Planning out a character for a campaign we're going to be in in a couple months, and I know I want to play a wizard. We're using the free archetype variant and was thinking about picking the archer archetype from the APG. I've heard good things about cloistered clerics with bows, what about wizards?
Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.
I put a build together as Wizard/Ranger a while back.
It accepts that it sucks at using a bow and so compensates through quantity rather than quality of attacks via Hunted Shot.
There is also the arcane archer archetype in the APG which does well if you want to add magic to archery, but you'd need to build on a martial base.
It works as a third action filler, cast a spell two actions then attack using the bow with the 3rd.
If you want to be cheap with spell slots you can use something like Flaming Sphere or Illusory Creature in the first turn and then sustain the spell for damage, attack with the bow and still have one action free.
The new spell Aqueous Orb makes that fun as well.
I GMed for a Wizard who invested heavily into archery via MCD Fighter. At 12th level, perhaps the best thing he got out of that was the hit points. As noted, a Strike for a caster is fine for a 3rd action as a "1-action Cantrip", but that's about it. So only invest accordingly, as there's little return.
Which is to say I'd more likely pick up a bow via an Ancestry feat and pick a different Archetype, one where the investment brought more reward.
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Why would it suck when you can use True Strike all the time?Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.
I put a build together as Wizard/Ranger a while back.
It accepts that it sucks at using a bow and so compensates through quantity rather than quality of attacks via Hunted Shot.
There is also the arcane archer archetype in the APG which does well if you want to add magic to archery, but you'd need to build on a martial base.
Wizards can only use True Strike 3-4 times per day.
I should clarify, it was less intended to be a core part of the build and more like a consistent third action like Kyrone said. The reason I'm looking to Archer archetype is because I'm a human, so no ancestral bows, and it gives scaling proficiency with just a single feat (compared to fighter archetype where you need to spend a second feat to get expert).
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If they restrict themselves to only preparing it in their 1st level slots, yes. But if they have a bow with striking runes it would probably make sense for them to prep it in some higher level slots, no?Wizards can only use True Strike 3-4 times per day.Why would it suck when you can use True Strike all the time?Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.
I put a build together as Wizard/Ranger a while back.
It accepts that it sucks at using a bow and so compensates through quantity rather than quality of attacks via Hunted Shot.
There is also the arcane archer archetype in the APG which does well if you want to add magic to archery, but you'd need to build on a martial base.
You could, but if your build allocates that many resources towards weapon accuracy, you're better off as a spontaneous caster, or better yet a martial.
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I should clarify, it was less intended to be a core part of the build and more like a consistent third action like Kyrone said. The reason I'm looking to Archer archetype is because I'm a human, so no ancestral bows, and it gives scaling proficiency with just a single feat (compared to fighter archetype where you need to spend a second feat to get expert).
Wizards and Strikes are tricky enough that one either builds for it specifically or accepts a high likelihood of failure. A better consistent third action would be Demoralize, Recall Knowledge, Sustain a Spell, Metamagic, Shield, Step, Stride...the list goes on.
IMHO, one should build a PC around the 3rd action rather than leave it as an afterthought.
Hmm, a possibility is using a shifting rune on a divination staff, turning it into a gauntlet, and then using all of those slots on true strike.
Is it allowed though? It has to take the same number of hands to wield, and be a melee weapon. Both are satisfied from the weapon table, except free hand says it doesn't take up your hand. Ambiguity.
One would have to assume a Staff can still function as a Staff when it's a gauntlet. As you noted, there's ambiguity.
I'd say no. Otherwise, why wouldn't every weapon have the options staves have?
Technically, a Shifting Rune makes a permanent change. Champions w/ Blade Ally could found a booming business by converting a magic staff every day so that their shop had a variety of weapons that could cast spells.
I know my PCs would buy one, even if just on a shield boss. :)
One could hold a Staff of Divination in one hand and a throwing weapon in the other. Not sure what throwing weapons are available via Ancestry feats or Archetypes, yet even a javelin is competitive.
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Just go for it, pick Archer and go have fun with that.
It's a decent 3rd action, you are only between -1 to -3 less likely to hit compared to a Master martial anyway, but you are still a full Arcane Caster.
If your group likes stuff like Trip or Grabbing then even better because now the creature is flatfooted for you ranged attacks. Cast something like Phantasmal Killer for frightened and shoot with the Bow and now have like around +2-4 to hit compared to normal.
"Hahah, Bow go pew, pew."
Since you go wizard and want to go archer you should consider eldritch archer later on
it starts at level 6/expert bow prophiciency earliest -> you get that prophiciency from the archer archetype and then you can do lots of stuff with your bow thats kind of awesome
Since you go wizard and want to go archer you should consider eldritch archer later on
it starts at level 6/expert bow prophiciency earliest -> you get that prophiciency from the archer archetype and then you can do lots of stuff with your bow thats kind of awesome
You get that proficiency only at level 11, so earliest you could drop into Eldritch Archer is level 12.
You get that proficiency only at level 11, so earliest you could drop into Eldritch Archer is level 12.Since you go wizard and want to go archer you should consider eldritch archer later on
it starts at level 6/expert bow prophiciency earliest -> you get that prophiciency from the archer archetype and then you can do lots of stuff with your bow thats kind of awesome
Thats true, wizards certainly dont have it easy on their own to become eldritch archers
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Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.
if wizard got simple weapon progression instead of the stupid specific weapon progression you could at least get some from Elven ancestry
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Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.if wizard got simple weapon progression instead of the stupid specific weapon progression you could at least get some from Elven ancestry
If I were the OP, I'd ask the GM to house-rule away the wizards uniquely bad weapon proficiencies.
If they said no, then I would either play some other caster or give up on the bow/caster idea altogether.
Wizard's awful martial abilities make it awkward, but it's not unplayable.if wizard got simple weapon progression instead of the stupid specific weapon progression you could at least get some from Elven ancestry
But a Wizard can get proficiencies in longbows, composite longbows, shortbows, and composite shortbows through those Elf feats.
ELVEN WEAPON FAMILIARITY
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You are trained with longbows, composite longbows, longswords, rapiers, shortbows, and composite shortbows.
You are now Trained in longbows, composite longbows, shortbows, and composite shortbows.
ELVEN WEAPON EXPERTISE
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Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in certain weapons, you also gain that proficiency in longbows, composite longbows, longswords, rapiers, shortbows, composite shortbows, and all elf weapons in which you are trained.
By that point you are Expert with your class weapons so you are also Expert with longbows, composite longbows, shortbows, and composite shortbows.
No simple weapon progression needed for the bows.
Thats true, wizards certainly dont have it easy on their own to become eldritch archersYou get that proficiency only at level 11, so earliest you could drop into Eldritch Archer is level 12.Since you go wizard and want to go archer you should consider eldritch archer later on
it starts at level 6/expert bow prophiciency earliest -> you get that prophiciency from the archer archetype and then you can do lots of stuff with your bow thats kind of awesome
Interestingly, Wizards automatically qualify for Eldritch Archer at 11th level when their proficiency in crossbows becomes Expert. I find the concept of a crossbow-using Eldritch Archer rather intriguing.
Well, Eldritch Archer says 'Expert in at least one kind of bow' - I am not sure if I would count a crossbow for it
I get where you come from with this though...
Well, Eldritch Archer says 'Expert in at least one kind of bow' - I am not sure if I would count a crossbow for it
I get where you come from with this though...
According to the weapon tables a crossbow is a type of bow. Just like a rapier is a type of sword. And the Eldritch Archer text is full of references to crossbows and bolts.
Archer is a great archetype for a wizard. Just take the dedication though, you probably shouldn't take the other feats. Cast a spell with two actions and strike with a third sometimes.
Archer is a great archetype for a wizard. Just take the dedication though, you probably shouldn't take the other feats. Cast a spell with two actions and strike with a third sometimes.
If they are playing with the free archetype varient you get an extra feat every 2 levels for using only on dedication feats so why not grab them? Double shot and Quick Shot are great and help with action economy.