isnt wild rager the best dip ever?


Advice


Wild Fighting (Ex): At 2nd level, even when not raging, wild ragers often fight with reckless, savage abandon. A wild rager using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at her highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of her next turn, however, she takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and –4 penalty to AC. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

free attack for -2 even wehn not raging.... its even great for cleric to dip no?


Depends on how you build the rager. Crit based barbarian would be fine better suiting this class feature. If you are focused on critical, you won't worry about the -2 to hit as much, as long as you have ways to improve your confirm crit. Otherwise, the penalties are less appealing to take for the one extra attack.

Silver Crusade

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Uncontrolled Rage is still going to make such characters unwelcome in a lot of groups and campaigns.


Uncontrolled Rage is free rage rounds, and do note it scales with Wild rager levels so the for example clerics can almost always make it after a few levels.


Getting an extra attack is pretty good, and Uncontrolled rage isn't too much of an issue, if you only dip 2 levels, and since it is optional, you can simply choose not to at lower levels.

I am a bit concerned with the penalties however. Especially the -4 to AC (or -6 if you choose to rage).
For a fighter that doesn't have DR (and huge hp) to tank with, lowering your AC too much could be fatal in the long run.

For a non-fighter (especially cleric, druid or oracle) I am not sure the extra attack as a trade off for other class abilities is something I'd be willing to do.


I wouldn't ever consider it for a full caster. But for a ranged character, I could see how it might be tempting to find room for those two levels. Especially for a Cha-dumping ranged character.

edit: this might be an interesting dip for a TWF, Quick Draw based throwing axe dwarf fighter. Rapid Shot, TWF, and the Barbarian dip should all stack for extra attacks. Probably won't actually be able to hit anything with all the penalties, but still fun to consider.


Most builds would benefit more from an Urban Barbarian dip.

Or an Alchemist dip.

Or both :-)


I'd still like to know if uncontrolled rage triggers on downing someone with non-lethal damage.


It's basically rapidshot, that can apply to melee, but it comes with an additional -4 to AC and it stacks with rapidshot.
It's a good 2 level dip for some martials (especially fighters), best to be done at mid+ levels (where AC pretty much sinks for THF builds).
For a cleric? i don't know, i am not sure that it's worth the loss of entire spell level and two caster levels... and on top of that you are trying to work with a character who has 3/4 BAB (but has buffs), which means that this -2 to attack rolls is going to hurt.

Grand Lodge

The Will Save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian's level + the barbarian's Constitution modifier) to not be Confused is troublesome.


It's charisma, not constitution. So for a two level dip, the DC could be under ten. Given the limited number of rounds of rage a two level dip gets you, the risk is minimal since you'd have to use rage in emergency situations only.


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They nerfed it. It used to be 10 + Barb level + Cha mod, so it was useful for low cha dippers and horribad for true barbarians.

Now it is 10 + 1/2 barb level + Con mod and thus horrible for everyone.

As for the dip.... NEVER as a caster, that's just dumb. For an archer, maybe. But that's the *only* useful class feature you're getting for those two levels, pretty much. For a melee character...full attacks can be hard to come by. Even if you do have pounce, the penalties to attack and AC don't seem worth it if the foe can fight back. Archers don't have to worry about the foe hitting back as much, but melee does.

So....
For casters: Hell no!
For archers: Maybe; appeal grows stronger the more levels you have to work with.
Melee: Unlikely to be worth it.


I didn't realize that. I've never really looked at Wild Rager before; shifting the DC from Charisma to Con does make it substantially harder to pass. It certainly makes using it for a dwarven axe thrower less attractive given their ability adjustments.

It becomes a two level dip for an extra attack per round and a rage feature that you'll almost never risk using unless the party's about to die anyhow.

Sczarni

Rule #1 of Caster dips: Does it advance casting? If no then do NOT do it.

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