making a weapon a holy symbol


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so In herolabs, which I know isn't perfect. There is a weapon quality you can add called Reliquary(Holy) to make your weapon a holy symbol for the purpose of a divine focus. The add on is 250gp. Its list the source as Ultimate Magic, but I'm having trouble finding out if its PFS legal. I believe it is, but the GM is saying its not because its from a Crafting feat. My weapon is also Holy, and Called, which I didn't craft either. So If the idea is because crafting feats are not permitted to PCs then no one can have any magic items. I would appreciate help on this thought.

thank you


I don’t play in PFS so I cannot say what their rules are. If you are not playing in PFS than rule 0 applies which is basically the GM decides what the rules mean. If you are playing in PFS I believe there is some sort of authority you can ask.

That being said your logic is pretty solid, if not crafting feats exist then no magic items can exist. From what I understand the rule for crafting feats applies to player characters not NPC’s. That is how they justify the existence of magic items. If your GM is being unreasonable about letting you use reliquary you could always try the sacred enchantment from the advance class guide. It is basically a +1 enchantment that allows a weapon to be used as a holy symbol. If you have the blessing class feature it also has some other benefits.


i would suggest posting this in the PFS forum, this forum is not for PFS stuff, although you might still find someone that knows here...


As far as I can see, the problem with the reliquary items in Ultimate Magic lies in the fact that they are only described under the Craft Reliquary Arms and Shields feat. Because this is an item creation feat, it is banned in PFS. If these items had also been given equipment entries (like every piece of gear in the CRB and Ultimate Equipment has), then it would be perfectly clear that they could be purchased without having the feat yourself. However, UM lacks any sort of equipment chapter altogether.

But hope is not lost! There is at least one clearly PFS-legal option for incorporating holy symbols into weapons and shields: the channel foci described in Adventurer's Armory include a consecrated weapon and a sanctified shield. The effects are different from reliquary weapons, but you'll avoid a protracted argument with your GM over whether you can have one.


Corrado marcucci wrote:

so In herolabs, which I know isn't perfect. There is a weapon quality you can add called Reliquary(Holy) to make your weapon a holy symbol for the purpose of a divine focus. The add on is 250gp. Its list the source as Ultimate Magic, but I'm having trouble finding out if its PFS legal. I believe it is, but the GM is saying its not because its from a Crafting feat. My weapon is also Holy, and Called, which I didn't craft either. So If the idea is because crafting feats are not permitted to PCs then no one can have any magic items. I would appreciate help on this thought.

thank you

I recall there being a "PFS only setting" in Hero Lab, try turning it on and see if this is still available to you.


Not sure how helpful this is, but Channeler of the Unknown clerics can snag any weapon you want as a holy symbol at no gold cost, along with proficiency if you needed it.
Has some iffy RP, though.


I have had my character's holy symbol incorporated into my shield, but recall, if you use one function of an object, you usually lose the other function of it for that round. E.g. Shield Bash. Without the improved shield bash feat, if you use your shield to bash, you lose its AC bonus.

DM rule was, if you have your holy symbol incorporated into weapon or armor or shield, if you use your holy symbol to, e.g. channel positive energy, you lose the other function of that item for the rest of that round. I'd put it in the shield, not the armor, especially if what you carry is a low-AC buckler.

This may not be RAW, but it feels consistent with the general theme of things like Shield Bash and gauntlets.


Eligarf wrote:
This may not be RAW, but it feels consistent with the general theme of things like Shield Bash and gauntlets.

No it's not, as there is no notable activity involved with presenting your holy symbol. You just have to have it visible, and for a drawn weapon or shield, that's always the case.

Liberty's Edge

"Presenting your holy symbol" is one of those actions (like manipulating your spell components) that haven't ever been well defined.

You have to Draw it, Present it as part of the channeling action and then put it away (a total of 2 move actions and one standard) or it is a single action that includes all the above?

Sane GMs use the second interpretation (and assume that you have your holy symbol in an easily accessible location).

If we use the second interpretation, you have no problems switching your weapon to the buckler hand (free action), channel while presenting the holy symbol, and then (standard) and then switch your weapon to the main hand (free).
All without losing the buckler bonus to AC.

So it is a bit questionable to say that using a standard action to channel while presenting the holy symbol on your buckler will make you lose the AC bonus.

- - - - - - - -

@Corrado

Your GM is right, even if for the wrong reasons.

1) Create Reliquary Arms and Shields isn't a Crafting feat. Its prerequisite is a Crafting feat, but Create Reliquary Arms and Shields is not one. Regardless of the name of the feat, crafting feats have (Item Creation) beside their name. No label, no crafting feat.

2) PFS1 Additional resources says:

Quote:
Feats: Blighted Critical, Create Reliquary Arms and Shield, Create Sanguine Elixir are not legal for play.

Finding the additional resources for PFS1 has been a core, download the PDF to be sure you have it, as it is possible that the page will be deleted in the future.


Diego Rossi wrote:

"Presenting your holy symbol" is one of those actions (like manipulating your spell components) that haven't ever been well defined.

You have to Draw it, Present it as part of the channeling action and then put it away (a total of 2 move actions and one standard) or it is a single action that includes all the above?

A Cleric's holy symbol is the divine focus component of some spells. "Prepare spell components to cast a spell" is explicitly listed as a free action (CRB pg. 183). I see absolutely no reason why the same act should turn from a free action when castign a spell to something taking up much more time when channeling energy - after all, supernatural abilities like Channel Energy are easier to do, as can be seen by them not provoking AoOs and not requiring concentration checks. And that's presuming the divine focus is not in the open!

The Exchange

It is not legal. The easiest way to parse it is to combine the reasons Tim Emrick and Diego Rossi gave.

1. The “Create Reliquary Arms and Shields” feat is not PFS legal.
2. There is no other source that tells you what the price for a reliquary weapon or shield would be.

Liberty's Edge

Derklord wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

"Presenting your holy symbol" is one of those actions (like manipulating your spell components) that haven't ever been well defined.

You have to Draw it, Present it as part of the channeling action and then put it away (a total of 2 move actions and one standard) or it is a single action that includes all the above?
A Cleric's holy symbol is the divine focus component of some spells. "Prepare spell components to cast a spell" is explicitly listed as a free action (CRB pg. 183). I see absolutely no reason why the same act should turn from a free action when castign a spell to something taking up much more time when channeling energy - after all, supernatural abilities like Channel Energy are easier to do, as can be seen by them not provoking AoOs and not requiring concentration checks. And that's presuming the divine focus is not in the open!

I agree, even if it isn't a spell.

For the spell components, the non well-defined part is if you need a free and (even temporarily) and if that free hand can be the same that make the somatic component.


Oh right, there's also the Heraldic shield enchantment if you use one of those.

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