could i take bloodline mutation with undead bloodline? if yes what happens?


Rules Discussion


like do i get the undead trait? can i chose a specific undead creature like a vampire?


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It seems equivalent to the given example of Abberations/Aberrant bloodline, with both not inherently specifying "subtype" beyond the general type. So gaining the Undead trait (effectively Negative Healing) seems appropriate, but further traits like Vampire or Ghost would not be, as they aren't inherent to the bloodline... just as you couldn't pick any random subtype of Aberration.

I would say that Darkvision is appropriate as all Undead seem to have it except those specifically being blind.

I would say Fly/Acquatic/Amphibious are not gained, as "the creatures associated with your bloodline" seems reasonably read as "all the creatures...", and those abilities aren't universal to Undead even if specific examples exist.

The phrasing of the Resistance section is noteworthy in it's difference compared to Fly/etc. Unlike the earler section, this section is phrased re: "if creatures associated with bloodline have..." (not "the creatures"). I read that as ANY creatures, which opens door to most of not all the mentioned immunities/resistances being eligible to be designated for the 20 resistance, even though none of them are "universal". EDIT: Personally I think both sections should be Errata'd to be more explicit, "all creatures" in previous section, "any creature" in this section... The current distinction is just so un-necessarily subtle, to the point I'm not even sure if that IS the actual intent.

Honestly I would vastly PREFER to be ABLE to designate a more "universal" Undead immunity/resistance, which would have to be Poison immunity/resistance. Poison along with Death, Disease, and Paralysis is one of the Immunities that basically all Undead seem to have, even though it isn't explictly attached to the Undead trait in 2E (that being a tendency of 2E to reduce generic Type abilities in favor letting each monster do whatever is appropriate). So technically those doesn't come with the Undead trait that the Feat gives you (AFAIK). While Death/Disease/Paralysis aren't even damage types you could "resist", Poison certainly is, so it's a shame it's not on the list to be able to designate. Seems like an oversight, because if it were, Undead would certainly qualify to select it. Plenty of other creatures might also have Poison immunity/resistance, so it's not just Undead Bloodline's loss.


You sure can select specific creature for roleplay benefits.
You won't however get any additional benefits from it.


wish there was a alternated version of dragon disciple for other bloodlines like fey disciple, angel disciple or undead disciple

it would make a lot of sense for a dhampir undead sorcerer to become something like a vampire disciple


Just to add on to this, I realized the GMG has section for building creatures that seems appropriate to reference for this Feat, although honestly it DOES seem strange to rely on GMG section for BUILDING creatures. If it's a general rule (even if not mandatory for specific creatures) that might be referenced by things like this Feat, it seems appropriate to include those in basic Bestiary definitions of Traits, and not just GMG Building Creatures" section... YMMV. https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1039

The section gives general abilities by creature type, despite not all of these being literally tied to the Traits as such, it seems relevant under the Feat's "appropriate for creatures with those traits" and "creatures associated with your bloodline" lines.

As to how that impacts this Feat, I would say the Resistance clause is going to be affected. Whereas previously I read "if creatures associated with bloodline have..." (differing from "the creatures" wording of preceding section) to therefore mean you can pick eligible Resistance from ANY creature of the type (which allows very creature specific resistances not at all "generally" associated with the type), I now believe the GMG is appropriate source for this (reducing the potential choices to ones broadly associated with the type, per GMG).

Unfortunately for the OP's case of Undead Bloodline, that only reduces the benefit of the Feat with no compensating gain, since none of the given types (Acid, Cold, etc) are "generally" associated with Undead in GMG, and Poison is not an eligible Resistance of the Feat (despite Poison Immunity "generally" associated with type per GMG).

Or at least that seems the honest straight forward reading to me. If GMG is critical reference for this, it seems it should be directly referenced somewhere in Feat (or general rule), or perhaps the Feat could just be more clearly structured/phrased...? Of course, Poison still seems like reasonable damage type to include in Feat's list of eligible/potential damage types to Resist. That also seems like plausible thing to have been overlooked in Editing, as Poison didn't use to be one of the "non-physical damage types" before 2E. Honestly, I would consider just generalizing the wording there to be open to ANY non-physical damage types without needing to specify every one.


It's pretty open to interpretation, which I think is where the GM comes in (as is their function).

I think for undead it could be argued that the fact that they are healed by negative damage means that they sort of have negative damage immunity, which sort of qualifies undead bloodline sorcerers to gain negative resistance.

Otherwise, I would ask the player to specify which family of creatures their bloodline specifically refers to (for example, with undead they have to choose vampires, lichs, wraiths, etc) and then select their resistances/abilities from what those creatures have (so if they chose lich, they would get cold resistance from the lich, or electricity or fire from the demilich, and a fly speed because the demilich can fly)

It's not really possible to give a RAW/RAI interpretation for this that doesn't involve "GM Fiat" (which honestly isn't the worst thing in the world, the GM exists for this purpose).

Honestly the best choice for this ability no matter how you interpret it will usually be draconic bloodline, as a black, bronze, brine, green and tarn linnorm dragons all have fly speeds and have the amphibious trait and have some kind of energy resistance or immunity.

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