually defined, calling a disassembled snare a 'snare' seems like a bit of a stretch: It's really just a pile of odds and ends, plus maybe a specific component or two.
I was speaking in plain English. I was not referring to any kind of rules mechanic other than disarming a device with the Disable a Device activity listed under the Thievery skill.
You simply disarm the snare (with however many checks or time the GM deems appropriate, per normal with Disable a Device) then set it up again elsewhere, or just sell it.
It would likely take rounds or minutes. Certainly not days.
I agree that you cannot use a snare more than once. Once triggered, it is expended, and you'd have to purchase or Craft a new one.
However, if your quarry didn't fall for your snare and it was never triggered in the first place, I firmly believe there's nothing stopping you from taking it down and trying again later somewhere else.
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"Just disable it then move it" seems to directly contradict the "once constructed it can't be moved without destroying the snare" line in the rules, which seems pretty unambiguous to me.
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I have to agree. Once it is assembled the BEST you can do is trigger/disable it and then reverse engineer/disassemble it with the downtime rules to recoup the value.
Snares are in a weird space halfway between Hazards and Consumables but it's very clear that PCs are never meant to be able to recycle a given snare without having to pay out in more raw materials and crafting time to set it up again.
Narratively, I can get behind the explanation that a snare isn't just the device, it's also the terrain it's set into. Plus a bunch of judgments about placing and concealing it. IRL, if I "disassemble" a snare trap, I'm just holding a rope.
Bummer that the idea was left half-baked in the rules as written, though.