Investigator's Known Weakness Feat and Recall Knowledge checks.

[N N 959]

The Investigator apparently gets this Class Feat opton

Known Weakness wrote:

Whenever you Devise a Stratagem, you can also attempt a check to Recall Knowlege as part of that action. If you critically succeed at the RK check, you notice a weakness and gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your attack roll from DaS. If you immediately convey this information to your allies as part of the check, each ally gains a +1 circumstance bonus on their next attack roll against the subject, as long as their attack is made before the beginning of your next turn.

As written, it appears the Inv can use Known Weakness every round, on the same creature no less. However, would the DC for the RK check increase as well?

Core p 506 wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 506

Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.

Is there any RAW on how much harder the next RK check should be?

[The Raven Black]

I think the Recall Knowledge included in Devise a Stratagem only gives the +1 and does not give any info about the creature. So later attempts do not get the higher difficulty IMO.

Actually I see it as another use of Recall Knowledge with no interaction with the usual use of the check (ie, getting info).

[Ajax Arrowhawk]

Quote:

I think the Recall Knowledge included in Devise a Stratagem only gives the +1 and does not give any info about the creature. So later attempts do not get the higher difficulty IMO.

I don't follow. The RK check doesn't come from DaS, it comes from a Class Feat you have to buy. Known Weaknesss simply gives you a free RK check every time you use DaS, just like Monster Hunter does when you choose a prey.

Known Weaknesses is giving you a RK check. Just like Monster Hunter for the Ranger. Both of them convey Info as any normal RK check would. You only get the +1 if you critically succeed on the underlying check.

Increasing the difficulty would be a way for Paizo to cap the benefit from a 1st level Feat and that seems totally consistent with PF2, especially since, unlike the Ranger version, Known Weaknesss does not appear to have the limit of once per day vs a creature.

[Evilgm]

The Raven Black wrote:

I think the Recall Knowledge included in Devise a Stratagem only gives the +1 and does not give any info about the creature. So later attempts do not get the higher difficulty IMO.

Recall Knowledge is a specific action, which includes getting the info on the creature. Just like if it said make a Demoralize check, you would apply the Frightened on top of other effects.

[Ascalaphus]

It doesn't have any language that would let you avoid the increasing DC, so yeah, it'd get harder over time.

I don't think getting the +1 is the point of the feat though. The point of the feat is saving actions, the +1 is a side reward.

[N N 959]

Ascalaphus wrote:

It doesn't have any language that would let you avoid the increasing DC, so yeah, it'd get harder over time.

So what is the increase per attempt?

[Ascalaphus]

N N 959 wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

It doesn't have any language that would let you avoid the increasing DC, so yeah, it'd get harder over time.

So what is the increase per attempt?

It's one of the better-hidden rules:

CRB p. 506 wrote:

ADDITIONAL KNOwLEDGE

Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check
to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover
more information. After a success, further uses of Recall
Knowledge can yield more information, but you should
adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a
character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed
a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has
recalled everything they know about the subject.

You then page back a bit to page 504 to find out how those adjustments work, and you see that they go +2, +5, +10.

[N N 959]

Thank you for the info.

[Lightning Raven]

Ascalaphus wrote:

It doesn't have any language that would let you avoid the increasing DC, so yeah, it'd get harder over time.

I don't think getting the +1 is the point of the feat though. The point of the feat is saving actions, the +1 is a side reward.

That's certainly how I think about my Ranger's Monster Hunter ability.

[Ascalaphus]

Considering how often I would have liked to know more about the monster, but can't really spare the action for Recall Knowledge, I think this (and Monster Hunter) are decent abilities.

[caubocalypse]

How long does the +1 from Recall Knowledge last for the Investigator? Is it only for the round they succeeded the check? I know the duration for other members is for a round.

[Darche Schneider]

Ajax Arrowhawk wrote:

Quote:

I think the Recall Knowledge included in Devise a Stratagem only gives the +1 and does not give any info about the creature. So later attempts do not get the higher difficulty IMO.

I don't follow. The RK check doesn't come from DaS, it comes from a Class Feat you have to buy. Known Weaknesss simply gives you a free RK check every time you use DaS, just like Monster Hunter does when you choose a prey.

Known Weaknesses is giving you a RK check. Just like Monster Hunter for the Ranger. Both of them convey Info as any normal RK check would. You only get the +1 if you critically succeed on the underlying check.

Increasing the difficulty would be a way for Paizo to cap the benefit from a 1st level Feat and that seems totally consistent with PF2, especially since, unlike the Ranger version, Known Weaknesss does not appear to have the limit of once per day vs a creature.

Course you could have been a bard, and given eveny one a +1 every round anyways at level 1

[Deadmanwalking]

caubocalypse wrote:

How long does the +1 from Recall Knowledge last for the Investigator? Is it only for the round they succeeded the check? I know the duration for other members is for a round.

Known Weaknesses says it applies 'to your attack roll from Devise a Stratagem', singular.

It applies to the banked attack roll you get from the Devise A Stratagem that triggered it and no other rolls. The banked roll from Devise A Stratagem can only be used later in the same round it is activated, as is discussed under Devise A Stratagem itself.