Eidolon Stats


Summoner Class


So, for the most part I think the way eidolon stats work is great. They should always be fine in combat with a beefy 16/16/16 line.

But they start with very low mental scores. This is mainly a concern for their ability to use skills that rely on them - two of the types start out at 12 in WIS, at least. But that only lets them reach a max of 18 ever at level 15 (as 19 is wasted).

My thought is basically to loosen up the initial eidolon stats slightly by allowing players to assign a small portion of them - give 1 or 2 ability boosts at level 1 and reduce the stats accordingly.

Part of my concern here is that the Beast eidolon starts at a mere 10 CHA. But it gets a dedicated Intimidate ability at level 7. Even if the summoner gets an immediate master in Intimidate there, it's still only going to have 12 CHA backing that. I think that's silly, and it should be able to at least pack 14, if not 16 (at a price).


The dragon summoner has the same issue when in synthesis.

Sczarni

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

This actually brings up a REALLY good concern that I just thought of.

If mental stats are so weak and there is no way to really improve them much, if you are hit with an AOE, what will happen? The statistical likelihood is that the weak mental stats will cause you to fail quite a bit. Like... a drastic increase in crit failures and you as the summoner have to take all that extra damage from AOEs? If you get hit with an AOE harm, the low will save on dragon/phantom will destroy you.

Then the summoner itself has low AC. So if the enemies just target the summoner, bam. The way a GM deals with a summoner is to melee the summoner and use will save spells on the eidolon. RIP.


Verzen wrote:

This actually brings up a REALLY good concern that I just thought of.

If mental stats are so weak and there is no way to really improve them much, if you are hit with an AOE, what will happen? The statistical likelihood is that the weak mental stats will cause you to fail quite a bit. Like... a drastic increase in crit failures and you as the summoner have to take all that extra damage from AOEs? If you get hit with an AOE harm, the low will save on dragon/phantom will destroy you.

Then the summoner itself has low AC. So if the enemies just target the summoner, bam. The way a GM deals with a summoner is to melee the summoner and use will save spells on the eidolon. RIP.

tbf, this is only likely to happen when the dm is using intelligent spell casters, and at that level, hopefully, you have some counter measures via feats and such.

last game i played, we were attacked by a bunch of yetis, i dont think we had to worry about wills aves :P


Dubious Scholar wrote:
Part of my concern here is that the Beast eidolon starts at a mere 10 CHA. But it gets a dedicated Intimidate ability at level 7. Even if the summoner gets an immediate master in Intimidate there, it's still only going to have 12 CHA backing that.

I think the bigger concern would be that Primal Roar gets a –4 circumstance penalty to the check because you’re not speaking a language with it.


Martialmasters wrote:
Verzen wrote:

This actually brings up a REALLY good concern that I just thought of.

If mental stats are so weak and there is no way to really improve them much, if you are hit with an AOE, what will happen? The statistical likelihood is that the weak mental stats will cause you to fail quite a bit. Like... a drastic increase in crit failures and you as the summoner have to take all that extra damage from AOEs? If you get hit with an AOE harm, the low will save on dragon/phantom will destroy you.

Then the summoner itself has low AC. So if the enemies just target the summoner, bam. The way a GM deals with a summoner is to melee the summoner and use will save spells on the eidolon. RIP.

tbf, this is only likely to happen when the dm is using intelligent spell casters, and at that level, hopefully, you have some counter measures via feats and such.

last game i played, we were attacked by a bunch of yetis, i dont think we had to worry about wills saves :P

Well, most enemies will probably focus eidolon even if they're dumb simply because the eidolon is closer/more fearsome/actively fighting. So it appears to me that the concern about bad will saves is real.


graystone wrote:
Dubious Scholar wrote:
Part of my concern here is that the Beast eidolon starts at a mere 10 CHA. But it gets a dedicated Intimidate ability at level 7. Even if the summoner gets an immediate master in Intimidate there, it's still only going to have 12 CHA backing that.
I think the bigger concern would be that Primal Roar gets a –4 circumstance penalty to the check because you’re not speaking a language with it.

Hmm. That's something that should probably be given a clause, yes. Language shouldn't matter when the giant beast goes RAWR.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Secrets of Magic Playtest / Summoner Class / Eidolon Stats All Messageboards