Does the Abyss have layers in Pathfinder?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I've never been sure, as some books talk about it having "rifts" (whatever that means), but at least one place is described as a layer (Kurnugia).


More or less yes - in the Gamemastery Guide, no scope trait is listed for it, so it is immeasurable by default, and its description sas it has "innumerable regions, each a unique iteration of chaos evil, each with its own terrible environment". Planar Adventures from 1e also mentions that each of its regions are basically a plane unto themselves.


Yqatuba wrote:
I've never been sure, as some books talk about it having "rifts" (whatever that means), but at least one place is described as a layer (Kurnugia).

Yes. Kurnugia is a layer of it.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Abyss

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It doesn't have "layers" as does the Abyss in D&D, but it does have specific realms and regions that pretty much do the same thing.

When you'd create a stylized map of the Abyss for D&D it looks like a stack of pancakes, with each pancake being it's own region. When you do one for Pathfinder, it looks like a 3D endless cave network with each cave being its own region.

We try to call these areas "Abyssal realms" and not "Abyssal layers" to keep from being D&D, but that's a multi-decade habit that's hard for us to shake, and even harder for our writers (and customers) to shake. :-P

The Abyss is also known as the "Outer Rifts," since how it interfaces with the rest of the Outer Planes makes it look like a network of canyons and chasms dropping away into the forever.


Isn't the difference just mapping style? Or are you implying the routes between the layers in D&D follow a straight path like an elevator that requires you to visit them sequentially?


In D&D's Abyss, you can use the Plane of Infinite Portals on the Abyss to go directly to the layer you want to go to (assuming you could find the portal in question before the countless demons who are also using this as a mass transit system didn't kill you while you were looking). I believe in 4e, you could step off the edge of the motes (floating rocks, some the size of worlds, that replaced layers) but that was basically suicide, and even demons who could fly wouldn't do it voluntarily.


In 4E was "walking the plank" a thing then?

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James Jacobs wrote:

It doesn't have "layers" as does the Abyss in D&D, but it does have specific realms and regions that pretty much do the same thing.

When you'd create a stylized map of the Abyss for D&D it looks like a stack of pancakes, with each pancake being it's own region. When you do one for Pathfinder, it looks like a 3D endless cave network with each cave being its own region.

We try to call these areas "Abyssal realms" and not "Abyssal layers" to keep from being D&D, but that's a multi-decade habit that's hard for us to shake, and even harder for our writers (and customers) to shake. :-P

The Abyss is also known as the "Outer Rifts," since how it interfaces with the rest of the Outer Planes makes it look like a network of canyons and chasms dropping away into the forever.

Never heard of word about abyssal layers in pathfinder or as paizo customer so I think you actually did good job there :p

Just like how I haven't heard paizo or pathfinder products calling hell "Nine Hells"


How big is each realm? I assume they are finite but probably depend on how powerful the ruling demon lord is (ranging from continent size to star size, I would guess.)

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Yqatuba wrote:
How big is each realm? I assume they are finite but probably depend on how powerful the ruling demon lord is (ranging from continent size to star size, I would guess.)

They vary wildly in size. Some might be the size of a palace. Some might be the size of a nation. Some might be the size of a planet. Some might be the size of a galaxy. Some would be smaller or larger than any of these options. They're as big as they need to be for the story we (or you) want to set there.

All of them are finite in size, as is the Great Beyond itself, but the scale of that finite size is so vast that the scale is incomprehensible to mortal minds.


Moppy wrote:
In 4E was "walking the plank" a thing then?

I can't speak for anyone else, but the first time my party discovered "exploding minions" (fairly common in the Astral Sea, Elemental Chaos, and the Abyss), using push powers to kick things off the rock became a common tactic.

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