So, summoners in PF2 are now Stand users. Is that a good thing?


Summoner Class

101 to 150 of 246 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Pretty sure the barbarian tribes of Numeria don't mess around with tech because one of them actually did set off a nuke.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Pretty sure the barbarian tribes of Numeria don't mess around with tech because one of them actually did set off a nuke.

Suddenly the spell Detect Radiation makes a lot of sense.


The Azlanti had a Synchrony Bomb, and presumably other weapons capable of ending the world.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
The Azlanti had a Synchrony Bomb, and presumably other weapons capable of ending the world.

That would probably end up remaking the world with Aroden as a dinosaur rider.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Themetricsystem wrote:
Ruzza wrote:
graystone wrote:
If you think I'm being offensive flag me.
Sure, definitely a much more reasonable thing to do then asking someone to not just demean and insult entire groups of people. But if that's what you want, okay.

I'm not saying that this is all Jojo fans, anthros, or any other segment of the current nerd-verse that also participates in RPGs but was trying mainly to just speak on my own experience and explain where I am coming from in this.

A half dozen super-weebs and furries caused the evacuation of gamers who all had regularly participated in games in our local scene for over twenty years. Many patrons of our FLGS where we all gathered to game, like me, no longer go to that shop at all except to purchase things, and even then it still means we're less likely to spend money on comics, figures, dice, RPG books, CCG packs, and other art from them, all because a vocal minority moved in without a care in the world for what other people think and in some cases even go out of their way to try and "trigger" folks who'd been playing at that shop since those individuals were in diapers.

If I had a nickel...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Albatoonoe wrote:
I've been into Jojo longer than Pathfinder has been around, so I welcome it. The comparison definitely arose when I looked at the class. Regardless of association, though, I think it is a very good niche to fill. Two beings lives magically linked together is a trope that has definitely stuck around. It is worth exploring and the flavor of the Summoner is a good fit.

Jojo aired in 2012. Pathfinder was published in 2009, predating Jojo by 3 years.

Was Jojo a Manga first?

Edit: Seems there was a manga that started in 1987.

Jesus christ man, Jojo has been around since....Yeah, 1987. I remember when people first started complaining about newcomers to the series because of the freaking OVA.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
YawarFiesta wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
The Azlanti had a Synchrony Bomb, and presumably other weapons capable of ending the world.
That would probably end up remaking the world with Aroden as a dinosaur rider.

The worst part about this comment is that I can't tell if this is a Jojo reference or not. Too bad I'm anime only or I'd know for sure.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Falgaia wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
The Azlanti had a Synchrony Bomb, and presumably other weapons capable of ending the world.
That would probably end up remaking the world with Aroden as a dinosaur rider.
The worst part about this comment is that I can't tell if this is a Jojo reference or not. Too bad I'm anime only or I'd know for sure.

It is. I think.

Honestly, i felt like the 3-4 comments above yours were references, but that might just be the fact that 30 years gives a series time to go places. So while it seems like a reference, it could just be a random selection of words that just happens to match up well with jojo.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
lemeres wrote:
Falgaia wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
The Azlanti had a Synchrony Bomb, and presumably other weapons capable of ending the world.
That would probably end up remaking the world with Aroden as a dinosaur rider.
The worst part about this comment is that I can't tell if this is a Jojo reference or not. Too bad I'm anime only or I'd know for sure.

It is. I think.

Honestly, i felt like the 3-4 comments above yours were references, but that might just be the fact that 30 years gives a series time to go places. So while it seems like a reference, it could just be a random selection of words that just happens to match up well with jojo.

Yeah, when Pucci uses Made in Heaven to remake the universe, the new Dio is a British horse jockey that can turn into a dinosaur.

A personal joy of mine is describing JoJo plotlines.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, so if anyone's this deep in the thread and is curious as to why people like the Jo And Jo, I'll predate my post with an explanation.

An Explanation:

In short, Jojo's is just... fun. The first season is mostly straight-laced, but as early as part 2 (which predates Stands) you start seeing the signature elements like the goofy poses, ridiculous character designs, and fights that play out like tactical Rube Goldberg machines. Many battles are less brawls and more creative puzzle solving to understand and eventually counter the enemy's seemingly unbeatable ability. And as a fun tidbit, every character (and most Stands) are named directly after musicians and their work. My favorite season has a stand called Crazy Diamond fight against Killer Queen, the later of which has an attack called Bites The Dust.

Here are some iconic scenes, sans context.

- A trickster meathead protag outwits vampires that look like Aztec Fitness Gods by breathing so good that it invokes magic sunlight punching powers.
- A protagonist has to beat a bad guy at a videogame called "Oh! That's a Baseball!!" or risk having his soul sucked out and put into a doll.
- There's a guy who's stand gives him the power to make Italian cooking so good that it fixes your posture.
- Freddy Kruger but controlled by a malevolent baby.
- Man with tornado fists fights a guy who throws razor-edged bubbles and people have been brought to tears by the end of it.

The series thrives on its uniqueness, even on itself. Each season of the anime has a different feel compared to others, from an around-the-world adventures to a spooky small town murder mystery to a supernatural mob drama.

At this point, if you're still curious then only thing I can really recommend is to just watch a few episodes and see for yourself. Give it a try! Starting with any season is fine, since the ongoing story isn't too complicated, but I'd suggest part 3 or later if you're specifically curious about Stands.

Anyway. The whole "summoner is JoJo's" thing isn't even that new, once you think about it. First edition's take on eidolons had a very Jojo's Part 3, vibe to it, when the stands had basic combat oriented powers like "uses sword good" and "attacks with fire, except when disarmed." Meanwhile, the spiritualist had more of a Part 4 feel, when the indirect and emotion focused powers were more like the weird and tricky powers required strategy and didn't always suit a brute force approach. Heck, my Vanguard's powers feel a lot like Okuyasu's The Hand.

The new shared HP system and rapid deployment summoning certainly makes it easier to replicate the feel, but the playest's current state only truly gives me these vibes when I look at the phantom eidolon. The beast eidolon's chimeric nature makes me imagine something more like Pokemon or a traditional Final Fantasy summon, while Dragon is giving me the most wonderful Breath of Fire vibes.

And call me a contrarian, but my take on Angel Synthesis is going to be a fleshy, bio-morphic horror with a corrupted church motif. Like what if a nun turned herself inside out and surprise it was John Carpenter's The Thing all along.


Rosc wrote:
n short, Jojo's is just... fun.

I respectfully disagree. ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Rosc wrote:
n short, Jojo's is just... fun.
I respectfully disagree. ;)

Really? You seem to enjoy discussing Jojo at the very least ;)

Yawar


1 person marked this as a favorite.
YawarFiesta wrote:
graystone wrote:
Rosc wrote:
n short, Jojo's is just... fun.
I respectfully disagree. ;)

Really? You seem to enjoy discussing Jojo at the very least ;)

Yawar

Enjoy is a strong word. I'm more here as a protest for all those people that aren't thrilled with it but have people that they know that REALLY, REALLY like it and can't shut up out how much they like it and if you just read 40 years of manga and 20 years of anime you're sure to love it as much as they do. :P

Seriously though, I'd most likely not dislike it as much as I do if I didn't have people keep trying to get me to change my opinion. It's like Attack on Titan: I have people trying to get me to like it but I can't get past those super lame giants. Every time I see them I throw up my hands and say to myself 'nope, can't do it'.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Never knew about it before the anime myself. Tried the first couple of episodes and found that I just couldn't stand that style of animation and humor. It just didn't make me laugh or get me riled up (at least, not in a good way).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:
graystone wrote:
Rosc wrote:
n short, Jojo's is just... fun.
I respectfully disagree. ;)

Really? You seem to enjoy discussing Jojo at the very least ;)

Yawar

Enjoy is a strong word. I'm more here as a protest for all those people that aren't thrilled with it but have people that they know that REALLY, REALLY like it and can't shut up out how much they like it and if you just read 40 years of manga and 20 years of anime you're sure to love it as much as they do. :P

Seriously though, I'd most likely not dislike it as much as I do if I didn't have people keep trying to get me to change my opinion. It's like Attack on Titan: I have people trying to get me to like it but I can't get past those super lame giants. Every time I see them I throw up my hands and say to myself 'nope, can't do it'.

I understand, I have the same issues with One Piece. However, TTRPGs, forums, friendship have social contracts and you came willingly to a JoJo thread.

Humbly,
Yawar


Ravingdork wrote:
Never knew about it before the anime myself. Tried the first couple of episodes and found that I just couldn't stand that style of animation and humor. It just didn't make me laugh or get me riled up (at least, not in a good way).

Yes, this pretty much encapsulates my thought too: I'm someone that if I can't get into the art style it just ruins things for me. The humor, as you mentioned, didn't click with me either, but that was secondary to me.

YawarFiesta wrote:

I understand, I have the same issues with One Piece. However, TTRPGs, forums, friendship have social contracts and you came willingly to a JoJo thread.

Humbly,
Yawar

Well, the thread title DOES ask "IS THAT A GOOD THING?" so it's not just asking for positive jojo feedback. My reply that it's not a good thing is a perfect reasonable reply. ;)

Scarab Sages

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Since people are still talking about it for those interested:

I really don't recommend starting Jojo from Episode 1. Part 1 is a rough entry point that isn't for everyone and takes awhile to get the ball rolling. I only got my brother on-board after we got into Part 3 watching it chronologically, but after that point he was about it. Whenever I ask him about the earlier stuff, he admits that his brain just blacked out most of it.

If you're curious for parts and episodes that people like and talk about outside of dumb memes, either start from S4 (small town horror flavor) or S5 (eccentric mafia fight flavor), or, if you want a good one-shot fight that's easy to find, watch the first episode of Season 3 for one of the best sniper fights in Anime. If any of those interest you, you can go and watch the earlier stuff for a minor amount of background context later; I really don't recommend anyone start from Season 1. The later parts honestly have so little to do with Season 1 that they might as well be a spin-off series.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Never knew about it before the anime myself. Tried the first couple of episodes and found that I just couldn't stand that style of animation and humor. It just didn't make me laugh or get me riled up (at least, not in a good way).

The animation seems to be heavily stylized based on the part you're watching (at least, insofar as the first three go) - I was ok with the first, loved the animation in the second, and despite being a long time reader stalled out in the third party because I wasn't a fan of the new style.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

I just found out about the playtest, got the PDF, looked at Summoner, and (after the terminology itself reminding me of Final Fantasy 9) my mind immediately thought of Stands and I came to this forum curious as to whether I wasn't alone. Yes, the general idea of having some sort of spirit bound to you and assisting you is not rare, but there's something particular about Stands that, in my experience, is fairly rare (with Persona being one of the only things I know that clearly utilizes it) and the Summoner class hit that (at least the early Part 3 style, obviously the increasing variation later on isn't really possible to turn into a single class in any game) in an immediately exciting and "grokkable" way for me. If the class was like that before I don't know, my exposure to Pathfinder 1E is very limited.

At the same time, the Summoner does this in a general enough manner, using evocative fantasy concepts that fit right into Pathfinder's class patterns, that I think it's really neat. If the reference is intentional (and I have no idea if it actually is), it doesn't feel out of place, and that's great. I would feel embarrassed if it felt like it was shoehorned in.

I came here in part to suggest an Eidolon type that was some sort of manifestation of your inner will (like the Barbarian's Fury Instinct is said to come from themselves instead of a greater power) as a fun nod because I still didn't think it would feel out of place considering that precedent.

What I did not expect was to come here and feel miserable. I don't know if it's better to report this somewhere than say it out in the open, but voicing the concern can bring positive awareness. This thread had a mostly innocuous title and a totally neutral first post, but somehow this became a judge on people's character. It feels really horrible to be a fan of something and not even be able to bring it up in a fair context without somehow starting a flame war. I almost didn't click this thread because I had a feeling this would happen and it's sad to be vindicated about that.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
TheRabidOgre wrote:

I just found out about the playtest, got the PDF, looked at Summoner, and (after the terminology itself reminding me of Final Fantasy 9) my mind immediately thought of Stands and I came to this forum curious as to whether I wasn't alone. Yes, the general idea of having some sort of spirit bound to you and assisting you is not rare, but there's something particular about Stands that, in my experience, is fairly rare (with Persona being one of the only things I know that clearly reference it) and the Summoner class hit that (at least the early Part 3 style, obviously the increasing variation later on isn't really possible to turn into a single class in any game) in an immediately exciting and "grokkable" way for me. If the class was like that before I don't know, my exposure to Pathfinder 1E is very limited.

At the same time, the Summoner does this in a general enough manner, using evocative fantasy concepts that fit right into Pathfinder's class patterns, that I think it's really neat. If the reference is intentional (and I have no idea if it actually is), it doesn't feel out of place, and that's great. I would feel embarrassed if it felt like it was shoehorned in.

I came here in part to suggest an Eidolon type that was some sort of manifestation of your inner will (like the Barbarian's Fury Instinct is said to come from themselves instead of a greater power) as a fun nod because I still didn't think it would feel out of place considering that precedent.

What I did not expect was to come here and feel miserable. I don't know if it's better to report this somewhere than say it out in the open, but voicing the concern can bring positive awareness. This thread had a mostly innocuous title and a totally neutral first post, but somehow this became a judge on people's character. It feels really horrible to be a fan of something and not even be able to bring it up in a fair context without somehow starting a flame war. I almost didn't click this thread because I had a feeling this would happen...

Sorry about the bad experience. I've jokingly referred to this playtest forum as a bad take graveyard (on all sides, including my own, before anyone accuses me of trying to make this a callout) where fun goes to die in conversations with friends outside of it.

Admittedly this subforum is turbulent and draining at the best of times and outright hostile at others as a result of how the Summoner from 1e was a class that many had strong emotional ties to, so if you're not up for dealing with that sort of thing it might be best to just voice your thoughts on the survey while avoiding this subforum. I can affirm that, at least on my end, my happiest days from this past month were when I didn't check in on this forum, so take from that what you will. I hope it doesn't get in the way of you enjoying the class.

P.S. Honestly your idea sounds rad, I'll be sure to include it in my survey response as a suggestion as well. It might be something that ends up having to wait in the idea bin until we get Psychic casting, (assuming it ever becomes a tradition in PF2,) but it'd be a fun concept to play around with for even more accurate Stands and such while still being super-open for player aesthetic customization, which seems like it'd fit in pretty well with what Paizo seems to be going for with Eidolons. Good stuff.


I am hoping Eidolons would be able o benefit directly from archetypes unique powers and customizations directly, as if it were an evolution feat.

Humbly,
Yawar

Liberty's Edge

EOT: I'm pretty sure graystone was being a bit tongue in cheek and failed to include a '/s' tag at the end of the first statement...

That said, this is nothing like that situation you outlined. This is more akin to someone being upset that their favorite multiplayer online game had a new character added to it that doesn't fit the art direction or theme of the game itself and is (reasonably concerned) that it will end up drawing a bunch of folks from 'stan twitter' to the community.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can we let this thread go? I was excited to see others get the comparison and now I'm just sad and disappointed to see how little tolerance there is for it.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.

People seem to love it or hate it: Watch an episode or two [or read a chapter or 2] and see if it works for you.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.

Part 3, Stardust Crusaders, is by far the most iconic imo.

But I think the anime version of Part 2 is my favorite.

...be prepared for weird.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
KrispyXIV wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.

Part 3, Stardust Crusaders, is by far the most iconic imo.

But I think the anime version of Part 2 is my favorite.

...be prepared for weird.

Oh I am very much aware of the weird :3

Scarab Sages

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Came here excited that JJBA Stand users could decently be replicated with the Summoner playtest, especially when I saw someone with a thread mentioning it before I got here.

Disappointed to see a sizable part of the thread is people crying wrongbadfun. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is that Paizo works well to make most fantasy concepts able to be replicated in their rules, kind of a bummer for this to be met with such vitriol.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Segovax wrote:

Came here excited that JJBA Stand users could decently be replicated with the Summoner playtest, especially when I saw someone with a thread mentioning it before I got here.

Disappointed to see a sizable part of the thread is people crying wrongbadfun. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is that Paizo works well to make most fantasy concepts able to be replicated in their rules, kind of a bummer for this to be met with such vitriol.

Don't let other people be down on your concepts!

The fact that a "Stand" is one of several totally valid options is absolutely awesome.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Segovax wrote:

Came here excited that JJBA Stand users could decently be replicated with the Summoner playtest, especially when I saw someone with a thread mentioning it before I got here.

Disappointed to see a sizable part of the thread is people crying wrongbadfun. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is that Paizo works well to make most fantasy concepts able to be replicated in their rules, kind of a bummer for this to be met with such vitriol.

Don't let a rather small portion of the community ruin your fun. Personally, I hate the Jojo anime and find it idiotic (though am an Anime fan overall). That said, many people likely think the animes I like are bad (such as Goblin Slayer).

If you like it, get excited by the fact you you can recreate something you like.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Segovax wrote:

Came here excited that JJBA Stand users could decently be replicated with the Summoner playtest, especially when I saw someone with a thread mentioning it before I got here.

Disappointed to see a sizable part of the thread is people crying wrongbadfun. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is that Paizo works well to make most fantasy concepts able to be replicated in their rules, kind of a bummer for this to be met with such vitriol.

i think you misunderstood what people are saying they are fine with you being able to play a stand they just don't want to be forced to play one those are completely different things its not wrongbadfun its dontstealmychoice


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ArchSage20 wrote:
Segovax wrote:

Came here excited that JJBA Stand users could decently be replicated with the Summoner playtest, especially when I saw someone with a thread mentioning it before I got here.

Disappointed to see a sizable part of the thread is people crying wrongbadfun. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder is that Paizo works well to make most fantasy concepts able to be replicated in their rules, kind of a bummer for this to be met with such vitriol.

i think you misunderstood what people are saying they are fine with you being able to play a stand they just don't want to be forced to play one those are completely different things its not wrongbadfun its dontstealmychoice

Yeah, me hating jojo isn't me saying others shouldn't enjoy it. Jojo talk just gives ME flashbacks to people telling me it's wrongbadfun that I do not LOVE it with my entire being... :P

But, yeah, if it's your thing Segovax, I don't think anyone here is telling you to stop. I just personally start tuning out when jojo comes up from jojo ptsd.

Invictus Novo wrote:
Personally, I hate the Jojo anime and find it idiotic (though am an Anime fan overall). That said, many people likely think the animes I like are bad (such as Goblin Slayer).

If you like anime, you're good in my book. *thumbs up* ;)


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I want Eidolons to work not only for JoJo stands but for other anime aswell.

*.I would love to be able to replicate the Fate Series in which the Eidolon can go where ever they want with no time limit (or at least very far). Without me having to use up my actions to have the eidolon move.

* I would love if the Eidolon could replicate pokemons where it has special abilities that only monsters have.

* I would love if I could replicate Guyver/Akame Ga Kill. Where the Eidolon is a suit that gives me special abilities.

* I would love to be able to replicate Naruto Summons. Where I can summon an animal-like creature and it takes its own actions.

* I would love to be able to replicate things like Cerberus, Quetzalcoatl, Kamis, Armor Suits (like FM:B), Demons, Tentacle monsters, Ghostly Shadows, Astral creatures that can enhance summoned monsters (PF1 Unchained Astral Eidolon), etc.

All those things are impossible because the Eidolon in the playtest can only act as a JoJo stands at best. At worst they are no better that dolls the player controls.

The problem is not that the eidolon behaves like a JoJo stand. There is no problem with people wanting that. The problem is that Paizo has made it so that the only eidolon you can make are JoJo stands. All the mechanical customizability that made Eidolons flexible enough work for any number of designs was removed from the class without even a trace. All that was left was the part that made it resemble JoJo, which was then double down and shoved down out troats.

Which is why I pushed for seperate HP and actions. Because that allows both creatures to be independent with a lifelink you have to choose to use. This lets people choose how they support the summon, and can flavor it as anything.

What made PF1 work so well is that Summoner had very little lore in its mechanics. It told us how the class worked, but left it to GM's and players to iron out the vast amount of details. You could have your JoJo stand, I could have my Flying Shadow Chinese Dragon with innate concealment, and everyone else could have the Eidolon they wanted. That is why customization, so everyone is free to make what they want within the limits of PF2 balance numbers.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
I just personally start tuning out when jojo comes up from jojo ptsd.

It would be much appreciated if you tuned out a little harder. Your claim of giving negative feedback appropriate to the thread topic is total bunk, seeing as the actual topic was about how well Summoners and their Eidolons can emulate stands, and (implicitly) whether they're meant to be direct references in the first place. All of your repeated first posts were just you complaining about JoJo. You've barely mentioned the class or engaged with that original topic, nor even really the title, instead being a black hole for positivity defending your presence more than anything else. The kind of behavior that makes me wish this forum had a mute or block function -- I suppose I can find a script somewhere.

Anyway, though they can definitely be flavored that way, I don't agree that Eidolons actually map to Stands super well, and I also don't think that's an intention of the class (and, thus, a failing of it). I'd call them halfway between the typical conception of a summon and the typical melee Stand, with some mechanical distinction of their own. Which is nice, because it makes it fairly simple to flavor them as dubiously "alive" spiritual protectors and weapons, mindless puppet summons as or more competent than their Summoners, or living but long-distance partners.

If Paizo actually set out to make a whole-cloth reference class, they'd almost certainly get reactions of not doing enough or being inaccurate, given the design paradigms of PF2. And as far as I can tell, both thematically and mechanically, PF2 Eidolons only emulate themselves particularly precisely. All imported concepts have mechanical compromises to make -- Eidolons as Stands doesn't strike me as different in that regard or needing to be different. (Even my pet conception of Eidolons as Legions from Astral Chain (minus the police branding) isn't likely to be very 1-to-1, despite their being simpler than Stands on the whole. :b ) Of course, I still certainly wouldn't complain about getting more variety in what they can do and how they can be built!


Alfa/Polaris wrote:
graystone wrote:
I just personally start tuning out when jojo comes up from jojo ptsd.

It would be much appreciated if you tuned out a little harder. Your claim of giving negative feedback appropriate to the thread topic is total bunk, seeing as the actual topic was about how well Summoners and their Eidolons can emulate stands, and (implicitly) whether they're meant to be direct references in the first place. All of your repeated first posts were just you complaining about JoJo. You've barely mentioned the class or engaged with that original topic, nor even really the title, instead being a black hole for positivity defending your presence more than anything else. The kind of behavior that makes me wish this forum had a mute or block function -- I suppose I can find a script somewhere.

Anyway, though they can definitely be flavored that way, I don't agree that Eidolons actually map to Stands super well, and I also don't think that's an intention of the class (and, thus, a failing of it). I'd call them halfway between the typical conception of a summon and the typical melee Stand, with some mechanical distinction of their own. Which is nice, because it makes it fairly simple to flavor them as dubiously "alive" spiritual protectors and weapons, mindless puppet summons as or more competent than their Summoners, or living but long-distance partners.

If Paizo actually set out to make a whole-cloth reference class, they'd almost certainly get reactions of not doing enough or being inaccurate, given the design paradigms of PF2. And as far as I can tell, both thematically and mechanically, PF2 Eidolons only emulate themselves particularly precisely. All imported concepts have mechanical compromises to make -- Eidolons as Stands doesn't strike me as different in that regard or needing to be different. (Even my pet conception of Eidolons as Legions from Astral Chain (minus the police branding) isn't likely to be very 1-to-1, despite their being simpler than Stands on the whole. :b ) Of course, I still...

Graystones reply were to the effect that summoner is too much of a stand user and their displeasure about it.

Which in my opinion Graystone is entirely correct. Because Eidolons are not supposed to just be Stands, which is what the current summoners are.

I dont want a stand eidolon. I dont want to be forced to use a stand eidolon.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alfa/Polaris wrote:
All of your repeated first posts were just you complaining about JoJo.

And? I never claimed they weren't. The title asks "is it a good thing?" so if I don't think jojo is a good thing, and the title already links the two, why isn't it about the thread question about stand users comparison to Sumoners?

Alfa/Polaris wrote:
You've barely mentioned the class or engaged with that original topic

*looks at title* "SO, SUMMONERS IN PF2 ARE NOW STAND USERS. IS THAT A GOOD THING?" How is talking about jojo, the source of stands, not "engaged with that original topic"? If you don't want talk about jojo, why bring up stands?

Let me ask you a question. If you loathe my posts, why reply to them? The quickest way to not see me post is to not reply to me. Why engage a "black hole"? To be the arbiter of what others post? If others hadn't replied to me, I'd have had a single post grumbling about jojo and it would have ended. I wasn't posting to my self in this thread.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.
People seem to love it or hate it: Watch an episode or two [or read a chapter or 2] and see if it works for you.

I don't know if 1 -2 episodes is enough to get the feel for it. I watched the whole section of the vampire part but then lost interest quick during the stand part.


Oh and coming from someone who has wanted to throw Graystone under a bus. The anti Graystone response is way over the top.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Vidmaster7 wrote:
graystone wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I haven’t watched/read any Jojo but from what I’ve seen posted here and elsewhere (got some friends that love it), it seems really cool.
People seem to love it or hate it: Watch an episode or two [or read a chapter or 2] and see if it works for you.
I don't know if 1 -2 episodes is enough to get the feel for it. I watched the whole section of the vampire part but then lost interest quick during the stand part.

For myself, I usually know in an episode or 2 if I'll like something. Of course, things can always take a turn you don't like [or didn't improve as you thought it might] and I drop it latter.

Vidmaster7 wrote:
Oh and coming from someone who has wanted to throw Graystone under a bus. The anti Graystone response is way over the top.

Non-positive Jojo comments tends to bring out the 'true believers': I have less intense conversations about religion or politics. It's something I've encountered over the years and it's something that helps pushes my dislike the series into hating it. ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

All I can say is that I'm seeing more Dios and not enough Gang-stars in this thread. No need to be so harsh to graystone there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Oh and coming from someone who has wanted to throw Graystone under a bus. The anti Graystone response is way over the top.

Maybe so. I wanted to address something I hadn't seen addressed elsewhere in the (slight wreck of a) thread, but there's always the possibility of being overzealous.

(For the record, I've never watched/read much JoJo and am not a particular fan, if for some reason that's relevant. Communities can be filled with more people of certain conduct than others, but on the individual level, what conduct is displayed is more important than what interests are held.)


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I don’t want Summoners to have Stand-like Eidolons. I want Eidolons to be outsiders/separate, summoned planar entities, summoned by Summoners. Having said that, I’m not sure PF2 has outsiders like they were in PF1.

Having said that, I’mall for people reskinning any element of their games to suit their shared-agreememt theme/style/story.

Mechanically, I’d like an eidolon with evolution points/suites to create incredibly diverse forms/options, like the original PF1 summoner before Unchained. It’s not gonna happen.

I also want the eidolon to have its own actions, not use part of the Summoner’s action economy. Doesn’t seem likely.

I have a feeling Summoners will end up like multiclassing in PF2 - something I will have to accept, and if I use it will be with a hollow yearning for something I really liked but that is, sadly, untenable in the new system.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

As someone who runs several PbP, seems like a weird way to look for friends, by isolating potential GMs.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Heh, well, first I’m looking for a GM, not necessarily a friend. The amazing thing about PbP is that I don’t know any of the people I play with.

Now you might reply: “But your conduct is such that you would alienate potential GM’s”. My rejoinder “I have only exposed my bias and beliefs, and can thus filter those who may not “like” me, though a larger person may not automatically rebuff me for having different beliefs, though it would take an exceptionally large hearted person to accept (where they do not like it) the expression of my bias.”

As someone who plays in several PbPs, and who is at times asked to join others, and at others has cold-canvassed GMs successfully to let me into their games I’m ok with my “approach” to levity and life. I understand PbPs are a niche market in a niche market, but I’d rather be myself and find those who can bear me than hide my nature in the hopes of being accepted by any group. As my characters often opine: “It’s what my player would do.”

I’m pretty straight up, very opinionated, quick to take offense at the strangest of things, equally quick to get over it and admit it, though I sometimes don’t. I’m honest about wanting the best for the game and the people who play it, even though the game and the people irk me to no end. Simply put, I’m one of us on these boards. If that is “weird”, then guilty as charged.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So to answer my question then, no.

1 to 50 of 246 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Secrets of Magic Playtest / Summoner Class / So, summoners in PF2 are now Stand users. Is that a good thing? All Messageboards