Do I have to announce ahead of time I'm using "Improved Knockdown" or could I use a strike, and if I hit I then say "ok I'm using Improved Knockdown to trip the enemy now"? Or is it automatically a two action cost no matter what I do?
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Improved Knockdown only affects what happens when you use Knockdown, not what happens to arbitrary Strikes. You say "I'm using Knockdown," which takes two actions, and then you follow the modified rules for it under Improved Knockdown if you have that.
Thanks Fuzzy, sounds right.
"If you do and your Strike hits, you also apply the critical success effect of a Trip. If you used a two-handed melee weapon for the Strike, you can use the weapon’s damage die size instead of the regular die size for the damage from a critical Trip."
If I were wielding a Greatpick would that be a D10? Or D12?
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d12. 'Fatal' is quite harsh :)
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Your logic seems sound to me, Bast. I wonder if they meant to do that / realized they'd done that?
What's neat is, unlike regular knockdown, you don't actually trip the enemy, you just apply the effect of a critical trip on it. So, maybe you don't even need titan wrestler to use it on big enemies? After all, the trip action has a requirement, but you're just applying a critical success effect from trip... and that effect has no requirements...
Maybe
I'd say a Trip is a Trip. Yes, you get the effect of a critical Trip, but if the target is too big, it's still immune to your Trip. A critical success doesn't change the size limitation. Otherwise they could just have said the target is knocked prone.
But it's not a trip. It says "When you use Knockdown, instead of making a Strike followed by a Trip, you can attempt a single Strike. If you do and your Strike hits, you also apply the critical success effect of a Trip."
You're not doing the trip action, so you don't have to meet the requirements of the trip action.
Agree to disagree, I guess. Unless something specifically calls out ignoring requirements, it shouldn't ignore requirements.
One could argue intent. I truly don't know the intent. If you compare to a monster's knockdown or improved knockdown, those don't have size limitations. Also, a druid's wolf pet doesn't worry about size, just automatically knocks down on a hit (at 8+).
Except none of those say "you get the (critical) success of a Trip". They all just say "knock the target prone".
Edit: regarding why they didn't say the target is knocked prone, the critical success effect of a trip also damages the target, which is better than just knocking it down.
They could also just say "The target is knocked prone and takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage or damage equal to one weapon dice if your weapon is two-handed." That would even be shorter than the version in the book.
Further Edit: Something even more glorious about Improved Knockdown is that you don't have to worry about free hands, or trip traits, or using a 2H weapon (well, 2H affects the damage, but you can apply trip critical with any kind of strike).
This allows for a sword and board, flickmace, fighter champion with many reactions knockdown monstrosity at 15+ (use Improved Flexibility to get Knockdown and Improved Knockdown). Champion reaction from MC, Combat Reflexes for an extra AoO (useful when foe is getting up), Quick Shield block for extra reaction to block, Dwarf adoption for unburdened iron, dwarven reinforcements, mountain's stoutness, and telluric power (though that loses effect when you knock them down?). Also, the flickmace critical effect is to knock them prone too, (no size limit there either), so decent chance to knock them down when they stand up, with your AoO.
And none of that seems to you like it might be affected by the "too good to be true" rule...?
Also it doesn't work from my reading. You're still using Knockdown since Improved Knockdown says "When you use Knockdown, instead…"
So you need a free hand if you're not using a two-handed weapon.
I see how one could read it your way, but for a level 10 feat, that's WAY too far into the "too good to be true" direction.
Ya I mean if a level 2 Feat like Combat Grab ignores size limitations, it's more then reasonable for a level 10 feat to ignore it.
One question, if I use just standard Knockdown and miss with the initial strike does that still cost me two actions automatically?
Yes. As soon as you say "I use Knockdown" it sucks up your next two actions. No refunds :)
The risks are high for sure without the Improved version
It's the same deal as every other two-action attack.
IMHO it's kind of meh until you get the Improved version, but the combination is worth two feats.
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Does the attack from improved knockdown still count as two attacks regarding MAP?
No. Knockdown says "both attacks count towards MAP," but with Improved Knockdown you're no longer making two attacks. Your Strike is the only thing you do with the attack trait. (That it also applies the critical success of a Trip is irrelevant.)