Charismatic and Forever Young?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Greetings everyone.

I want to build an "Eternal King" of sorts. I'll be using the Kingmaker/Ultimate Campaign rules from the 1st edition (while desperately patiently waiting for such Settlement rules for 2nd edition (any update on that, btw?).

I bought the Advanced Player's Guide certain that would be a ritual of Eternal Youth or something similar (I know there are no benefits for old age, it's just fluff, but #fluffmatters), but there's nothing of the sort.

The only two "official" ways to, as written "cease aging", are Timeless Body (Monk 14) and Timeless Nature (Druid 14). In my head I was hoping to make a Bard (Warrior muse is broken? I didn't read in-depth, but making allies Stride and Strike or make two allies Strike when one of them critically hits and even, with a Performance check, prevent a caster from spending a Focus Point or Spell Slot, sounds... "too" useful? If there is such thing) or Sorcerer, bohemian in behavior, diplomatic, saavy, even a non-optimal Swashbuckler with more Charisma and charm than skill.

But I can't find any way (official way, at least) to make them Forever Young (I guess there's the clone spell, but it isn't quite the same, is it? There's a passage mentioning Pharasma getting upset and I'd prefer to avoid that).

In short, any way I could make a Charismatic character "live forever". Can I get those feats from Druid or Monk being another class?


You could always do Monk with rogue archtype and be a flamboyant neer-do-well and get the 14th lvl Timeless body feat. You don't mind being less than "optimal" from your description.


Threefold aspect works for your purpose as long as you can continuously sustain it.

Or at least it might, some GMs might argue you still age internally despite the spell obviously changing internals as well as externals and not being an illusion.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Or, if you just want to seem forever young relative to humans, you could simply play an elf.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Threefold aspect works for your purpose as long as you can continuously sustain it.

Or at least it might, some GMs might argue you still age internally despite the spell obviously changing internals as well as externals and not being an illusion.

Didn't see that. I guess it checks! Could make a Primal Sorcerer or Bard and would have the spell, which physically rejuvenates me every morning. Even if the "still die when their time comes" were a thing, that time wouldn't come cause I'd keep postponing it with magic.

Thank you Grognard!


Invictus Spartan wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Threefold aspect works for your purpose as long as you can continuously sustain it.

Or at least it might, some GMs might argue you still age internally despite the spell obviously changing internals as well as externals and not being an illusion.

Didn't see that. I guess it checks! Could make a Primal Sorcerer or Bard and would have the spell, which physically rejuvenates me every morning. Even if the "still die when their time comes" were a thing, that time wouldn't come cause I'd keep postponing it with magic.

Thank you Grognard!

And remember, sustained not recast each morning. As long as you don't fail to make daily preparations you never drop the spell. You lose one spell slot but gain a form that can change from young to old as many times as you want in a single action :)


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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Threefold aspect works for your purpose as long as you can continuously sustain it.

Or at least it might, some GMs might argue you still age internally despite the spell obviously changing internals as well as externals and not being an illusion.

I think the problem is sustaining it, and as a GM I would still say you die when you reach the age limit for your race (although I don't think that information transferred editions because it's not typically relevant).

Not sure if that sort of thing is important or not to the OP but if the ritual drops you return to your true age, which could mean death or at least inconvenience if you've reached an incredibly old age.

Peronsally I don't see threefold aspect extending your life beyond what it could naturally be, but that you could appear to be young until you drop dead of "old age".


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

We got some settlement rules in the game mastery guide.


Captain Morgan wrote:
We got some settlement rules in the game mastery guide.

I had no idea this book existed! Thank you so much.

Claxon wrote:
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Threefold aspect works for your purpose as long as you can continuously sustain it.

Or at least it might, some GMs might argue you still age internally despite the spell obviously changing internals as well as externals and not being an illusion.

I think the problem is sustaining it, and as a GM I would still say you die when you reach the age limit for your race (although I don't think that information transferred editions because it's not typically relevant).

Not sure if that sort of thing is important or not to the OP but if the ritual drops you return to your true age, which could mean death or at least inconvenience if you've reached an incredibly old age.

Peronsally I don't see threefold aspect extending your life beyond what it could naturally be, but that you could appear to be young until you drop dead of "old age".

Makes sense. My idea was to make a human-aasimar, so I'd die with 110 years old (70+2d20, if memory serves me from 1st edition) while looking like I'm in my mid 20s? On the other hand, doesn't "max age for race" happens due to the biology of that ancestry (for example, we have humans who are over 110 years old). Therefore if the spell that polymorphs my insides, I'd still have the heart and lungs of a healthy 20-something. I guess the problem would be if a Psychopomp would show up one day and "it's time to go" me, which, for some reason, I don't think would be the case for Timeless Body/Nature.

I'm still open to suggestions if more people have it!

Verdant Wheel

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If you want some basis for that and don't mind asking the GM (which you'd have to do for Threefold Aspect anyway), the Blessed Background could also help. It's supposed to have more mechanical relevance, so the GM might still give you the at-will guidance to represent your advanced and slightly-divine experience, especially since living a long time doesn't really do much in a campaign. You'd have to determine why you got that boon and why Pharasma's chill with it, but there are tons of ways to finagle that in the lore so long as you stay in whatever deity's good graces.
Perhaps, to give the GM that plot-hook gleam in their eye, you could opt into an Anathema and Edict that you have to follow to maintain the long life? Could be fun! Maybe Grandmother Spider has freed you from the shackles of time, but in return you must never harm a spider? Perhaps Gorum has bound your soul to your blade, and you must maintain its perfection to retain your youth? Maybe even Pharasma herself sees you as a more useful agent on-the-ground, and you must constantly work to vanquish undead...

If you really wanted to jam some divine intervention up your character's nose, you could even channel that Charisma into the Oracle class. A fun Mystery could be Tempest; even the weather thinks it's uncool that you've lived this long... but, hey, you always have a dramatic wind a'ruffling your cape!

If we speak purely mechanically, however... Threefold Aspect can be foiled with a particularly perceptive Seek action, so I'm not sure it really does much for your innards. Even if it's better than skin-deep, aging is super complex and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that a third-level Bard spell is going to reverse it forever when that usually requires super-human mastery of one's body (Monk) or an arrangement with the forces of nature (Druid). Could definitely help you seem a lot younger than you are though!

Liberty's Edge

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At least one NPC in-setting uses Reincarnate to do this. That absolutely works, and given that it's a Ritual, requires no specific Class. It does require you to do it repeatedly, and being dead, and thus requires allies to perform the ritual, but it works. Getting back to your base Ancestry is a bit tricky, but Wish, Miracle, or Alter Reality probably work for that at GM discretion.

The Sun Orchid Elixir also solves this problem in-setting, though that requires rather ludicrous amounts of money.


Captain Morgan wrote:
We got some settlement rules in the game mastery guide.

Sadly the Settlement rules in the Game Mastery Guide isn't about kingdom building :/ - thanks for mentioning it though.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

At least one NPC in-setting uses Reincarnate to do this. That absolutely works, and given that it's a Ritual, requires no specific Class. It does require you to do it repeatedly, and being dead, and thus requires allies to perform the ritual, but it works. Getting back to your base Ancestry is a bit tricky, but Wish, Miracle, or Alter Reality probably work for that at GM discretion.

The Sun Orchid Elixir also solves this problem in-setting, though that requires rather ludicrous amounts of money.

The Sun Orchid Elixir brings one back to youth, but then they'll age again, meaning that in 50 or 60 years I'd have to drink another, and as you mentioned, each one costs a kingdom.

I thought about Reincarnate, but really doesn't sit well with the concept of an "forever young king", if he's not that young, also I'd wager Pharasma would object if the cause of death was natural causes due to aging.

Nitro~Nina wrote:

If you want some basis for that and don't mind asking the GM (which you'd have to do for Threefold Aspect anyway), the Blessed Background could also help. It's supposed to have more mechanical relevance, so the GM might still give you the at-will guidance to represent your advanced and slightly-divine experience, especially since living a long time doesn't really do much in a campaign. You'd have to determine why you got that boon and why Pharasma's chill with it, but there are tons of ways to finagle that in the lore so long as you stay in whatever deity's good graces.

Perhaps, to give the GM that plot-hook gleam in their eye, you could opt into an Anathema and Edict that you have to follow to maintain the long life? Could be fun! Maybe Grandmother Spider has freed you from the shackles of time, but in return you must never harm a spider? Perhaps Gorum has bound your soul to your blade, and you must maintain its perfection to retain your youth? Maybe even Pharasma herself sees you as a more useful agent on-the-ground, and you must constantly work to vanquish undead...

If you really wanted to jam some divine intervention up your character's nose, you could even channel that Charisma into the Oracle class. A fun Mystery could be Tempest; even the weather thinks it's uncool that you've lived this long... but, hey, you always have a dramatic wind a'ruffling your cape!

If we speak purely mechanically, however... Threefold Aspect can be foiled with a particularly perceptive Seek action, so I'm not sure it really does much for your innards. Even if it's better than skin-deep, aging is super complex and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that a third-level Bard spell is going to reverse it forever when that usually requires super-human mastery of one's body (Monk) or an arrangement with the forces of nature (Druid). Could definitely help you seem a lot younger than you are though!

Very hard to argue with the Threefold Aspect argument you made, so I agree. Regarding the other points, one would say a Wish or Miracle (if well formulated) could give such benefit if the GM allow and that would be fine, but in my broken head this "sounds" like houserules. I do appreciate the inputs, though! Thank you.

--------------------

Maybe I'm seeing this the wrong way? Maybe the new rules that are yet to come will allow different stats for different kingdom types (like using Wisdom instead of Charisma for a Theocracy or Intelligence for a Magocracy). The Druid of the Wild Order is the only one that can't "live in civilization" since it's anathema for him. So maybe a full Wisdom druid would-be-king would fit?
What you guys think?

Verdant Wheel

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I think that this is a really specific thing you're after, but I do think it's possible! As best I can tell, your best shot might indeed be Druid or Monk.

A high-level druid has some truly almighty power and the respect of any number of primal forces. Plus, being able to tell what people want (Wisdom) can often greatly aid in attempts to leverage one's Charisma. Plus... the Influence Nature feat could become creatively quite powerful if you are A: Legendary in Nature, which is but one level above Timeless Nature, and B: established in a single region with a lot of time on your hands, which being immortal helps with. This is a king who has shaped the wildlife of the region to subtly and unsubtly support his rule. The birds sing as he greets his people, wild hogs harry unmarked carriages... and nature riots whenever his daily rounds are disrupted. Hard to depose a king who keeps his beasts free and his enemies marked by-scent, after all. The Animal Druid makes sense here, as does a Leaf Druid with Green Tongue; they say that there are no secrets in The Green Kingdom, for any insect might be a bug, and any plant could be, well, a plant...
Plus, if you must have diplomatic talent... You're a Druid. And a King. Attend court with the local Dryad Queen or similar; gain powerful, witty, Fey allies whose personalities are more than a match for most mortal wisdom but whose tricks you understand and whose tastes you can afford.

The Monk, on the other hand, may be easier to justifiably make Charismatic in the first place. Wisdom makes sense, but it's not strictly required for all that much outside of spellcasting. Especially with Stumbling, Gorilla or Dragon Stance, Charisma can be very useful, and being a paragon of physical perfection helps leverage that over the flawed mortals once counted amongst your peers. Frankly, if you do not age, if you demonstrate such perfect health and unassailable form, it will not be hard to convince the people of your divinity. You do not age, and can easily point to other "god-kings" like Razmir or Walkena, the first hidden away behind a mask and the second seen only in bright, flattering sunlight, as examples of visibly lesser beings. By contrast, you stride tall and proud, rippling with power and responding to challenges first with calm, deceptive wisdom and then with rapid, disabling strikes that leave no room for doubt. Even so, they say that there was once an assassination attempt in the midst of a toast, but that you caught the venom-laden arrow, returned it to the instigator without pause, and then snatched your wine-glass out of the air where you had left it. The only downside, really, is that Irori himself might seek you out if you begin claiming physical perfection and thus divinity; he's sort of the god of "prove it, tough guy".

Anyway, both classes can easily be the stuff of courtly legend. It just requires careful, creative usage of their truly magnificent talents.


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Nitro~Nina wrote:

I think that this is a really specific thing you're after, but I do think it's possible! As best I can tell, your best shot might indeed be Druid or Monk.

A high-level druid has some truly almighty power and the respect of any number of primal forces. Plus, being able to tell what people want (Wisdom) can often greatly aid in attempts to leverage one's Charisma. Plus... the Influence Nature feat could become creatively quite powerful if you are A: Legendary in Nature, which is but one level above Timeless Nature, and B: established in a single region with a lot of time on your hands, which being immortal helps with. This is a king who has shaped the wildlife of the region to subtly and unsubtly support his rule. The birds sing as he greets his people, wild hogs harry unmarked carriages... and nature riots whenever his daily rounds are disrupted. Hard to depose a king who keeps his beasts free and his enemies marked by-scent, after all. The Animal Druid makes sense here, as does a Leaf Druid with Green Tongue; they say that there are no secrets in The Green Kingdom, for any insect might be a bug, and any plant could be, well, a plant...
Plus, if you must have diplomatic talent... You're a Druid. And a King. Attend court with the local Dryad Queen or similar; gain powerful, witty, Fey allies whose personalities are more than a match for most mortal wisdom but whose tricks you understand and whose tastes you can afford.

The Monk, on the other hand, may be easier to justifiably make Charismatic in the first place. Wisdom makes sense, but it's not strictly required for all that much outside of spellcasting. Especially with Stumbling, Gorilla or Dragon Stance, Charisma can be very useful, and being a paragon of physical perfection helps leverage that over the flawed mortals once counted amongst your peers. Frankly, if you do not age, if you demonstrate such perfect health and unassailable form, it will not be hard to convince the people of your...

Holy s**@, so well spoken! You're inspired and inspiring Nitro-Nina. Thanks! I'm strongly considering a Leaf Druid now.


nice to see i'm not the only who likes playing a immortal character


Or you can wing up epic level rules and multiclass to Monk or Druid after 20 (I prefer the former, as I have no idea whether the latter's anathema might interfere). Level 28 will let you nab one of the anti-aging feats!


Liches “live” forever, and after you’ve gained ultimate arcane power, it's no big thing to put an illusion on yourself to look however you want or need to look :)


ArchSage20 wrote:
nice to see i'm not the only who likes playing a immortal character

Don't lie, you and I both know this is just a simulacrum you created.


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ArchSage20 wrote:
nice to see i'm not the only who likes playing a immortal character

Basically every char I make in every game is to reach immortality or godhood. It speaks to me.

jdripley wrote:
Liches “live” forever, and after you’ve gained ultimate arcane power, it's no big thing to put an illusion on yourself to look however you want or need to look :)

Are there rules for lichdom? Like how to, powers you gain, stuff like that? If so, where?

Lucas Yew wrote:
Or you can wing up epic level rules and multiclass to Monk or Druid after 20 (I prefer the former, as I have no idea whether the latter's anathema might interfere). Level 28 will let you nab one of the anti-aging feats!

Are there rules for epic levels? Where are they?


Lich from the Bestiary:
http://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=282

In short, no, there are not rules for becoming a Lich, but there are rules for what happens to a creature when it becomes a Lich. Those rules seem to be mainly for a GM to create a Lich using another creature as a starting point, but I think they'd work fine for a PC undergoing the change as well.

The process for becoming a Lich isn't defined, and I don't really blame Paizo for it. You need to craft a phylactery to hold your soul, to begin with, that's no big deal, but then to become a lich you need to rip your soul out of your body and place it in the phylactery. How do you rip your soul out of your body? By committing an act of depravity and evil, that's how. Like, murder a whole bunch of people during the ritual.

So... not something most PCs will be doing.


Invictus Spartan wrote:
Are there rules for epic levels? Where are they?

So far none, in official text. But it's easy to assume that you still get general/skill feats and skill increases every odd level, and class feats (which include multiclassing and archetypes) every even level.

The spellcasters do benefit less in this case though, as spell slot gains are fixed by level as of now...


jdripley wrote:
Liches “live” forever, and after you’ve gained ultimate arcane power, it's no big thing to put an illusion on yourself to look however you want or need to look :)

Or use a certain ritual that makes you look alive again at least. And even without being undead it would make you young again^^


David knott 242 wrote:


Or, if you just want to seem forever young relative to humans, you could simply play an elf.

in the long term, that seems like a recipe for trouble. Immortal kings already have enough friction (since you can't just wait out their reign, and hope you can get one over on the next king), and this adds a racial element onto it.

This means your heirs will also be around and strong for a century, even if the king dropped dead tomorrow. Racial longevity exasperates the immortal king issue. And a 70 year old half elf heir is 'in the prime of his life', rather than 'pass over him in favor of his grandchild' material.

I would imagine this is why elves don't hold high positions in human societies. They are either shut out before they get there, or... they have accidents after a few decades.

Verdant Wheel

Invictus Spartan wrote:
Holy s~+&, so well spoken! You're inspired and inspiring Nitro-Nina. Thanks! I'm strongly considering a Leaf Druid now.

Aw, thank you! I do hope it helps. Working out how various classes would apply themselves to the "real world" of Golarion is something I find extremely fun.


Invictus Spartan wrote:
ArchSage20 wrote:
nice to see i'm not the only who likes playing a immortal character

Basically every char I make in every game is to reach immortality or godhood. It speaks to me.

jdripley wrote:
Liches “live” forever, and after you’ve gained ultimate arcane power, it's no big thing to put an illusion on yourself to look however you want or need to look :)

Are there rules for lichdom? Like how to, powers you gain, stuff like that? If so, where?

Lucas Yew wrote:
Or you can wing up epic level rules and multiclass to Monk or Druid after 20 (I prefer the former, as I have no idea whether the latter's anathema might interfere). Level 28 will let you nab one of the anti-aging feats!
Are there rules for epic levels? Where are they?

if you try to play as a lich forget about society and most tables cause everyone is allergic to evil and undead

maybe look for a table with the 2 classes thingy and have monk as one of the classes so you can get timeless body

to be honest thought of a mages's goal to be eventually ditching his body and making a new one potentially becoming like a living spell or a elemental of magic since he realizes he cant ever fully master magic with a human's short life-spam

sadly paizo seems to dislike the idea of immortal wizards as players in this edition for some reason although druids and monks are fine

Verdant Wheel

ArchSage20 wrote:
Invictus Spartan wrote:
ArchSage20 wrote:
nice to see i'm not the only who likes playing a immortal character

Basically every char I make in every game is to reach immortality or godhood. It speaks to me.

jdripley wrote:
Liches “live” forever, and after you’ve gained ultimate arcane power, it's no big thing to put an illusion on yourself to look however you want or need to look :)

Are there rules for lichdom? Like how to, powers you gain, stuff like that? If so, where?

Lucas Yew wrote:
Or you can wing up epic level rules and multiclass to Monk or Druid after 20 (I prefer the former, as I have no idea whether the latter's anathema might interfere). Level 28 will let you nab one of the anti-aging feats!
Are there rules for epic levels? Where are they?

if you try to play as a lich forget about society and most tables cause everyone is allergic to evil and undead

maybe look for a table with the 2 classes thingy and have monk as one of the classes so you can get timeless body

to be honest thought of a mages's goal to be eventually ditching his body and making a new one potentially becoming like a living spell or a elemental of magic since he realizes he cant ever fully master magic with a human's short life-spam

sadly paizo seems to dislike the idea of immortal wizards as players in this edition for some reason although druids and monks are fine

Just because it's not there yet doesn't mean it won't be. Druids and Monks always got some form of enhanced longevity as part of their base package, whereas only the absolute best of the best Wizards unlocked that particular secret. They still get Clone, in any case, albeit as a Ritual. Also need to not push their luck with Pharasma, admittedly, but I get the feeling a high-level wizard is enough of a threat to Tar-Baphon that she has incentive to keep you in the game.

Verdant Wheel

Also, I just checked on a hunch, and I think you absolutely can play a Lich, albeit a very specific kind of Lich (that isn't technically a Lich in Pathfinder but shh) and once again it requires Druid Nonsense. Also, your PC has to be Evil, which I assume isn't an issue given the above. You also need to get access to a Rare thing, so, y'know, get with the GM.

You can do this at Druid 14 or Druid 18. The first is much jankier, involving a very nice convergence of the Druid's Form Control, the Ritualist's Speedy Rituals, and the Dracolich Deadification Ritual (which is rather the crux of the whole thing). Basically, you can get the Dragon trait juuuust long enough to cast the ritual, but honestly it's not very convincing and I fully expect your GM to throw you out a window for suggesting it, no matter how much you've emphasised evil dragon rituals in your backstory.

18th is much nicer. No need to fuss around with archetypes, though definitely get some Bard if you can get access to Ritual Researcher. Just get Perfect Form Control and be a dragon as long as you like! Much more convincing. Walk a mile in their claws and so on. Flirt with some evil dragons in an evil dragon bar. Then, once the laws of narrative are suitably mollified, you can go and gather your horde into a nice scenic cave and take your time casting the ritual as you wax poetic about the story you've been building with the GM, the quest of the dragon-nerd and its necrotic culmination... Your dragon-obsessed, deeply Religious and attractively buff Druid has finally found their prize!

The prize is potentially maybe becoming a big gross undead dragon that eats souls. Or maybe a suckier version of that. Or maybe just death.

Success? Success!

---

Note: I do not condone this. But I think it's technically possible with a liberal reading of "you gain the Dragon trait" unless I've misunderstood everything.

---

EDIT: Wait. I'm super sleep deprived, but... but could a Witch's Faerie Dragon do this, in theory, if you could get the ritual?? That might actually be amazing. Would DEFINITELY eat you, but amazing. Lil Ravener friend. Utter nonsense.


Getting concepts to fit into the game is a fun game in and of itself.
Picking a character goal that's not accumulation of treasure or personal power makes for interesting game play.
The druid king reminds me of the Fisher King myths, very cool.

Living forever or staying forever young looking really aren't impactful in the normal course of a game.

The problems that an undying monarch brings up have been layed out above, and what a character looks like has no mechanical effect.

Maybe Immortal and Forever Young should be Ancestries or Backgrounds or both.
They could be even be general feats.


Something we have not discussed is that there is an ancestry that is already immortal by default- Leshies.

Their description notes that not only are they spirits, but they can also use the exact same vessel as long as it isn't destroyed. The only hard limitation on them is the fact that they don't want to (a common immortal problem).

The only issue with this is that leshies might require a certain flavor that might not mesh with what you were thinking. Particularly their small size might limit how well they could pull off a 'majestic' charisma.

I find they are easier to work with once I realized that they are basically Druid made 'robots', given the fact that they are handcrafted and lack the common issues of food or aging. Sure, they have a free willed spirit as the driving force, but free will and sentience is one of the common assumptions with playable 'robot' characters.

Another fun thing is that their names are more explicit concepts. I'm thinking of making a leshy champion of Ragathiel named "Burning Justice".


dont forget that if we're talking level 14s+ even with just a starting Cha 12, you can easily have raised this up to 18 by level 15.

That's plenty charismatic regardless of class.


wonder if the community can ask paizo to add a general feat for that maybe they should make a quiz for what people want and sell a book with those things

imagine

general feat - eternal youth - 15

you have feared age since your early childhood realizing the lifespam of a mortal is too short to accomplish your dreams and so you spent a impressive amount of your life looking for ways to counter it

your efforts have finally come to fruition, you no longer age normally magically or otherwise, if you body is already old you return to being young in physical appearance and you no longer die from old age

Liberty's Edge

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I'd peg it at 19th level to reflect the PF1 stuff that did it at 20th, but make sure to add some mechanical benefits to it as well as the immunity to age. What, I'd need to think about.

But I do think a 19th level General Feat to make one immune to aging is a good call.


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Leshies and gnomes are straight up immortal in lore, so depending on how you choose to define "king", they can work pretty well. A gnome who staved off the bleaching definitely has some cool story hooks as a king in the faerie courts, and likewise, a leshy who lived for a long enough time might have established their domain in the natural world as an actual king of the jungle or what have you.

Other than that... Since you're playing a homebrew game, have you tried asking you DM? Immortality, as mentioned above, is 100% a flavor thing, so it wouldn't necessarily be a hard sell to ask if you can just say you're immortal.


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Alchemic_Genius wrote:

Leshies and gnomes are straight up immortal in lore, so depending on how you choose to define "king", they can work pretty well. A gnome who staved off the bleaching definitely has some cool story hooks as a king in the faerie courts, and likewise, a leshy who lived for a long enough time might have established their domain in the natural world as an actual king of the jungle or what have you.

Other than that... Since you're playing a homebrew game, have you tried asking you DM? Immortality, as mentioned above, is 100% a flavor thing, so it wouldn't necessarily be a hard sell to ask if you can just say you're immortal.

I wouldn't just peg leshies to be stuck in a jungle, although I agree that their experience with nature would be a good hook to strt things off.

I mean, one day you advise a village on proper farm irrigation and forestry management to avoid landslides, and a few centuries later you might have helped that village grow into a massive metropolitan area with exceptional environmental management policies.

that is one of the fun things about a near immortal king- they might have literally built their domain from scratch.

Verdant Wheel

Alchemic_Genius wrote:
Leshies and gnomes are straight up immortal in lore, so depending on how you choose to define "king", they can work pretty well. A gnome who staved off the bleaching definitely has some cool story hooks as a king in the faerie courts, and likewise, a leshy who lived for a long enough time might have established their domain in the natural world as an actual king of the jungle or what have you.

Gnomes were my first thought when Leshies were mentioned above; I can't believe I'd completely forgot about them before! I've actually been raving to my brother about how cool PF Gnomes are, and some of my favourite concepts to explore in the setting are different takes on how they stave off the Bleaching. My poison-obsessed forensic technician, "Coil", for instance, is basically yer archetypal PF gnome complete with boundless curiosity and frequent hyperfixation... She just also has a veneer of formaldehyde, mercury and quiet confidence quite at odds with their usual portrayal. Who needs to travel when you get to meet cadavers from all over the Inner Sea?

I have a point to that aside; if you can find a well of inspiration that never runs dry (can y'all tell I'm a bio nerd) then you can definitely justify an immortal Gnome. Plus, they come with that Charisma you ordered! It could the ever-shifting, always-something-new nature of courtly intrigue that actually keeps them going, for instance; perhaps their rule is constantly on a knife-edge between "just interesting enough" and "too interesting to manage"...


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Secrets of Magic is out and my dreams of an immortality ritual are squandered.

The only thing in the entire book that makes you "young again" is the ritual Bathe in Blood, that requires you to be at max level 16, and gets harder to cast each time you do it.

Anyone found anything on the book that makes you eternally young that I might (hopefully) have missed?


Invictus Spartan wrote:

Secrets of Magic is out and my dreams of an immortality ritual are squandered.

The only thing in the entire book that makes you "young again" is the ritual Bathe in Blood, that requires you to be at max level 16, and gets harder to cast each time you do it.

Anyone found anything on the book that makes you eternally young that I might (hopefully) have missed?

Just a note, you can heighten Rituals, which should allow you to keep doing it as you go above level 16. It will still get harder every time though.

Core Rulebook pg 408 wrote:
You can heighten a ritual up to half your level rounded up, decided when the ritual is initiated


Invictus Spartan wrote:

Secrets of Magic is out and my dreams of an immortality ritual are squandered.

The only thing in the entire book that makes you "young again" is the ritual Bathe in Blood, that requires you to be at max level 16, and gets harder to cast each time you do it.

Anyone found anything on the book that makes you eternally young that I might (hopefully) have missed?

The Rare level 20 item Sun Orchid Elixir from the world guide has you covered:

Quote:

When you drink this elixir, you physically become as you were in whatever phase of your youth you desire. Your new body begins in peak health, regardless of what your actual condition was at that age. Any physical or mental imperfections— including scars, lost limbs, and curses, diseases, poisons of 20th level or lower— are removed, and you regain your full Hit Points. You immediately begin to age normally again, with your natural lifespan extended as if you had never aged past your new apparent age. You retain all your memories.

Unlike Crafting most items, brewing the sun orchid elixir takes 1 month’s time. While an individual vial of sun orchid elixir isn’t unique, the formula is unique, and it’s known only to Artokus Kirran of THUVIA.

Acording to the wiki, every year six vials are made to be sold each one on the nearby city states of Thuvia on an auction.


9th level Mindswap let’s you steal young bodies in perpetuity. Boost your physical traits, too, if you pick the right one.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Are you trying to make a PC or an NPC here? Immortality isn't generally relevant during most campaigns, so I'm curious.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

damn, I came to recommend Bathe in Blood, its really damn cool.


Making a Bard with eternal youth? That's easy. Get to 19th level and learn how to Alter Reality. Duh.


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Xenocrat wrote:
9th level Mindswap let’s you steal young bodies in perpetuity. Boost your physical traits, too, if you pick the right one.

YOU BEAUTIFUL LEGEND, THANK YOU. Orochimaru is the way to go!

Yes, I can change my mind to another being of my ancestry permanently!
I checked it out but didn't read the heightened version.
THANK YOU XENOCRAT.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:
damn, I came to recommend Bathe in Blood, its really damn cool.

It's wonderfully cool, except we can use it a limited amount of times, only sadly.

----------

I'm trying to make a PC, yes being "immortal" gives nothing on Pathfinder 2E, it is just for the fluff, but as I wrote above #fluffmatters.

---------------------------

Wish, Miracle and Alter Reality depends on GM fiat, so any success would "feel" like a houserule. My mind is broken.

--------------

I deeply appreciate all the advice and suggestions.
Excuse me while I make a body-stealing PC now.


Invictus Spartan wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
9th level Mindswap let’s you steal young bodies in perpetuity. Boost your physical traits, too, if you pick the right one.

YOU BEAUTIFUL LEGEND, THANK YOU. Orochimaru is the way to go!

Yes, I can change my mind to another being of my ancestry permanently!
I checked it out but didn't read the heightened version.
THANK YOU XENOCRAT.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:
damn, I came to recommend Bathe in Blood, its really damn cool.

It's wonderfully cool, except we can use it a limited amount of times, only sadly.

----------

I'm trying to make a PC, yes being "immortal" gives nothing on Pathfinder 2E, it is just for the fluff, but as I wrote above #fluffmatters.

---------------------------

Wish, Miracle and Alter Reality depends on GM fiat, so any success would "feel" like a houserule. My mind is broken.

--------------

I deeply appreciate all the advice and suggestions.
Excuse me while I make a body-stealing PC now.

Make them a tiefling that looks like this.


Invictus Spartan wrote:
Claxon wrote:

I think the problem is sustaining it, and as a GM I would still say you die when you reach the age limit for your race (although I don't think that information transferred editions because it's not typically relevant).

Not sure if that sort of thing is important or not to the OP but if the ritual drops you return to your true age, which could mean death or at least inconvenience if you've reached an incredibly old age.

Makes sense. My idea was to make a human-aasimar, so I'd die with 110 years old (70+2d20, if memory serves me from 1st edition) while looking like I'm in my mid 20s? On the other hand, doesn't "max age for race" happens due to the biology of that ancestry (for example, we have humans who are over 110 years old).

I'm still open to suggestions if more people have it!

It is strange that there's no equivalent to PF1e maximum age ranges in PF2e [unless it's in some other PF2e sourcebook?] but otherwise, you might try for some PF2e 3pp?

There is that Battlezoo Kickstarter for PF2e where you can play as a Dragon [not sure if the age range for them was changed for PF2e] or there's that Tome of Psionics for PF2e... if they've kept the Elans unchanged [Not a Dreamscarred Press product though...]

Neither options would be usable in most organized play situations though, if that's an important element for you.


Today is a good day to... halp wrote:
There is that Battlezoo Kickstarter for PF2e where you can play as a Dragon [not sure if the age range for them was changed for PF2e] or there's that Tome of Psionics for PF2e... if they've kept the Elans unchanged [Not a Dreamscarred Press product though...]

Gotta do me due diligence here... upon seeing the sampler pdf for Tome of Psionics, it seems that it takes much more inspiration from AD&D2e Psionics rather than 3.5/PF1e Psionics; apologies for the mislead from my prior posting then.


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The Tome of Psionics is broken.

I remember the writer posting for help with the homebrew for it back when PF2e was first coming out, and the feedback I was repeatedly giving was "that's not how the system works". I also remember them being painfully resistant to actually listening to feedback.

DCs scale with proficiency, not spell level. Don't use skill proficiency to directly enable casting ability. Don't have abilities to increase casting DCs. Don't give a bonus higher than +4. Default focus pool is one, hard maximum is three, and recharging is valued quite highly.

Based upon the PDF preview of the piece, the author clearly has learned little about the hard limits of the system. There are SO MANY basic design red flags that show up as I'm reading through that.


Also found another way: Unending Youth.
All you gotta do is accept to obey the command of an evil queen whenever she wants, 1 minute per day.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=762
It's on the Legends book.

But hey! You get young again and cease againg and may even lower your Doomed condition to 0 once per day.
Of course, you'd have to be really useful as a person for Queen Abrogail to be interested in making a contract with you, but still.

Still, I wish we had more options, instead of:
Be a lvl 14 monk;
Be a lvl 14 druid;
Change bodies with permanent Mind Swap ritual;
Make a contract with Abrogail for Unending Youth;
Be a stubborn (and machine-looking) android;
Be a plant/leshy;
Be a very hectic gnome with ADHD and refuse to ever get bored or you'll get sick/gray and die.

We do have rules for undeath now, and they're awesome. But they're a different flavor.


I don't think we're ever going to find many concrete rules for becoming immortal. Living forever doesn't actually impinge on play much, not without some other benefit like monks and druids get, and PF2E's published materials are more focused on mechanically important effects rather than narrative ones.

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