How do you perceive and harm an ethereal creature?


Rules Discussion


Before I write this into an adventure, I thought I would check the rules.

What sees ethereal?

What can affect ethereal?

Ethereal Jaunt:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=105

Standard rules for ethereal plane, or just this spell?

Horizon Hunters

Currently there is no wat to see into or effect the Ethereal plane, outside of going there yourself. There are a few creatures that make use of the plane, like Ether Spiders, Xills and Night Hags.


So how do you fight the ether spider which seems to be able to shift planes freely for 1 action?

The Night Hag and Xill have a daily limit on their uses.

Horizon Hunters

krobrina wrote:

So how do you fight the ether spider which seems to be able to shift planes freely for 1 action?

The Night Hag and Xill have a daily limit on their uses.

They have to be on the Material plane to hurt you, meaning they're vulnerable. But this isn't really about rules anymore...


1 action go material, 1 action attack, 1 action go ethereal

This is a 5th level monster. There's no super wizard to pull it out of intradimentional space.

If that is "working as intended" at 5th level, then this is rules issue, as the monster needs errata.


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You can Ready an action to Strike them when they appear.

Paizo Employee

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Cordell Kintner wrote:
Currently there is no wat to see into or effect the Ethereal plane, outside of going there yourself.

It's uncommon, but there is the ethersight ring from Sixty Feet Under which allows you to see into the Ethereal Plane. Still need to lure the creature out or chase after it, but the ring will let you know it's there.

Horizon Hunters

Ether Spiders are still beasts, and I wouldn't expect them to pull those shenanigans. Ideally, they would start with their web, phase in and move into position on round 1. Round 2 and onward try to get as many poison doses into their target they can, until the target is dead. They would only shift back if their life was in danger, or they needed to reposition themselves.

Remember on the Ethereal plane you move at half speed. If the spiders are trying those shenanigans on you, just walk away.


Cordell Kintner wrote:
Ether Spiders are still beasts, and I wouldn't expect them to pull those shenanigans.

This isn't an animal. They have an Intelligence of 6 and can speak Aklo.

The bestiary entry gives bite and fade as a tactic, claims they are not mindless and that prey "can bargain for their lives".

Horizon Hunters

I said they are beasts. Further, that's if there's a single target. If a group of adventurers approached they would likely do what I mentioned above. Immobilize as many as possible and pick off the weakest looking first by injecting a bunch of poison in at once. If they can get a target to stage three quickly, they can then move on to the more threatening targets.

Also if no one speaks Aklo, bargaining won't be an option.


There's this Spiritsight Crossbow from the APG. It lets you look 60ft into the Ethereal plane for a round, 1/min.

Weirdly it's got a Ghost Touch rune even though it isn't a melee weapon.


Where does half move on the ethereal plane come from?

I don't see why an intelligent creature would use such terrible tactics on purpose - how did it survive so long? Even lions know to pick off 1 from a herd rather than fight them all. You're welcome to GM them however you want in your own games, of course.

I think the monster needs a very slight adjustment as all the ethereal combat stuff is generally higher than 5th.

Am I thinking of 1E or does force hit ethereal?

The only way I could read your post about "this is a beast" is to think you were assuming beasts weren't smart.

Horizon Hunters

krobrina wrote:
Where does half move on the ethereal plane come from?

I'm getting it from the spell. I read it as "The spell does this, here's the rules while you're there." rather than the spell forcing all those rules on you.

krobrina wrote:
I don't see why an intelligent creature would use such terrible tactics on purpose - how did it survive so long? Even lions know to pick off 1 from a herd rather than fight them all. You're welcome to GM them however you want in your own games, of course.

That's exactly what I was suggesting. Its web can be shot from the Ethereal plane into the Material plane. After immobilizing any possible threats, the spiders would come out and attack the weakest looking party member. The poison reduces AC, and multiple doses of poison will advance the stage to Stage 3 where the target is Slowed 2, meaning they can't cast any spells. Once basically incapacitated, they can focus on the other threats that may be in the area.

The whole in/out every turn thing can be countered too easy. Just group up and ready an action to strike a spider when it appears. Everyone gets one strike per round, but I can guarantee you the Barbarian or Fighter would win that fight.

krobrina wrote:
I think the monster needs a very slight adjustment as all the ethereal combat stuff is generally higher than 5th.

It seems fine to me.

krobrina wrote:
Am I thinking of 1E or does force hit ethereal?

Ethereal Jaunt states you can be affected by Force effects that originate on the Material Plane. I don't believe that's spell specific, but rather the "rules" of the plane. That spell is all we have in terms of possible rules.

krobrina wrote:
The only way I could read your post about "this is a beast" is to think you were assuming beasts weren't smart.

I believe you are overthinking how "smart" a -2 Int modifier is. For comparison, look at Trolls. They are described as "dim-witted", so their tactics should be sub-optimal, mainly focusing on dealing damage, but possibly using maneuvers like Shove to gain an advantage. With +0 being average intelligence, these spiders would be dumber than the average human.


There are three spells indicating that force effects extend into the Ethereal in general: ethereal jaunt as already mentioned; blink gives you resistance to all damage except force; and wall of force specifies that "because it's made of force" it blocks ethereal creatures.

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