Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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Are we supposed to "purchase" all the chronicle boons our characters have earned?
for season 1? If you want too. The paper chronicle should be sufficient.
for season 2? If you want the character to have access to the boon, yes. Up to you if you want to print it on paper though.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Okay, this is weird. There's a boon listed for 2-03 Catastrophe's Spark, and I haven't played that yet!
Every scenario that has a boon is listed whether you've played it or not. If you try to "purchase" the boon for scenarios your character hasn't played it won't let you.
Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver
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Okay, this is weird. There's a boon listed for 2-03 Catastrophe's Spark, and I haven't played that yet!Every scenario that has a boon is listed whether you've played it or not. If you try to "purchase" the boon for scenarios your character hasn't played it won't let you.
Well, that might be a problem down the road for some. One of the local FLGS owners left it up to his employees to report games when 1e was thriving. I have at least a dozen scenarios from PFS 1e that never got reported. I always figured "the paper chronicle is more important", like I have been told many times, so I let it slide. I suppose I'll have to be more vigilant about making sure games get reported.
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Won't that lead to, I don't know what to call it, boon-hunting for lack of a better word? Only chronicles with good boons being played, I mean, regardless of how much fun they are. This could lead to some bad stuff, I think.Okay, this is weird. There's a boon listed for 2-03 Catastrophe's Spark, and I haven't played that yet!Every scenario that has a boon is listed whether you've played it or not. If you try to "purchase" the boon for scenarios your character hasn't played it won't let you.
You can only play scenarios once unless they are repeatable. I’ve only been seriously playing 2E since about March (edit: not May, sorry. Time has lost all meaning), and I’m already down to 1 S1 scenario, 1 S1 quest, the free RPG day module, and the scenarios that released last week. It’s not like a new scenario is going to come out and I’m not going to try to play it because the one line description of the boon sounds boring. Chronicle fishing is less about only playing certain scenarios and more about picking the character that you want to have the boon to play a particular scenario. Things like bequeathal have made that less of a concern.
(I haven’t played the AP or Plaguestone, because the way they were sanctioned means they are effectively content I’ll never be able to commit to playing over multiple days)
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Can anyone explain what the player benefit of this new system is? From my perspective it's adding a lot of additional steps and paper use to a system that already requires a lot of bookkeeping. I used to just get my boon with the chronicle. Easy. Now I still get the chronicle, but to get the boon I have to log in, select character, purchase, etc.
I'm assuming there must be some upside - but I'm not getting it!
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It incentivizes reporting.
In order for Organized Play to receive greater resources, such as budgeting, they need to show Paizo that people consume their product.
Initially, GMs were incentivized with GM Stars, Replays, certain Boons, etc. But, I can attest personally, those weren't enough to get everything reported.
Linking Boons and AcP to reporting incentivizes players to also want their games reported. I pestered my GMs who were behind on their reporting and added an extra ten sessions or so to the system.
I assume I'm not alone, and just this last six months I've definitely seen an increase in people asking about their games getting reported.
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That's the biggest reason, IMO, at least. Here's the whole list:
The boons aren't going away. But they are changing format. Having to write a boon per scenario is a cognitive/creative load. Especially in the world of P2, where a +1 makes a big difference to the math. Putting something meaningful into a future scenario regarding each boon is another cognitive/creative load. We're looking for the balance point, where a boon makes sense to the mission and we have ideas on where we can follow up on it.
We've also got a modular system of boon granting now. Not just by putting things on a chart and asking players to play AcP. There are many more widgets and toggles at our disposal. Like tying boons to scenarios played, faction reputation achieved, or the number of games you've GMed. AcP is just one part of the "Points Pool System" we created.
To leverage the system we built, encourage reporting (I can't ask for more resources if we aren't showing why we need them) and move away from paper (a goal I expressed several years ago), we are moving the boons online. This has an impact on chronicle sheets, yes. So does holding most of our events in digital space for the past 6 months.
Which means changes to the chronicle sheets. The team is discussing that in upcoming meetings - what is necessary for reporting/tracking/accountability, what is nice to have, and things that can go by the wayside. Expect some changes in the nearish future.
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It incentivizes reporting.
In order for Organized Play to receive greater resources, such as budgeting, they need to show Paizo that people consume their product.
Initially, GMs were incentivized with GM Stars, Replays, certain Boons, etc. But, I can attest personally, those weren't enough to get everything reported.
Linking Boons and AcP to reporting incentivizes players to also want their games reported. I pestered my GMs who were behind on their reporting and added an extra ten sessions or so to the system.
I assume I'm not alone, and just this last six months I've definitely seen an increase in people asking about their games getting reported.
Thanks for this and the post from Tonya. This helps me see how it has numerous important upstream benefits that help Pathfinder organized play overall. From my perspective, the system is less player-friendly and more difficult to use. Perhaps I just have to get used to it. Hopefully as the system rolls out it will become more seamless.
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In order for Organized Play to receive greater resources, such as budgeting, they need to show Paizo that people consume their product
Ever since I heard a high-ranking Paizonian say at a relatively recent Gen Con that there was no proof of how much of an impact org play had on the company’s revenue and he/she/they said they believed it to be much less than what most of us think, I lost the last remaining faith I had that the PtB would allocate any amount of money based on the efforts we make to demonstrate the size of the community. When Paizo is under new leadership, maybe that’ll change.
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Also, we are going to have to pay for any boons that we earn for playing a scenario?
If you check your Boons tab in the Organized Play section of your Paizo profile, you'll probably see some Scenario Boons already available.
I believe all of the current ones are 0 AcP, although I could imagine future, higher level Scenario Boons having some sort of cost, to represent their rarity.
Totally a guess, though.
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Ever since I heard a high-ranking Paizonian say at a relatively recent Gen Con that there was no proof of how much of an impact org play had on the company’s revenue and he/she/they said they believed it to be much less than what most of us think, I lost the last remaining faith I had that the PtB would allocate any amount of money based on the efforts we make to demonstrate the size of the community.
While I neither know what Paizo thinks Org Play's effect is on the company's revenue nor what Org Play thinks Org Play's effect is on the company's revenue, I don't think it's unusual that those two numbers differ.
It's quite possible that Org Play is correct they bring in a large chunk of gross revenue, and Paizo is correct that Org Play brings in a small chunk of net revenue. For example, if Org Play didn't exist, would you still play Pathfinder? If so, then they would lump your purchases in with "Will Buy Our Products Anyway" and not "Brought In By Org Play."
It's really hard to know which allocation is "correct," because we don't have the control experiment where Org Play didn't exist.
... BUT ...
In terms of maximizing the perception (regardless of whether that maximum is enough or not) that Org Play brings in net revenue, it would help if Org Play were more newbie-friendly.
Whether it's true or not, a lot of people shy away from Org Play because they think it's a bunch of stupid rules with no benefits. And frankly, I think they're often right. This whole hybrid system of "play a game in person and then log in to get your rewards" smacks of overkill to new players, like when those McDonald's monopoly pieces tell you to enter a 32-character alphanumeric code and put in your Social Security number to get your free small fries. It's way more okay for those of us who already have Paizo accounts, so rules like that skew newbie-unfriendly. So to fix the cost/benefit imbalance, Org Play should either be leaning on Paizo to attach better things to the online accounts (increasing the benefits), or helping people register on the site / claim their rewards (lowering the cost).
It's not that I don't understand the flip side. We're all busy, we all play this game for fun, and hand-holding new players, 90% of whom won't ever play again, isn't that fun. But there's a few simple acts of customer service that we can all implement to bring in new players, and when increases in registration numbers correlates with an increase in sales, it's way easier to make the argument that Org Play drives sales.
Organized Play Manager
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clipped... It's way more okay for those of us who already have Paizo accounts, so rules like that skew newbie-unfriendly. So to fix the cost/benefit imbalance, Org Play should either be leaning on Paizo to attach better things to the online accounts (increasing the benefits), or helping people register on the site / claim their rewards (lowering the cost).
We agree. On the cost side, we have several fixes in flight that will make the boons page sort better, work nicer, and have more user tools. Longer-term, we have a revamp of the My Org Play system that includes an updated user interface and graphics. There will also be a widget on the main PFS/SFS pages that will directly link to the My Org Play area, to reduce clicks and make info more visible. Both of these are in QA and should deploy soon, barring any significant issues.
On the benefits side, we are talking internally about the balance of rewards and what players need to feel motivated versus the costs of production. This isn't a one and done situation, but an ongoing discussion. One example, we made the Beginner Box reporting more appealing by awarding double the AcP to players and GMs. We hope this will be a source of onboarding and community growth, not grinding, and ask our communities to use it in the spirit we made it. If this doesn't work, we will go back to the drawing board to look at other options.
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I don't think "double AcP" means anything to new players. It means a lot to established players, people who understand what an AcP is worth, what it can do, what it can't do, etc.
I know I've posted my personal experience before, but I'll post it again, because I think it highlights things that are important and things that just aren't.
I showed up to my first PFS game after a string of registration failures. I was told by the convention that my badge would be ready (it wasn't), I thought I had signed up on Warhorn (I hadn't), and I got to the room 15 minutes late to find all the seats filled. It was pretty much Falcons 28, Patriots 3.
The person manning the registration desk went inside and grabbed the convention organizer, who asked one of his friends to give up his seat for me. It wasn't just any seat, it was an author-GM table with Michael Sayre. Here's the thing - none of that had any significance for me at the time; from my perspective, the reg desk volunteer went into the room, and came out to tell me they found a seat for me, some dude named Mike GM'd.
I borrowed some dice, borrowed a pencil, and was on my way. At some point, someone handed me a paper with "Welcome to Pathfinder" on the top. I stuffed it into my bag and found it a few months later; I also accumulated some wooden tokens, which I stuffed into my bag - nobody told me (or someone told me and I forgot) to bring them to the front desk to roll for a boon, I thought they were souvenirs - I also found those months later in my bag.
What made that first session great? All the boons and rewards? No ... it was great because despite crit failing every single preparation step, I got to play Pathfinder.
I get that the boons and double AcP are important for experienced players. I get that learning how to use Warhorn and Discord are critical to get into games. I get that registering people on the site is important for Paizo as a for-profit corporation. But none of that really addresses the barriers between a player walking away and a player's first session, or convincing a player that just completed their first session to come back for a second.
People get into the game because they have a friend who invites them to play (I heard about Pathfinder when I used "icosahedral" at work and someone in the next cube asked, "Like a d20?") or because they walk by a table and ask what's being played. If PFS tables are parasites on the host FLGS, it's not surprising that the proprietors shunt people away from Pathfinder. If PFS players are selfish and create elitist structures to disproportionately reward those on the inside, it's not surprising that Society gets a bad rep. I think Org Play, whether we want it or not, and whether Paizo likes it or not, are often on the front lines.
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If PFS tables are parasites on the host FLGS, it's not surprising that the proprietors shunt people away from Pathfinder. If PFS players are selfish and create elitist structures to disproportionately reward those on the inside, it's not surprising that Society gets a bad rep. I think Org Play, whether we want it or not, and whether Paizo likes it or not, are often on the front lines.
And the Frontlines is exactly what the VOs are for, They are the ones that should be making sure they are not parasites or elitist. If this is a common occurrence (Not something I witness IRL) then what you are asking is for Paizo to find a better way to weed those VOs out and get better VOs.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia
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If some Paizonians think PFS doesn't bring in much revenue, I think Paizo would be filing for bankruptcy and would have laid off a lot of employees without PFS during this pandemic.
I don't see how registering an account on Paizo is a problem for new players. If they don't want to do that, I would venture they are not going to continue to play in the first place. It is not difficult to do this. If they want to use e-mail they have to register an account. If they want to use all kinds of online things they have to register an account.
You are going to have some bad apples in any organization with an extended membership. That is just a reality. A bad one, but still a reality. The VO corps exists to try to mitigate that, but it is not always going to succeed.
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If some Paizonians think PFS doesn't bring in much revenue, I think Paizo would be filing for bankruptcy and would have laid off a lot of employees without PFS during this pandemic.
You might think that, but its not universal to all Paizo staff. There is a greater-than-zero count that really doesn't care about OP and even seems to be quietly hostile towards the concept. They honestly do not believe that org play brings all that much revenue and there wouldn't be a significant drop off if Paizo stopped supporting it. In fact, they might get an overall net gain since org play is such a large advertising cost. All of this is of course kept behind closed doors to avoid the community backlash. It is interesting what you can lean about your "heroes" as a fly on the wall.
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Also, we are going to have to pay for any boons that we earn for playing a scenario?If you check your Boons tab in the Organized Play section of your Paizo profile, you'll probably see some Scenario Boons already available.
I believe all of the current ones are 0 AcP, although I could imagine future, higher level Scenario Boons having some sort of cost, to represent their rarity.
Totally a guess, though.
I have tried several times. Everytime I refresh my points, I only have AcP. When I try to assign a Scenario Boon to any of my characters that respective scenario is applied to it keeps telling me that I don't qualify for any of the boons other than the AcP list. How can I get that corrected.
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Just to be clear, the boons you are trying to get are for adventures that you played and not GMed?
If that is the case, you should likely contact Tonya or Alex for help. Their preferred method is an email to pfsreportingerrors@paizo.com.
Yes, because I find this system very confusing to Gm so I almost never GM anymore.
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I just tried to purchase the scenario boon for Grim Symphony on the character who played it and it didn't work for me, so I would guess they're still working out the bugs.
Anything we can offer to help you start GMing or learning the system? You can feel free to PM me if you have any questions, or just want to chat.
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I have tried several times. Everytime I refresh my points, I only have AcP. When I try to assign a Scenario Boon to any of my characters that respective scenario is applied to it keeps telling me that I don't qualify for any of the boons other than the AcP list. How can I get that corrected.
First thing you need to make sure is the the game has actually been reported for that character, if that is the case then send an email to the email mentioned. If the games have not been correctly reported then contact the person responsible for reporting the games.
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I have tried several times. Everytime I refresh my points, I only have AcP. When I try to assign a Scenario Boon to any of my characters that respective scenario is applied to it keeps telling me that I don't qualify for any of the boons other than the AcP list. How can I get that corrected.First thing you need to make sure is the the game has actually been reported for that character, if that is the case then send an email to the email mentioned. If the games have not been correctly reported then contact the person responsible for reporting the games.
Yeah, these were from scenarios played several months ago, if not last year. Have messaged the email address, will see what comes of it.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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If some Paizonians think PFS doesn't bring in much revenue, I think Paizo would be filing for bankruptcy and would have laid off a lot of employees without PFS during this pandemic.You might think that, but its not universal to all Paizo staff. There is a greater-than-zero count that really doesn't care about OP and even seems to be quietly hostile towards the concept. They honestly do not believe that org play brings all that much revenue and there wouldn't be a significant drop off if Paizo stopped supporting it. In fact, they might get an overall net gain since org play is such a large advertising cost. All of this is of course kept behind closed doors to avoid the community backlash. It is interesting what you can lean about your "heroes" as a fly on the wall.
You'd probably need to provide more context than what your giving considering that without Pathfinder Society they would probably be down employees. And yes I know presumably Mark wrote class guides but I don't think Linda did.
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Interesting thread. I've been playing RPG's since the 80's. I GM'ed the hardback Rise of the Runelords for a couple of years 10 years ago and then quit. It was at a Con that I saw Organized Play. To be honest, I coveted the paper chronicles, the chance to grow my character throughout the wide RL world.
Plus, my kids were old enough to game and, if you've never RPG'ed with 10-year-olds, there's a couple of things they all want:
1. Make their own characters (no pregens)
2. Have that character be portable to other games (they fall in love with their characters and want to play them with other friends).
Under traditional RPG home games, #2 isn't possible. It is, however, through organized play (though a bit complicated).
Anyway, PFS got me hooked on pathfinder. I run or organized a couple of sessions per week and play PFS when I can. Regarding, the income situation for Paizo, I have like 6 subscriptions, double buy the important rulebooks, and have roped a dozen other people into playing and buying.
PFS was the gateway drug. :)
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Are there missing boons or am I just blind? I played 2-05 & 2-06 recently and can't even see what boons I should have gotten from them and the website seems to be missing.
As a side note, I'm all for moving more digital like seems to be the trend, but I really wish Paizo would better optimize the page to make it more user friendly and less buggy (still don't have many of the faction images show properly)
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Are there missing boons or am I just blind? I played 2-05 & 2-06 recently and can't even see what boons I should have gotten from them and the website seems to be missing.
As a side note, I'm all for moving more digital like seems to be the trend, but I really wish Paizo would better optimize the page to make it more user friendly and less buggy (still don't have many of the faction images show properly)
If you played the adventures didn't you get a chronicle?
Couldn't agree more about how chunky the website is right now.
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Maybe a couple weeks ago or so during one of the many crashes the entire website layout changed momentarily, and posting in the Forums brought up a dialogue box with a window that showed formatting as you typed it.
It was really neat. Got to post a couple times before it crashed again and reverted back to what we have now. But that glimpse leaves me hopeful that the entire website is getting overhauled as we speak.
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Are there missing boons or am I just blind? I played 2-05 & 2-06 recently and can't even see what boons I should have gotten from them and the website seems to be missing.
As a side note, I'm all for moving more digital like seems to be the trend, but I really wish Paizo would better optimize the page to make it more user friendly and less buggy (still don't have many of the faction images show properly)
If you played the adventures didn't you get a chronicle?
Couldn't agree more about how chunky the website is right now.
Yes, I have the chronicle sheet. However with Season 2, they no longer put the boon on the chronicle sheet, you have to go online and download it.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Yes, I have the chronicle sheet. However with Season 2, they no longer put the boon on the chronicle sheet, you have to go online and download it.Are there missing boons or am I just blind? I played 2-05 & 2-06 recently and can't even see what boons I should have gotten from them and the website seems to be missing.
As a side note, I'm all for moving more digital like seems to be the trend, but I really wish Paizo would better optimize the page to make it more user friendly and less buggy (still don't have many of the faction images show properly)
If you played the adventures didn't you get a chronicle?
Couldn't agree more about how chunky the website is right now.
Oh, talking about season 2 after 2-04. Got ya now.
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aeon stone (clear spindle), aeon stone (dull gray), aeon stone (gold nodule), aeon stone (lavender and green ellipsoid), aeon stone (lavender ellipsoid), aeon stone (orange prism), aeon stone (pink rhomboid), aeon stone (tourmaline sphere), bloodletting kukri, brooch of shielding, cape of the mountebank, channel protection amulet, chime of opening, clandestine cloak, dancing rune, dragonslayer’s shield, elven chain, floating shield, forge warden, greater disrupting rune, holy prayer beads, invisibility potion, katana, katar, keen rune, kukri, mending lattice, oil of animation, oil of keen edges, panacea, potion of tongues, ring of counterspells, spell-storing rune, spiked chain, or swift block cabochon
You can take proficiency in any of the weapons above that you do not already have. Fighters have proficiency in all Advanced weapons.
...and most of the things on the boon don't require a specific proficiency.
So useless is an inaccurate description of the boon.