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So i've been mulling over this for a while now, the idea being to make an unarmed combat style with little to no use of spells, though use of supernatural abilities is on the table, and i want to make one for Int, Wis and Cha.
For Wisdom i made an unchained Invested regent monk who primarily uses abundant step to dart around the battlefield at high speeds, utilizing the dimensional assault feat line for maximum effectiveness.
The Charisma one is a Blood conduit/Untouchable Rager Bloodrager that largely utilizes grappling and various other maneuvers while still having access to the abilities bloodrage gives off, making it very potent in the hands of one with the abyssal bloodline.
So now what would be good for intelligence? I've considered the Mutagenic Mauler since Alchemy use reflects intelligence, but i fear it would lack the mobility the monk has or the versatility the conduit does.
Maybe i should just look at it as having raw destructive power?
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scaled fist monk/draconic sorcerer(bloodrager)-> dragon disciple is another Cha based unarmed combatant if you are interested.
I would suggest 1 level of wizard. Entirely for knowledge is power discovery, I forget, but I seem to recall a magus can take them somehow... Or perhaps that was me multiclassing.. Either way, Its a nice boost.
Outside of that... I'm not entirely sure. I've made a Int based elven eldritch knight before, through the use of the Elven battle style/focus feats to get Int to damage for the weapon, but I'm not sure if there is a way to get Int to anything relevant for unarmed.
Invested regent needs Cha, which is both MAD and goes against your plan I'd have thought.
Original (chained) rogue can get Int-based ki and a couple of abilities with saves based off Int. Or, there's a feat (artful dodge) which switches Dex prereqs to Int, you might do something with that though preferably not with a rogue.
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Invested regent needs Cha, which is both MAD and goes against your plan I'd have thought.
Original (chained) rogue can get Int-based ki and a couple of abilities with saves based off Int. Or, there's a feat (artful dodge) which switches Dex prereqs to Int, you might do something with that though preferably not with a rogue.
You say that but as i looked into it i found you dont need more then 12 charisma to make it work.
Talk you GM into allowing the Carmendine Monk feat, from the Champions of Valor book...
Benefit:
You can use your Intelligence bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your monk AC bonus and for determining the save DC against your stunning fist and quivering palm attacks. You can study your thesis notes for 1 hour to treat your monk level as two higher for determining one of the following monk abilities: unarmed damage, AC bonus, or unarmored speed bonus. This benefit lasts for 24 hours, at which point you can study your notes again to gain the same or a different effect. You can't study your notes more than once in any 24-hour period.
Brawler-1/Investigator-X Maybe? I think there's at least one Investigator archetype that replaces Alchemy if it's too spell-ish for your tastes.
There are a couple of unarmed Magus archetypes. They're all pretty much downgeades from the standard Magus, but I think the Justkin Artificer is alright. They'll definitely have spells though.
I don't think there are any Occultist archetypes that replace spells, but if there's a Fighter/Brawler/Monk/whatever archetype that gets some Occultist class features (eg. Implements) then you'd certainly have a reason to invest in INT. I think there are some but I don't remember exactly what you get, so it may not be a full translation and the INT-scaling might not be there as much as I think.
I don't necessarily think taking 3 rounds to kill an enemy is a failure, but even though we differ there Kirin Strike still not a good feat.
It costs 2 feats, 3 swift actions and you can only apply it once per round. If it were to every attack, or took less time to set up, or even was only 1 feat I might like it, but that's such a huge cost for such a small benefit that I can't imagine ever really seeing a benefit from it.
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I don't necessarily think taking 3 rounds to kill an enemy is a failure, but even though we differ there Kirin Strike still not a good feat.
It costs 2 feats, 3 swift actions and you can only apply it once per round. If it were to every attack, or took less time to set up, or even was only 1 feat I might like it, but that's such a huge cost for such a small benefit that I can't imagine ever really seeing a benefit from it.
Do keep in mind kirin strike can be used on ranged attacks so a sniper build employing this would not be a bad idea.
Hmmm... I guess that makes it better for a switch hitter.
Actually, it's not an unarmed build, but Kirin Strike plus FOCUSED SHOT or even just a an Alchemist might be worthwhile.
Kirin strike isn't going to stack with focused shot. Both add Int mod to damage, even if k-s adds 2*Int mod it still counts.
Adding damage from the 3rd round attacking an enemy means that you weren't on the first 2 rounds. And even sniper builds may be doing 2 attacks per round eventually; if you're adding 2*Int mod to 2 of 8 attacks then that's about the same as +1/2 Int mod per attack.
No, ki-rin strike isn't worth the cost. With 3 feats and 3 swift actions you should be able to find a way to do better than that.
can't you trade up the swift actions? Using your move or standard in place of them?
If so, then it could come on deck in the second round, possibly giving up only one attack, your left over move/standard from round 1 being used to get into place, round 2, third swift to activate Kirin strike and then full attack
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can't you trade up the swift actions? Using your move or standard in place of them?
If so, then it could come on deck in the second round, possibly giving up only one attack, your left over move/standard from round 1 being used to get into place, round 2, third swift to activate Kirin strike and then full attack
That is true, You use Could basically spend one turn doing everything before going out next turn if you're willing to trade up actions.
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There are some more feats for Int based melee combat:
Cunning Killer
Studied Combatant (there is also an Improved version)
Redirect Attack (easier to unlock with Artful Dodge)
Yup, they are all a bit clumsy and situational, but might still be worth it.
You can trade down a Standard into a Move,
To clarify, you can take 2 move actions in a round by sacrificing your standard action, but not the other way round (I'm pretty sure you know this, but the language used there was a bit vague).
Now, you can get it all to work in round 1 (once a day), if you have that Corset and the feat Combat Style Master to start in Kirin Stance.
See, getting it all to work in round 2 would make me think this isn't as bad, but even if it wasn't once per day that's still 3 feats.
Nope, I don't like it.
What's the feat that lets you use your INT instead of DEX for TWF prerequisites? That would help this.
Artful dodge is the prereq switching feat.
Of course, there aren't vast numbers of high-dex prereq unarmed feats. Maybe TWF - a psychometrist avenger vigilante has a reason to have high Int, can punch people with fist of the avenger, and do so twice as often with TWF.
(tho' with a d8 HD and with Int subbing for Dex probably not much Dex, and no spells, defences are a problem for this character).
Sadly swift actions are what quickened spells are, and they didn't want people casting multiple quickened spells per round. That's the reasoning behind not being able to trade up swift actions.
There's already a specific rule for that: "A spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn't count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round."
I've never found balance problems allowing 'trade a standard for a swift' as a house rule.
Sorry to weigh back in on the Kirin Style debate, but the combat stamina trick makes it way more viable, since the Kirin Strike feat lets you always add your Int bonus to damage.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-trick s-optional-rules/
I've never found balance problems allowing 'trade a standard for a swift' as a house rule.
Isn't it possible to ready a swift action anyway?
Sorry to weigh back in on the Kirin Style debate, but the combat stamina trick makes it way more viable, since the Kirin Strike feat lets you always add your Int bonus to damage.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-trick s-optional-rules/
Not bad, but besides being an optional rule that's a lot of feats:
improved unarmed strike
kirin style (min level 6)
kirin strike (min level 9)
combat stamina
combat style master (min BAB +6 or monk level 5)
{1 other style feat as prereq to CSM}
6 feats besides power attack or piranha strike, and minimum character level 9 is a lot.
Isn't it possible to ready a swift action anyway?I've never found balance problems allowing 'trade a standard for a swift' as a house rule.
Huh, that never occurred to me.
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Here's one way to make a mental-attribute PC viable in combat [Title: Combat Role for character with only good mental attributes and no feats?]. Hint: that approach just leverages your Animal Companion to be awesome and does nothing to make your actual PC competent in combat.
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Inspired/Internal Alchemist VMC Monk...
1. Combat Reflexes
2. Infusion
3(VMC): Improved Unarmed Strike
4. Mutagen
5. Point Blank Shot
6. Wings?
7(VMC): Evasion
8. Discovery
9. Kirin Style
10. Discovery
11(VMC): Ki Pool
12. Extra Ki
13. Kirin Strike
14. Discovery
15(VMC): +3 Dodge bonus
16. Discovery
17. Feat
18. Discovery
19(VMC): Improved Evasion
20. Grand Discovery
Now, it's not at all optimal, but it works with a halfway decent point buy.
First couple levels you just use Combat Reflexes + Longspear... you will get through. The idea is to casually chuck Bombs whilst you study potential targets for Kirin Strike.