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Really? Huh, I completely missed that about Weydan. I guess I have a new favorite Starfinder deity.
I'd bet Damoritosh is pretty strongly associated with kleptocracy/oligarchy along with a strong dose of authoritarianism and probably some crony/state sponsored capitalism.
The Devourer is all about specifically anti-social nihilism more than anything. Before anyone tries to tie anarchy to him, that's a big no go and a serious misread of anarchist movements. My anarchist friends would be insulted to be compared to him.
Oras and social darwinism and transhumanism, of course. Not that an individual Oras worshipper has to embrace both or either, but he'd definitely appeal to some who embrace those.
Hylax is probably pretty heavily into full communism being a goddess favored by hive minds and favoring community action herself. Ironically, she is noted as working well with that classic god of capitalism Abadar
Hylax is probably pretty heavily into full communism
That would explain why the Swarm is the biggest threat in the Starfinder universe...
Hylax is probably pretty heavily into full communismThat would explain why the Swarm is the biggest threat in the Starfinder universe...
I mean, they turned away from her and embraced forced conformity and what amounts to aggressive imperialism, those aren't traits solely associated with communism.
Also, she's specifically LG in the setting.
Hylax is probably pretty heavily into full communism being a goddess favored by hive minds and favoring community action herself. Ironically, she is noted as working well with that classic god of capitalism AbadarWouldn't Hylax be as anti-hive mind as possible, at least from the perspective of shirren?
She's specifically noted as being worshipped by hive minds, which makes her encouragement of individuality a potentially interesting commentary.
A hive mind is just a single individual spread out across many bodies. They deserve individualism too.
Talavet seems like some sort of clan or other family-unit centered government would be her favorite.
A hive mind is just a single individual spread out across many bodies. They deserve individualism too.
That's what I was trying to imply! Glad I'm not the only one who saw it.
Talavet seems like some sort of clan or other family-unit centered government would be her favorite.
Some sort of oligarchic system with a representative legislature? I don't know the right labels for a clan-based society. An inheritance-based aristocracy doesn't seem like a great fit in my mind.
Something like the Haudenosaunee/Iroquois had seems like the best real-world analog, with a clan representative-based democracy.
Kasath is referenced as having Great Houses, so it’s possible it was run by either competing noble houses or some sort of noble council.
Oh, since someone reminded me Besmara exists in this setting, she's probably a hardcore objectivist/libertarian with anarchic leanings.
Oh, since someone reminded me Besmara exists in this setting, she's probably a hardcore objectivist/libertarian with anarchic leanings.As many problems as I have with Libertarians, I don't think "pirates" really fit in there.
That's why I specified 'Objectivist'. Rand, if memory serves, lionized a pirate that attacked and robbed relief ships heading to famine stricken countries as a paragon of her particular brand of libertarianism in one of her novels.
I like to think that Iomedae is a Benevolent Dictator. Her way is the "best way," and as long as everyone agrees on that, society as whole moves forwards!
...and there's a whole pile of longswords waiting for anyone who disagrees with an ordered, just, society.
Sort of like Havelock Vetenari from the Discworld books but more overtly altruistic.
Oh, since someone reminded me Besmara exists in this setting, she's probably a hardcore objectivist/libertarian with anarchic leanings.
Eh, taking other people's property that they worked for because you're stronger and want it is pretty much the opposite of those philosophies. Abadar is more in line with that.
Fair points all, but I do feel it is more a matter if you view piracy as a vocation of equal 'value' to traditional means of generating wealth. I could still see certain aspects of her faithful using an objectivist framework to justify their actions.
Also, that brings me to another idea. Abadar, as a literal god of wealth probably has aspects of prosperity gospel throughout his dogma.
That operates under the assumption that all theocracies work mostly the same and wouldn't be influenced by social and philosophical trends either encouraged or repressed by that particular god's dogma and faithful.
A Buddhist theocracy would look very different than a Mormon theocracy. Likewise a Pharasmin theocracy would be very different from a Urgathoan theocracy. It being a theocracy does not somehow trump all other aspects of a government or ethical system.
Regardless, that's missing the point of this thread a bit.
Desna, for instance, likely has no interest in actually founding a theocracy.
Then you'd get gods like Desna, to whom a perfect government would probably be something akin to Anarcho-Communism (Everyone's basic needs being met but no one able to systemically stifle the freedom of another). This actively would encourage secular powers to develop outside of the deity's influence.
Deities in Starfinder are also not perfect beings with perfect judgement. They are more powerful than mortals by several systems of magnitude but by virtue of things like their domains or the fact that other gods exist and work at cross purposes, even when sharing aspects of their alignment, very real limits to them are exposed. They also have far, far more important things to be doing than managing the executive and legislative affairs of a single civilization.
On top of all of this. Theocracies are, by their very nature, discriminatory systems of government, and in Paizo products discrimination against groups on cultural grounds is generally portrayed as evil. Good deities would have even more reason to encourage secular systems of government so they do not disenfranchise or cause harm to those belonging to other religions, other philosophies, etc.
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I could see Abadar's perfect economic system being something like the Roman view on wealth. Rome was the holiest city, and as such spending on improving the city was one's religious duty.
With Abadar being a god of civilization and wealth, I imagine that there'd be a strong emphasis on community investment, though it could be out of altruism, following of dogma, or a selfish desire to improve one's image.
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Except instead of a holy city, it would probably be your local AbadarCorp franchise.
AbadarCorp... It's not a company, it's not a church, it's a lifestyle.
Pray now for 5% off your next purchase of 100 credits or more.
I'd imagine that the government that is the closest thing to a Theocracy in Starfinder at the moment (that we know of) is the Veskarium. Since it's essentially a military dictatorship, and the chief vesk deity is Damoritosh, the God of War, I can imagine that Damoritosh's clergy have quite a lot of sway in the halls of power in the Veskarium.
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These are all reasons why Abadar is probably the second most overall powerful and influential of the deities and religions in the setting, following only Triune ( being the purveyor of cheap FTL to the galaxy is worth a *lot* ). It also leads to an interesting philosophical question:
"Abadar is the God of Law and Civilization and Commerce. Anyone engaging in trade or writing and following laws or governing is serving Abadar's domain. As such. . . does this mean that every secular government, simply by engaging in the act of governance over a society, is effectively a 'theocracy' of Abadar? Even if they don't intend it, or actively don't wish it?"
By strictest definition? No. A theocracy involves executive and legislative power being held by the clergy of a specific religion. It would be rather like saying because the LDS church performs post-mortem baptisms by proxy, we should declare the United States a majority Mormon country and Mormon theocracy. Or that any country with a significant English speaking population in governmental roles to be vassal states of England.
There is a difference between association and active influence.
Unless Abadar's clergy are actively exerting executive and legislative power with rules in place barring people of other faiths from governing, it is not a theocracy.
Also, this takes a 'top-down' view of domains, where Abadar's existence is somehow responsible for generating the concepts of law, wealth, and civilization. I find that framework needlessly restrictive and not internally consistent with deities sharing domains and taking domains from each other.
I much rather prefer the 'bottom-up' view, where deities assume and gain power from previously unattended domains. Platonic concept of civilization does flow from Abadar but rather power flows from the countless civilizations into Abadar.
*Platonic concept of civilization does not flow from Abadar but rather power flows from the countless civilizations into Abadar.
Yeah, Hylax specifically rejects hive minds, in the "one group will dominating all" sense. She's all about diplomacy and *voluntary* cooperation, the kind involving multiple individuals working together. Basically, she's the non-stupid version of what Arcadia was supposed to be back in D&D 2e. Its just, "voluntary cooperation" can still come from a perspective that is really, really lawful, seeing group harmony and coordination and mutual concern as the highest achievable virtue.
Does this mean she is "pro communism" in any meaningful sense? Well, sort of yes, but sort of no. A Hylax-dominant society would certainly emphasize collective well-being over individual benefit, sure, but it wouldn't need any particular economic structure for that to be the case. Basically, its the old "Utopia cannot come before the Utopian" truism. Hylax certainly wouldn't be in favor of violent redistribution of wealth or power, at least not without truly extreme justifying necessity. Remember, Hylax is not just a goddess of diplomacy, but also in large degree of pacifism.
So what you're saying is that a Hylax society would look a bit like the Selesnya Conclave from MTG's Ravnica? >.>
From what I've been able to turn up... probably?
I could see an ideal Hylaxian society built around a base commune-type social structure with individuals sharing property and responsibilities. They would probably slot into some sort of representative democracy and economically resemble communism (in that workers would collectively own the companies they were a part of and make decisions as a community).
This get interesting when you consider the hive mind angle. Looking at a hive mind as a single individual distributed over many bodies as opposed to many individuals slaved to a single intelligence... A single Hylaxian commune would likely be composed of billions of bodies but only a handful of individuals scattered over a planet and working together.