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Hello, folks. I've written a guide to the 2e rogue. YOU CAN FIND IT HERE
Comments welcome.
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Incidentally, you can find my guide to the 2e wizard HERE
And my guide to the 2e fighter HERE.
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I would rate dubious knowledge a bit higher. It gives you a wrong answer, but a right one as well. You can attempt to discern between them yourself, and either way, it could end up being a useful tip on troublesome abilities. It is usually better than getting 'nothing'.
Expect heavy table variation depending on how well your GM can lie. For many, they might not be able to think of a good 'wrong' answer on the spot. You will probably see them try to give simple and obvious 'wrong' answers, like going on about the ice powers of an obvious red dragon.
A savy GM might give well considered red herrings that send you on a wild goose chase or make you look out for some deadly, nonexistant ability (ie- "that mudcrab has the ability to explode when they die", causing the party to try to find a way to disable it without attacking the creature that is actually harmles). While this is a risk, it is one that the GM probably has to prepare before hand, so they may have thought of way to keep things on the rails.
Edit- Talisman Dabbler is slight more workable than it appears. It comes with a 'infused reagent' style mechanic, allowing a few of them to use a day.
it is still not very good for rogues, admittedly. It is actually better for fighters, since there are talismans that give a one time use of a few fighter feats (notably intimidating strike), but upgrade when you already have that feat (so you cause fear 2/crit 3). ... ok, this is the sole reason I've found to use this archetype. And I cannot really justify anything other than the 2 infused reagent feats, even as a 'get out of this archetype now' feat.
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I feel like, as far as rogues are concerned, the killer app when it comes to Talismans is the Mesmerizing Opal. It turns successes on Feint into critical successes for no action cost. Granted, that means that about half of the time it won't have any effect (it doesn't do anything on a failure or on a critical success), but for Scoundrels it very strongly enables one of the major selling points of being a Scoundrel in the first place: the possibility to keep flat-footed running for an entire turn, not only letting everybody else get in on the flat-footed action, but saving you from having to set up flat-footed again on your next turn. (Plus it makes Distracting Feint way better.) Getting that a few times a day for the cost of a dedication feat seems like at least a reasonable path for a rogue to consider, even if we now live in a world where the opportunity cost of any dedication feat is really high. I definitely wouldn't say that it's something that every Scoundrel needs to knock down the door to prioritize, but it seems like enough of a benefit to warrant more than total dismissal. (Or, if there's some reason it warrants total dismissal in spite of the synergy between Scoundrel and Mesmerizing Opal, I feel like that's worth noting specifically.)
The class does go stale after a bit (once Opals become super cheap), but it still seems worth considering, even if you eventually retrain. (I guess you can start making Murderer's Knots instead.)
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I can't see taking an archetype in order to better use an item that is gone in a single round.
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I can't see taking an archetype in order to better use an item that is gone in a single round.
Think of it as a feat that grants you 2/use day (4 with a second feat) of a few choice options. Of course, it is only as good the item and build combo you use it with.
I focused on the the fear gem, since it gives a fighter the kind of frightened debuffs that would normally take a fear spell (fear 3 on a crit, on a crit heavy class?). It is enough to make a particular target (BBEG?) pretty crippled for mmost of the fight, and you could build into it (fearsome brute could add anywhere from 6-9 damage).
I will certainly agree that it is a fairly high cost of admission, and you should only go for it if you feel "hey, I could really use that effect a few times a day" (unspoken- "and I don't have any other dedication that would be better...")
Thanks for this. I needed reminding about the Daikyu being a longbow without the volley trait.
A Rogue get into the Marshal archetype via the Fighter multiclass. It is much easier to do it by taking general feat weapon proficiency twice. This saves on class feats and may be considered a cheaper option.
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Hello, folks. I've written a guide to the 2e rogue. YOU CAN FIND IT HERE
Thanks for that. I like your guides, the way you explain choices. But they are definitely not for a quick read....
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I can't see taking an archetype in order to better use an item that is gone in a single round.
The major selling point of the archetype is that it transforms talismans from "expensive consumable" to "free several-times-daily ability." You're not taking the archetype in order to make better use of talismans that you're paying full price for. The fact that the mechanics for your free daily-uses ability piggybacks on the mechanics for consumables that aren't worth it until you're much higher level than the level listed for the consumables isn't really irrelevant. Loads of excellent daily-uses abilities are "gone in a single round."
Talisman Dabbler isn't a must-take, but it's head and shoulders better than the majority of the archetypes ranked higher than it. It significantly improves things scoundrels want to be doing anyway.
Really good guide!
I think cavalier rogue is very good with ruffian
1- Gang up = perma flat-footed (so sneak attack)
2- Great speed + good action economy (when mature animal companion u can even move or strike w/o expending an action)
3- Opportune Backstab recction for free attack everytime your mount hits.
I can't see taking an archetype in order to better use an item that is gone in a single round.Think of it as a feat that grants you 2/use day (4 with a second feat) of a few choice options. Of course, it is only as good the item and build combo you use it with.
I focused on the the fear gem, since it gives a fighter the kind of frightened debuffs that would normally take a fear spell (fear 3 on a crit, on a crit heavy class?). It is enough to make a particular target (BBEG?) pretty crippled for mmost of the fight, and you could build into it (fearsome brute could add anywhere from 6-9 damage).
I will certainly agree that it is a fairly high cost of admission, and you should only go for it if you feel "hey, I could really use that effect a few times a day" (unspoken- "and I don't have any other dedication that would be better...")
I can't see taking an archetype in order to better use an item that is gone in a single round.The major selling point of the archetype is that it transforms talismans from "expensive consumable" to "free several-times-daily ability." You're not taking the archetype in order to make better use of talismans that you're paying full price for. The fact that the mechanics for your free daily-uses ability piggybacks on the mechanics for consumables that aren't worth it until you're much higher level than the level listed for the consumables isn't really irrelevant. Loads of excellent daily-uses abilities are "gone in a single round."
Talisman Dabbler isn't a must-take, but it's head and shoulders better than the majority of the archetypes ranked higher than it. It significantly improves things scoundrels want to be doing anyway.
Well, that's why I we have this discussion board. Thanks for the input and I'll give it a think!
Thanks for this. I needed reminding about the Daikyu being a longbow without the volley trait.
A Rogue get into the Marshal archetype via the Fighter multiclass. It is much easier to do it by taking general feat weapon proficiency twice. This saves on class feats and may be considered a cheaper option.
<slaps forehead> Yeah. duh. Just like I did with the Red Mantis. I must be gettin' old. You have no idea how many times I wrote that a weapon couldn't be used to sneak attack, only to realize much later that it was a bow, or a simple weapon a ruffian could use or whatever.
I'll fix it!
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Really good guide!
I think cavalier rogue is very good with ruffian
1- Gang up = perma flat-footed (so sneak attack)
2- Great speed + good action economy (when mature animal companion u can even move or strike w/o expending an action)
3- Opportune Backstab recction for free attack everytime your mount hits.
Okay, but how do you see a rogue/cavalier actually being used in play? The horse kinda puts a crimp on the sneaky, and they're difficult to maneuver when you're climbing a wall.
Hello, folks. I've written a guide to the 2e rogue. YOU CAN FIND IT HERE
Thanks for that. I like your guides, the way you explain choices. But they are definitely not for a quick read....
Not a quick write, either! But you've got RPGRobot who does an excellent quick guide.
So on that subject, I could cut these suckers by at least a third if I didn't give full characters. Are those useful to people? Or would a brief list of the feats at the heart of the character be just as good or better?
A few notes on first glance:
Under lizard lfolk you state that claws are simple weapons. They are not. When the claws are agile or finesse, any rogue can sneak attack with them, but the ruffian ability to sneak attack with simple weapons does not apply there. I believe there are a few other incorrect references to unamed attacks as simple weapons, or any type of weapons (see clawed catfolk). Because of the common confusion with trying to use weapon specific abilities for unarmed attacks that occur for a lot of new players, I think it's worth an attempt to be very consistent about this.
On a related note, you might include a note about not working with unarmed attacks under the Thief racket, similar to the one you already have under Monk Archetype.
Also, Iruxi Unarmed Experrise should be as red as red gets. With the 1st CRB errata, the feat actually has no effect at all.
I'm very confused about why you have a blue rating on Assured Knowledge. An assurance value on a roll that will often be level scaled isn't going to do a lot of good unless you went to get a little nuts and use it with Dubious Knowledge or Gossip Lore, so that the constant failures aren't all bad.
Not sure why Martial Artist is green for thief.
Complaints about the cost of talismans as a description of the archetype that gives free daily talismans is odd.
A few notes on first glance:
Under lizard lfolk you state that claws are simple weapons. They are not. When the claws are agile or finesse, any rogue can sneak attack with them, but the ruffian ability to sneak attack with simple weapons does not apply there. I believe there are a few other incorrect references to unamed attacks as simple weapons, or any type of weapons (see clawed catfolk). Because of the common confusion with trying to use weapon specific abilities for unarmed attacks that occur for a lot of new players, I think it's worth an attempt to be very consistent about this.
Can you direct me to the rule you're citing? I recall reading the exact opposite interpretation, but now I can't find -that- either.
On a related note, you might include a note about not working with unarmed attacks under the Thief racket, similar to the one you already have under Monk Archetype.
Good idea. Done.
Also, Iruxi Unarmed Experrise should be as red as red gets. With the 1st CRB errata, the feat actually has no effect at all.
Why? Please 'splain.
I'm very confused about why you have a blue rating on Assured Knowledge. An assurance value on a roll that will often be level scaled isn't going to do a lot of good unless you went to get a little nuts and use it with Dubious Knowledge or Gossip Lore, so that the constant failures aren't all bad.
Eh. It's not a rogue thing so I may have given it a cursory glance rather than the more in-depth consideration that I try to give every in-class feature. Still, not every roll is at even level and quite often you have to make a recall knowledge on a skill you haven't maxed out. Then, Assurance is useful. Still, I see the point that this is the Loremaster archetype and the loremaster should have those maxed out.
Not sure why Martial Artist is green for thief.
Because I forgot my own admonition that you can't use Dex to Damage on unarmed strikes.
Complaints about the cost of talismans as a description of the archetype that gives free daily talismans is odd.
Sure. There do seem to be quite a few talisman defenders here. As I said above, I'll take another look.
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CRB page 278: "However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so."
Regarding Iruxi unarmed expertise, the feat reads "Your unarmed attacks blend tradition and training. Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in certain weapons, you also gain that proficiency in the claw and unarmed attacks you gained from lizardfolk ancestry feats."
However, from the 1st CRB errata: "For any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks." As a result, you're getting your full proficiency with unarmed anyway, and the feat does nothing.
So on that subject, I could cut these suckers by at least a third if I didn't give full characters. Are those useful to people? Or would a brief list of the feats at the heart of the character be just as good or better?
As your asking: I would concentrate on a few builds that capture your imagination. Builds that actually stand out. With the APG, options are limitless, and going for all these possible builds compares to not seeing the forest through the trees. And including all ancestry feats etc is not really needed, show some very synergistic stuff and be done with it. you gotta leave something for players to do for themselves....
There are already some nice repositories of characters out there. Ravindork, GentlemanDM, where people can find ideas for complete builds, if needed.
i like rogues so i am reading this.
1- how does losing at most 3 damage from a ranged attack mean you should go with an attack cantrip on a thief wich will be behind by -3 at least and not able to get any +hit runes as well as take 2 actions and have less range? I disagree with this, just use a ranged weapon.
2-nimble dodge is good but i would retrain out of it if you want opportune backstab
3- unless their is some rule im unaware, opportune backstab IS subject to MAP, if you read opportune backstab it makes no mention of being exempt from MAP, if you read attack of opportunity, it specifically mentioned not being affected by MAP.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 187 1.1
Trigger A creature within your melee reach is hit by a melee attack from one of your allies.
When your enemy is hit by your ally, you capitalize upon the distraction. Make a Strike against the triggering creature.
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 91, Core Rulebook pg. 90 1.1
Trigger A creature within your reach uses a manipulate action or a move action, makes a ranged attack, or leaves a square during a move action it’s using.
You lash out at a foe that leaves an opening. Make a melee Strike against the triggering creature. If your attack is a critical hit and the trigger was a manipulate action, you disrupt that action. This Strike doesn’t count toward your multiple attack penalty, and your multiple attack penalty doesn’t apply to this Strike.
thats what stuck out to me from skimming.
overall seems a solid guide!
Opportune Backstabbing is not specially exempt from MAP...
But it's usually not triggered during your own turn. And reactions that take place outside of your turn don't have MAP. Readied attacks are the exception to that rule.
AoO not having MAP matters in cases like an enemy trying to move away as part of a reaction during your turn.
Opportune Backstabbing is not specially exempt from MAP...
But it's usually not triggered during your own turn. And reactions that take place outside of your turn don't have MAP. Readied attacks are the exception to that rule.
AoO not having MAP matters in cases like an enemy trying to move away as part of a reaction during your turn.
thank you for the clarification, though ithink its worth it to explain that to some players in the guide for opportune backstab, just for when those niche situations arise.
Okay, but how do you see a rogue/cavalier actually being used in play? The horse kinda puts a crimp on the sneaky, and they're difficult to maneuver when you're climbing a wall.Really good guide!
I think cavalier rogue is very good with ruffian
1- Gang up = perma flat-footed (so sneak attack)
2- Great speed + good action economy (when mature animal companion u can even move or strike w/o expending an action)
3- Opportune Backstab recction for free attack everytime your mount hits.
In my case I created a Goblin riding a wolf.
CRB page 278: "However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so."
I feel like there was an update that said something different, but if I can't locate it soon, I'll amend what I said. Thanks for pointing it out.
BTW, folks, Hammerjack is one of those people who really know the rules well. I just wing it half the time!
Regarding Iruxi unarmed expertise, the feat reads "Your unarmed attacks blend tradition and training. Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in certain weapons, you also gain that proficiency in the claw and unarmed attacks you gained from lizardfolk ancestry feats."
However, from the 1st CRB errata: "For any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks." As a result, you're getting your full proficiency with unarmed anyway, and the feat does nothing.
Okay, so now I'm confused. If Claws -aren't- unarmed attacks, and the second paragraph refers only to unarmed attacks, doesn't that mean it doesn't apply to claws? in which case, the first paragraph -does- buy you something, doesn't it? You gain proficiency in claws as you level up. No?
So on that subject, I could cut these suckers by at least a third if I didn't give full characters. Are those useful to people? Or would a brief list of the feats at the heart of the character be just as good or better?As your asking: I would concentrate on a few builds that capture your imagination. Builds that actually stand out. With the APG, options are limitless, and going for all these possible builds compares to not seeing the forest through the trees. And including all ancestry feats etc is not really needed, show some very synergistic stuff and be done with it. you gotta leave something for players to do for themselves....
There are already some nice repositories of characters out there. Ravindork, GentlemanDM, where people can find ideas for complete builds, if needed.
I'd be happy to have more people comment on this.
i like rogues so i am reading this.
1- how does losing at most 3 damage from a ranged attack mean you should go with an attack cantrip on a thief wich will be behind by -3 at least and not able to get any +hit runes as well as take 2 actions and have less range? I disagree with this, just use a ranged weapon.
What are you referring to?
2-nimble dodge is good but i would retrain out of it if you want opportune backstab
Why? Because it's a reaction? I'm okay with my character having a choice of reactions.
overall seems a solid guide!
Thanks!
thank you for the clarification, though ithink its worth it to explain that to some players in the guide for opportune backstab, just for when those niche situations arise.
What niche situation would that be? Are reactions ever triggered during your own turn?
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A very good guide so far. It looks like you did a lot of work. One thing I would point out is that concealed (the condition) does not make a creature flat-footed to you.
Edit: Also with Analyze Weakness, my reading is that you only need to identify the creature once ever, so it is better than how I think you are reading it.
Edit 2: Why is Spring from Shadows rated higher than Tactical Entry? To start a battle, tactical entry would be really useful to already be next to an opponent you can use a flourish attack against. Of course, Tactical Entry is once per fight at most, but I think if chosen at level 12, it is better than Spring from Shadows.
CRB page 278: "However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so."I feel like there was an update that said something different, but if I can't locate it soon, I'll amend what I said. Thanks for pointing it out.
BTW, folks, Hammerjack is one of those people who really know the rules well. I just wing it half the time!
Okay, so now I'm confused. If Claws -aren't- unarmed attacks, and the second paragraph refers only to unarmed attacks, doesn't that mean it doesn't apply to claws? in which case, the first paragraph -does- buy you something, doesn't it? You gain proficiency in claws as you level up. No?Regarding Iruxi unarmed expertise, the feat reads "Your unarmed attacks blend tradition and training. Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in certain weapons, you also gain that proficiency in the claw and unarmed attacks you gained from lizardfolk ancestry feats."
However, from the 1st CRB errata: "For any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks." As a result, you're getting your full proficiency with unarmed anyway, and the feat does nothing.
Claws are unarmed attacks. The reason that the feat doesn't buy you anything is that you already gain proficiency in unarmed attacks, including claws as you level up. So the feat gives you something that you already have
I'm not sure where the "if claws aren't unarmed attacks" came from?
As for niche situations where Opportune Backstabbing would have MAP, I think you would need something like the following:
1. It is your turn and you have used an attack
2. An ally uses a melee attack out of turn as a reaction (they redid an action, an enemy reaction provoked AoO, your ally also has Opportune Backstab, etc)
3. You use Opportune Backstab during your own turn, triggered by your ally's out of turn attack, so it does suffer from MAP
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Also, the fury barbarian does not get an instinct ability, so it does not increase damage. I think it would be rated red.
And with the Elven Thief Build, I think the 4th level Unbalancing Blow and the 5th Level Elven Weapon Elegance are filling the same roles, so one could be changed.
Aside: Some people have mentioned that they are color blind and cannot see the text. Would it be possible to add some other distinguishing marks for them to use the guide as well?
A very good guide so far. It looks like you did a lot of work. One thing I would point out is that concealed (the condition) does not make a creature flat-footed to you.
Hmmm... I wonder why I thought otherwise. Oh, well. As I've said before, the greatest way to learn the game is to write a thorough guide. Everyone points out what you got wrong and you soon learn a lot more!
Thanks.
Edit: Also with Analyze Weakness, my reading is that you only need to identify the creature once ever, so it is better than how I think you are reading it.
It can't be the case that something is always flat-footed after the Mastermind identifies it just once. Not only is that a superpower, but it's not overly logical.
"How is he getting the drop on you every time?"
"He looked at me once, twenty years ago for six seconds."
However, I would like to see some official answers one way or another.
Edit 2: Why is Spring from Shadows rated higher than Tactical Entry? To start a battle, tactical entry would be really useful to already be next to an opponent you can use a flourish attack against. Of course, Tactical Entry is once per fight at most, but I think if chosen at level 12, it is better than Spring from Shadows.
Tactical Entry gets you a free Stride only if you move before all enemies -and- rolled Stealth for Initiative.
Spring from the Shadows does more or less the same thing, but doesn't care whether you're first or not and doesn't care what skill you used for Initiative.. I feel that makes it considerably more useful because the situations in which you can use it will be much more common.
I'm not sure where the "if claws aren't unarmed attacks" came from?
I misunderstood you earlier when you said Claws aren't simple weapons. I thought you meant they weren't weapons. Never mind. I get it now.
As for niche situations where Opportune Backstabbing would have MAP, I think you would need something like the following:
1. It is your turn and you have used an attack
2. An ally uses a melee attack out of turn as a reaction (they redid an action, an...
Duly noted. :-)
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Edit: Also with Analyze Weakness, my reading is that you only need to identify the creature once ever, so it is better than how I think you are reading it.It can't be the case that something is always flat-footed after the Mastermind identifies it just once. Not only is that a superpower, but it's not overly logical.
"How is he getting the drop on you every time?"
"He looked at me once, twenty years ago for six seconds."
However, I would like to see some official answers one way or another.
Oh, no, I also believe it making the enemy flat-footed would be overpowered as well. The Mastermind ability specifically gives a time period of until the start of the next round on a success or one minute on a critical success (which seems really good). However, I was only talking about the 6th level feat Analyze Weakness, which only requires that the creature has been identified by the rogue with a recall knowledge action. Analyze Weakness would not give flat-footed whatsoever; however, it still makes for a great third action (after spending one to recall).
I did not read Tactical Entry that way. It says:Edit 2: Why is Spring from Shadows rated higher than Tactical Entry? To start a battle, tactical entry would be really useful to already be next to an opponent you can use a flourish attack against. Of course, Tactical Entry is once per fight at most, but I think if chosen at level 12, it is better than Spring from Shadows.Tactical Entry gets you a free Stride only if you move before all enemies -and- rolled Stealth for Initiative.
Spring from the Shadows does more or less the same thing, but doesn't care whether you're first or not and doesn't care what skill you used for Initiative.. I feel that makes it considerably more useful because the situations in which you can use it will be much more common.
You rolled Stealth for initiative in this encounter, and neither you nor any enemies have acted yet in this encounter.
To me, that means anytime you use stealth for initiative but before anyone has acted, and since tactical entry is a free action, it can be used whenever a trigger is specified, meaning that no matter when the rogue's initiative is, it can take a stride.
As for Spring from the Shadows, I think it is more limiting as it requires the rogue to be hidden or undetected by the creature it strides up to (before using the feat).
Based on these readings, I think Tactical Entry should be Blue or at least Green, while I would have Spring from the Shadows as a Green, bordering yellow, as a rogue should be using stealth judiciously, and it pairs well with Sneak Savant.
Also, the fury barbarian does not get an instinct ability, so it does not increase damage. I think it would be rated red.
You're right. I was looking at their Specialization ability.
And with the Elven Thief Build, I think the 4th level Unbalancing Blow and the 5th Level Elven Weapon Elegance are filling the same roles, so one could be changed.
Yup. You're right. The feat so nice I took it twice!
I haven't seen anyone say that. It would be possible, yes, but it's a fair bit of work. I'd just as soon get on to other work unless there is a particularized need. If someone writes and says the can't make it out, I'll spend the time and do it for them, but not on the off chance someone may need it.
Can I please request that when people comment on a particular part of the guide, they refer to it by paragraph number? I spent a lot of time putting them in there for just that reason! It makes it easier to know what people are referring to.
However, I was only talking about the 6th level feat Analyze Weakness, which only requires that the creature has been identified by the rogue with a recall knowledge action. Analyze Weakness would not give flat-footed whatsoever; however, it still makes for a great third action (after spending one to recall).
Totally agreed. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I've cleaned up the language.
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I did not read Tactical Entry that way. It says:
APG pg. 136 wrote:You rolled Stealth for initiative in this encounter, and neither you nor any enemies have acted yet in this encounter.
To me, that means anytime you use stealth for initiative but before anyone has acted, and since tactical entry is a free action, it can be used whenever a trigger is specified, meaning that no matter when the rogue's initiative is, it can take a stride.
As for Spring from the Shadows, I think it is more limiting as it requires the rogue to be hidden or undetected by the creature it strides up to (before using the feat).
Based on these readings, I think Tactical Entry should be Blue or at least Green, while I would have Spring from the Shadows as a Green, bordering yellow, as a rogue should be using stealth judiciously, and it pairs well with Sneak Savant.
I'd agree with your rating suggestion if I agreed with your interpretation of the feat. I think the wording "and neither you nor any enemies have acted yet in this encounter" is very clear. You must act before any enemy to use this feat.
Thanks for all the insights, folks! I'm very grateful for your time and experience.
It's funny. I've been playing RPGs for 43 years now and I've been playing this particular game since it was just a Beta PDF all those years ago. I run four Pathfinder campaigns and have run half a dozen more. And yet I still learn an immense amount about the fine details of the game every time I write one of these guides. Half from the research and half from the readers saying "nope, you got that wrong!"
In the words of Merlin from "Excalibur": "There's always something cleverer than yourself."
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Tactical Entry and Spring from the Shadows.I'd agree with your rating suggestion if I agreed with your interpretation of the feat. I think the wording "and neither you nor any enemies have acted yet in this encounter" is very clear. You must act before any enemy to use this feat.
I agree that my interpretation was wrong.
free action An action you use without spending one of your actions. Free actions with triggers can be used at any time, but they don't use up your reaction per round.
Since Tactical Entry does not have a trigger, it does seem to require the rogue to be the absolute fastest in initiative.
However, I was only talking about the 6th level feat Analyze Weakness, which only requires that the creature has been identified by the rogue with a recall knowledge action. Analyze Weakness would not give flat-footed whatsoever; however, it still makes for a great third action (after spending one to recall).Totally agreed. I don't -think- I said otherwise. Let me know how you think my language could have been clearer.
You only ever have to identify it once, but the you have to spend an action on Analyze Weakness each round, because it's only for "The next time you deal sneak attack damage to the chosen creature with a Strike before the end of your turn".
Then I think there was a typo with Analyze Weakness in the guide:
Deal additional damage when you sneak attack after successfully identifying a creature through Recall Knowledge. For the ratings above, I have assumed that you can continue to use Recall Knowledge each round.
I believe that you may have meant "Analyze Weakness" for the bolded Recall Knowledge.
One of us ninja'ed the other. I edited my response to Analyze Weakness above just now and also reworded that part of the guide. Thanks!
I could see reveal machinations getting awkward. Technically, there isn't anything that stop you from doing every single fight.
It can be funny, but it loses all dramatic effect after a couple of encounters with random guards or bandits.
Reveal Machinations is a feat that seriously breaks verisimilitude and is, as lemeres says, open to abuse. And not just abuse, but runs the serious risk of turning your campaign into a slapstick comedy. If that's what you want, go for it. It's very powerful.
That feat will never see the light of day in any campaign I'm running!
EDIT: However, I'll say something like that in the next revision and point out that the actual feat is quite powerful.
It is a Rare feat (possibly worth noting). No reason anyone should assume that it''s available in a game where it wouldn't fit/would ruin the mood.
If it is available, it is both powerful and hilarious if you chew the scenery for it.
In 7.1.6, Human Heritages:
Versatile Heritage - Gain a free General feat. Natural Ambition is the obvious choice.
Natural Ambition is a human ancestry feat.
Overall though, really nice guide! 60 builds is bonkers and greatly appreciated!
I've uploaded Version 1.1 to the SAME URL. It incorporates many of the suggestions I've received here. Thank you for your assistance!
In 7.1.6, Human Heritages:
Versatile Heritage - Gain a free General feat. Natural Ambition is the obvious choice.Natural Ambition is a human ancestry feat.
I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue...
Overall though, really nice guide! 60 builds is bonkers and greatly appreciated!
Please weigh in on whether you like the full build or would prefer just a list of important feats at each level.
You begin as an Expert in Perception and it only gets better. No other class does this as well.
This isn't right - both Rangers and Investigators start Expert and go to Legendary as well.
You begin as an Expert in Perception and it only gets better. No other class does this as well.This isn't right - both Rangers and Investigators start Expert and go to Legendary as well.
Well, Rogues get Perception to Legendary two levels earlier than do rangers, so I stand by the statement there. And Investigators weren't a thing when I wrote that. I'll amend it now.