Will there be an Avid Collector for non-core rulebooks in the AcP?


Pathfinder Society

5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh

My wife really wants a Khopesh but leveled past the Scenario that provided it before it came out. Now she is forced to level her second character so she can Bequeathal the Khopesh to her Main character.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

It sounds like the system is working exactly as intended for your wife. As an alternate, she could GM said scenario, apply the chronicle to a "GM baby" then apply the Bequeathal boon and transfer it to the character of her choice.

It is not unusual for characters to level out of a range of scenarios that include a useful boon for a different character, especially if said scenario is released after the fact. Sometimes it sucks, but I don't think you will generally generate much sympathy from a situation where you are "forced" to play a game.

I'm assuming the scenario you are referring to is replayable since otherwise there aren't many (any?) options to replay scenario in 2E and so the second character would not be able to play for the access anyway.

Radiant Oath 1/5 *

TwilightKnight wrote:
I'm assuming the scenario you are referring to is replayable since otherwise there aren't many (any?) options to replay scenario in 2E and so the second character would not be able to play for the access anyway.

Presumably if the first character had played the scenario she wouldn't be stuck making a new character just to run it. Coincidentally though, that particular scenario is Replayable.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Evilgm wrote:
if the first character had played the scenario she wouldn't be stuck making a new character just to run it

No, you don't have to create a new character in order to run the scenario, but in order to transfer the boon to the 1st character, it has to come from a 2nd character. So if she ran the table in order to gain access to the chronicle, she would have to create a 2nd character, even if it was "just on paper" so she could apply the chronicle and then Bequeathal. There is no function to transfer the boon directly from an unassigned GM credit to an existing character

5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh

Bequeathal is a Tier 3 boon. That means a character would have to be at least level 5 to have enough Rep to transfer the Item. Creating a character to transfer a boon would be impossible.

She is already Trying to level the one character the Khopesh is assigned to, to level 5 to use Bequeathal.

We are just looking for a faster measure.

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

The thread on unconventional weaponry has Michael Sayre (Organized play developer) saying that the feat Unconventional Weaponry can be used to gain access to Katana.
It would be logical that the same feat could then grant access to Khopesh too.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzc?Adventures-Near-And-Far#31

Quote:
Unconventional Weaponry can be used to access the katana, as it is a weapon common to a culture in our setting. I realize the rules on this are still a little sparse, so we'll look at seeing if we can put up a list of PFS-specific access entries for the appropriate uncommon weapons, which should clarify Unconventional Weaponry's applicability.

Radiant Oath 1/5 *

TwilightKnight wrote:
Evilgm wrote:
if the first character had played the scenario she wouldn't be stuck making a new character just to run it
No, you don't have to create a new character in order to run the scenario, but in order to transfer the boon to the 1st character, it has to come from a 2nd character. So if she ran the table in order to gain access to the chronicle, she would have to create a 2nd character, even if it was "just on paper" so she could apply the chronicle and then Bequeathal. There is no function to transfer the boon directly from an unassigned GM credit to an existing character

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Her 2001 character levelled past the scenario before it came out, so she can't play it. If she wants the item she needs a 2002 character, with 50+ Reputation, to Bequeath it. Why does it matter in any way if the scenario is repeatable?

5/5 *****

Tommi Ketonen wrote:

The thread on unconventional weaponry has Michael Sayre (Organized play developer) saying that the feat Unconventional Weaponry can be used to gain access to Katana.

It would be logical that the same feat could then grant access to Khopesh too.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzc?Adventures-Near-And-Far#31

Quote:
Unconventional Weaponry can be used to access the katana, as it is a weapon common to a culture in our setting. I realize the rules on this are still a little sparse, so we'll look at seeing if we can put up a list of PFS-specific access entries for the appropriate uncommon weapons, which should clarify Unconventional Weaponry's applicability.

It might be logical but with a similar statement it isnt legal.

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

Eh, the text of the feat:

Quote:
You’ve familiarized yourself with a particular weapon, potentially from another ancestry or culture. Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a simple weapon.

It's debetable whether Khopesh are common in another culture or not. Spend a feat, pick the Khopesh, check with your GM before the game (easier if you consistently play with the same GMs often) and ask them if the feat applies to Khopesh. Bring a back up weapon in case the GM declines.

PFS2 has a lot less ambiguity than PFS1 in which weird and wacky combinations of powers and abilities caused unexpected results - table variation is... undesireable, but inevitable, and this is one of those situations where the variation is going to be pretty small (either you use Khopesh or something else), unlike situations where your whole mechanical concept might depend on how the GM rules the issue. So, until there's an official ruling, ask your GM.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Unconventional Weaponry requires that it's common in some other culture. But who would decide that? Not you or I. That'd be up to either the setting developers or PFS leadership to do.

For example, it's possible that the sawtooth saber isn't considered "common" in any culture at all. While it's the signature of a certain Mediogalti-based organization, that doesn't mean that the whole of the island is toting them.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

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Quote:


But who would decide that? Not you or I.

Yes, You, me, or whoever else is GMing.

Quote:


We understand that sometimes a Game Master has to make rules adjudications on the fly, deal with unexpected player choices...

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience.

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience.

The khopesh is all over the place in Osirian culture, to the point where I have seen suggestions to treat it as Martial in Mummy's mask and other adventures set in Osirian. (replacing longsword)

Like seriously, pretty much every martial Osirian opponent has a Khopesh.

Grand Archive 4/5 ***

5 people marked this as a favorite.

[rant]

I am becoming very tired of people saying "you cannot do this fun thing because I, as a GM, have abdicated my responsibility to make GM judgements, and insist that all other GMs do so as well.

I am even more tired of people say this in the cause of PFS being "Rules as written" so no variation is allowed. Setting aside the inherent absurdity of the idea that Paizo's writing is so clean and unambiguous as to lead to a single interpretation of Rules as Written, the entire concept of "Rules as Written" is mentioned *NO WHERE* in *ANY* of Guides I have *Ever* seen.

So to say PFS requires rules as written when it is no where written that it does is the height of intellectual dishonesty

If you are going to GM, do your job. If you are not the GM, get out of the way and let them do their job.
[/rant]

I have no desire to discuss and feel no need to defend anything in the above rant, and will, frankly, ignore any post responding to it.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:
the entire concept of "Rules as Written" is mentioned *NO WHERE* in *ANY* of Guides I have *Ever* seen.

Or any Paizo published material.

I've been saying for years that the concept of "RAW" is unsupported and damaging to this hobby.

The acronym doesn't even mean anything. Reading is an interpretive activity and is evidenced time and time again that multiple people can read the same text and walk away with different results.

If "RAW" was real, that literally (as in the literal sense) couldn't happen.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Jared Thaler wrote:
Quote:


But who would decide that? Not you or I.

Yes, You, me, or whoever else is GMing.

Quote:


We understand that sometimes a Game Master has to make rules adjudications on the fly, deal with unexpected player choices...

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience.

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience.

The khopesh is all over the place in Osirian culture, to the point where I have seen suggestions to treat it as Martial in Mummy's mask and other adventures set in Osirian. (replacing longsword)

Like seriously, pretty much every martial Osirian opponent has a Khopesh.

But that's a terrible way to do it for organized play.

If every GM has to decide again whether you could make that build choice or not, then half the time your character is legal and the other half he's not. That goes against the whole point of using the same rules so you can take your character from table to table.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Also keep in mind that the clause in unconventional weaponry letting you take a weapon "common in another culture" means that if your character actually is from that other culture, you'd be able to take that weapon without even needing the feat.

So if you're from Osirion, can you take the khopesh without needing a feat?

If you're from Tian Xia, can you take a katana without needing the feat?

I'm very much in favor of clarifying Unconventional Weaponry to just let people take any weapon, but that clarification has to come from PFS leadership so that it works at every table, not half the time.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Lau Bannenberg wrote:


But that's a terrible way to do it for organized play.

If every GM has to decide again whether you could make that build choice or not, then half the time your character is legal and the other half he's not. That goes against the whole point of using the same rules so you can take your character from table to table.

I have half a dozen characters that work that way, where there are multiple interpretations of how my characters powers work. I make sure I have backup plans and I roll with it. I had one character whose shtick was completely nullified by a GM who declared that the Ogres (who stand 10 feet tall) all lived in a cave with an 8 foot ceiling.

And no, just because the weapon is common in that culture doesn't mean you can take it without the feat. Just like the fact that gnome weapons are common in gnome culture doesn't let you take gnome uncommon weapons without a feat.

5/5 *** Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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Lau Bannenberg wrote:


So if you're from Osirion, can you take the khopesh without needing a feat?

If you're from Tian Xia, can you take a katana without needing the feat?

Uncommon wrote:
Something of uncommon rarity requires special training or comes from a particular culture or part of the world. Some character choices give access to uncommon options, and the GM can choose to allow access for anyone.

No. If you were running a home game you could say everybody has access to the khopesh, a particularly appropriate decision if say the campaign was set in Osirion. For OP we're told

Character Options wrote:
If the option is uncommon or rarer, they must also have access to the option. Characters can gain access in a variety of ways...

For this campaign the OP team has given us all access to the Pathfinder Archetypes (For obvious reasons), other options can be gained by taking particular common options or via boons acp/chronicle.

The issue at hand is Unconventional Weaponry requires a subjective decision as what's common in various cultures.

Now the rules require we make subjective decisions all the time. Almost every DC in the book is written in a similar way to treat wounds.

Treat Wounds wrote:
The Medicine check DC is usually 15, though the GM might adjust it based on the circumstances

It's written in a way that empowers the GM to actually set the DC to whatever they think is appropriate.

Spells like Parch ask GMs to judge the moisture level of creatures from dry to normal to wet.

So the answer isn't there's no explicit list so nothing qualifies.

Instead it's a call from GM to GM. Ambiguities like that are fine for what enemies are dry (and better than a massive list for one obscure focus spell) but when they effect fundamental character building decisions there's a problem that needs resolving by the OP team.

In the meantime do you best as a player and GM to act responsibility. Try to avoid picking grey choices that put your GM in an awkward position, and as a GM don't automatically reject everything because there's no list to hold your hand.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Robert Hetherington wrote:
Instead it's a call from GM to GM. Ambiguities like that are fine for what enemies are dry (and better than a massive list for one obscure focus spell) but when they effect fundamental character building decisions there's a problem that needs resolving by the OP team.

In this particular instance, it's a discussion for the Paizo creative staff (and one we've got scheduled for discussion). The particulars of what weapons are common where are ultimately something that needs to be decided by the creative director, likely with the input of the entire development team.

Not just for any kind of game balance or immersion perspective, but also as a way of having some cultural nuance and sensitivity. It is probably not strictly true that katanas are common throughout all of Tian-Xia (or even that anyone from any part of Tian-Xia would have access to them), since katanas are part of just one real-world culture and Tian-Xia has many diverse cultures within it.

In a perfect world, from my personal perspective, the Core Rulebook would have had access conditions listed for all the uncommon weapons, either in the weapon tables or in the region entries, which would have also set a precedent to ensure that the following books also included such entries. But that didn't happen, and that means that we need to define those things after the fact, which we can't do without input from all the other people responsible for shaping Golarion.

Defining what regions grant access to what weapons is something that requires more consideration than may be immediately obvious. Personally, I hate that we said katanas can be grabbed as a weapon common in another culture with Unconventional Weaponry (even though I'm the one who conveyed that information), because we haven't clearly defined what that culture is. It shouldn't be "anyone from Tian Xia", because Tian Xia is a diverse continent with many cultures and I don't even know if katanas, a Japanese weapon, are also supposed to be representative of e.g. Korean jingums or if those might pop up with their own stats in a future book. Similarly, I'm pretty sure khopesh are supposed to be common in Osirion, but I'm less sure how far beyond Osirion's borders that commonality is supposed to extend. Should they be common to anyone from northern Garund, or just specifically that country? Are temple swords common in Vudra, or are they universally uncommon and something you only find at certain monasteries? We're trying to trickle out access to things through spot clarifications and Chronicles to keep the campaign flowing, but these need much larger and more in-depth consideration because they intersect with issues of representation and cultural touchstones.

I'd love to have answers to these questions as much as anyone else, but they go beyond my team's ability to answer and the last year hasn't been particularly conducive to getting the creative director, the bulk of the Pathfinder developers, and representatives from the design team all in the same place at the same time long enough to have a proper discussion on the matter and make some decisions. I'm hoping we'll be able to append a proper chart listing all the uncommon weapons that should have regional access and the regions that grant access to them to some of the post-GenCon sanctioning. I'd hoped to get it tagged to the APG sanctioning but we just weren't able to mobilize and coordinate everyone who needed to be involved in time to do that.

5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh

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Hey Michael,

We read your reply and would like to thank you.

I will say that my wife is Korean and she said that if you wanted to make a weapon that was more representing a Korean, it would be the Gakgung. A Gakgung is a Traditional Korean Composite Bow, it is more of a representation of Korean weapons than a jingums.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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I must be missing something regarding Unconventional Weaponry.

It doesn't matter where in Golarion you're grabbing access from; all that matters is you're grabbing access.

You don't need a regional list for that.

FWIW, I am one of those GMs who has been extrapolating the Katana ruling to other Uncommon weapons as well, for the same reason.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

The relevant text:

You’ve familiarized yourself with a particular weapon, potentially from another ancestry or culture. Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture. You gain access to that weapon, and for the purpose of determining your proficiency, that weapon is a simple weapon.

The focus of the feat is the weapon; nowhere does it say you have to select a region.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Nefreet wrote:

I must be missing something regarding Unconventional Weaponry.

Nope, that's correct. You don't need to specify which culture for Unconventional Weaponry, just select a weapon that is common somewhere other than where you're from. It's just not necessarily true that every weapon is common somewhere, and it's less than ideal that without some clear definitions it can be easier to access a weapon from another culture than your own.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I agree that Longbow access (for example) not being achievable with the feat is a dilemma worthy of academic debate.

Seems easier to issue a PFS ruling that any weapon (maybe barring an exception or two) can be accessed with Unconventional Weaponry, rather than coming up with a regional list.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Thanks for your time, btw.

5/5 *** Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Seems easy enough to make the feat let you pick anything that's standard availability.

PFS frequently waives or simplifies story based requirements.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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@Michael: thanks for chiming in, that confirms what I suspected to be the case behind the scenes.

On first getting the CRB I thought we'd be ending up with a country/region table, but nowadays, I don't think that's the best approach anymore. Consider:

In a home game, uncommon items are things that aren't commonly found in most places, but they might be common in some places. An elven curve blade is unusual in Absalom, but not unusual in Kyonin. A katana would be unusual in Absalom, but not in Minkai.

In this home game, it would be the GM's decision whether a weapon could be more commonly found in a specific place. That's also why unconventional weaponry doesn't have to give you access to weapons commonly found in your own culture. However, it's a system that runs on GM's discretion of what weapons are common where.

After having seen PFS2 run for a year, I don't think that's the best approach for PFS2. Making and keeping up to date a curated list of weapons common in specific areas is not something that PFS2 is really great at - it requires chiming in from multiple people, who all also have other things to do. PFS1 was never great at updating such lists.

I think it would be better for PFS2 to pick a "work solution" that removes the need for constant updating. Instead of for each new weapon having to say that it can be accessed with unconventional weaponry, or having to specify which country it's from, let's do the following instead:

* Assume all uncommon weapons of standard availability are "culture" weapons unless explicitly specified otherwise. This covers almost every case.[1]
* Allow Unconventional Weaponry to select all these weapons, even if you're a member of that culture yourself.

This would have a couple of significant benefits:

* No more weapon-by-weapon maintenance needed from setting developers and PFS teams. Simplified sanctioning process.
* Avoids the "I had to be from NOT-Tian Xia to get a katana" weirdness.
* Avoids weird situation where it's better to be foreign if you want to use an advanced weapon (that would be treated as martial by UW).
* Big reduction in table variation and player uncertainty about their build.
* Reduces incentive to chronicle-fish for weapon access.

[1] The only possible "organization" weapons I can think of are Aldori dueling swords and sawtooth sabres. The Aldori sword is currently already allowed as a regional weapon however, and in PF1 the Inner Sea World Guide stated:

ISWG p. 115 wrote:
The use of the guild’s signature weapons, sawtooth sabres, is allowed throughout the island and beyond as a form of implied threat, to keep the reality of the Mantis presence in mind at all times.
ISWG p. 271 wrote:
While the sawtooth sabre is as much a symbol of the Red Mantis as are their distinctive red and black uniforms or their insectoid helms and masks, the Red Mantis do not particularly mind the spread of sawtooth sabre use throughout the Inner Sea region. To the Red Mantis, the wider this deadly symbol spreads, the greater the society’s fame and notoriety extends. Of course, those who disrespect the sawtooth sabre by wielding it poorly in combat are often visited with the same brutal punishments as any who would dare besmirch the Red Mantis legacy.

So there's a firm enough basis in lore to allow picking them with Unconventional Weaponry too.

TL;DR - campaign leadership, please make the pragmatic decision!

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

Michael Sayre wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

I must be missing something regarding Unconventional Weaponry.

Nope, that's correct. You don't need to specify which culture for Unconventional Weaponry, just select a weapon that is common somewhere other than where you're from. It's just not necessarily true that every weapon is common somewhere, and it's less than ideal that without some clear definitions it can be easier to access a weapon from another culture than your own.

Michael - How would you suggest the community handles uncommon weapons and unconventional weaponry until the campaign/creative leadership has addressed the issue?

There are quite a few uncommon weapons that don't have an ancestry trait attached and are, currently, unavailable (aside from a particular chronicle sheets) unless access through unconventional weaponry is OK.

Should we just... Avoid Unconventional weaponry until a clarification is ready, or assume that most (if not all) uncommon weapons are common somewhere, thus allowing access - with the knowledge that this may change in the future when the issue is addressed (requiring a retraining of that feat in that particular event)?

Envoy's Alliance *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I hope they will add other source too I have an eye for an iruxi named axolexl that perform in dance looking for a bladed scarf

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just posting to say that I am 100% behind Lau's proposal which would be simple, easy-to-implement, and future proof.

Hmm

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Hmm wrote:

Just posting to say that I am 100% behind Lau's proposal which would be simple, easy-to-implement, and future proof.

Hmm

It also makes it harder for non-human ancestries to access uncommon weapons, prevents us having the option to simply give uncommon weapons to people based on their home region, and forces an entire rules subsection to become subservient to a human ancestry feat. Sorry Korakai! Your entire backstory is invalidated for org play unless we murder your parents and give you some human fosters.

We've got a game that in its first year already has more ancestries, viable build paths, player-accessible options, and flavorful choices than PF1 had in its first three years. We've consistently opened up more content from each new book for player consumption than we could in the past. While I understand the desire for more stuff right now, I think we're at a point where it's better to do things right than to do things a little bit faster.

We have the best sanctioning flow we've ever had. APG was done weeks ahead of time, Lost Omens Legends is already queued up and ready to go, etc. To me, you don't undermine the future of the campaign for short-term, temporary gains when there's an arguably better solution that doesn't involve hobbling the campaign long-term and making unintuitive roadblocks for a system that has accessibility as one of its selling points. And I genuinely believe that hijacking a feat from its intended ancestry or forcing other ancestries to take Adopted Ancestry (which isn't even going to be available to many of them until 3rd level) isn't the way to fix that.

Now, I love PF1. My career was built on PF1. But it's also a janky system held together with duct tape that barely worked at the best of times. It was just so full of wonder that we kind of forgave all that. But if you look at PF2, there is an active effort not to create story barriers you can't surmount in PFS. Rather than hand-waving most of the story requirements for joining organizations and such, we added boons that represent you fulfilling those story requirements. We've actively and intentionally ushered as many new story elements in on screen as we can, from goblins to kobolds and beyond.

Many of you may not realize this, but this campaign has seen company-record-setting, explosive growth. PF2 org play slam dunks on the reporting, percentage of total customers engaged, and just general size and breadth of our communities with the program compared to the first 5 years of PF1. I attribute that primarily to two things: a dedicated volunteer community who loves this game and makes their tables a welcoming place for anyone looking to play, and a system that doesn't need 30 pages of house rules to translate from a home group to an open play setting. I realize it's the first group proposing this solution, but it's part of my job to help balance the community's wants against the program's needs, and I think a Minkai samurai being able to wield a katana, wakizashi, and daikyu because she's a samurai from Minkai and not because of awkward and unnecessary feat expenditures is part of that.

Rather than argue this, which isn't going to be super effective because as I mentioned previously, I've already engaged the creative staff for this at a company level, give me some time. I mentioned until the end of year earlier in this thread; if 2021 rolls around and we still don't have an acceptable solution in place, we'll reevaluate what's an appropriate and reasonable solution. But we haven't even passed the one year mark and we're kicking ass and taking names, selling out multiple print runs across multiple PF2 books and product lines under conditions that frankly should have ended this company. Give us a little more time to keep doing this thing right.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Michael, thank you again for that answer.

I don't entirely agree on unconventional weaponry limiting what other ancestries could get - UW would allow a human to acquire an elven curve blade just based on the CRB alone. My own take on the CRB is that in a home game, that would be fine because the elf could already pick up the curve blade simply by being from Kyonin, wouldn't even have to take the elven weaponry feat (that's more for sword-sorcerers to tone down the proficiency requirements).

But I see your point about it being a potential limiter on design that needs to be treated with care. In PFS1, for years, any new martial art style had to be balanced very awkwardly because it could be accessed far earlier than at intended level by Master of Many Style monks / monk dips, until at last the archetype was changed. This opened up a lot more design space again.

PFS1 didn't have a good track record of keeping "lists" up to date. I see an enormous amount of activity at Paizo, and a lot of it is always focused on the Next Big Thing, like getting the new book out, the new playtest going, the new convention supplied. Housekeeping tasks like updating such a list, or giving errata for already existing books, often get pushed to the back of the queue, and there's constantly new things being added to the front of the queue.

That sounds like an accusation but that's not what I want it to be. I really like a lot of the new stuff. But there are only so many hours in a developer's day. So that's why I think the process should be set up so that it requires less tending to older projects to keep them up to date.

Now, you could certainly beat those expectations of mine, you've beaten a lot of them this year. But I'm happy that you're keeping the second option in mind.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Sacramento

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Hmm wrote:

Just posting to say that I am 100% behind Lau's proposal which would be simple, easy-to-implement, and future proof.

Hmm

I proposed something?... Oh Wait... Damn you Lau!!!!

2/5

I don't know maybe a 1st level feat for humans that gives cultural weapons based on a list should be a thing to balance it with the other ancestries cultural weapon feats.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Muncie

Is the avid collector AcP boon how you get your uncommon items.

5/5 *****

Jay Zicht wrote:
Is the avid collector AcP boon how you get your uncommon items.

It is but the list of sanctioned items is limited and it only covers the CRB currently.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston

Jay Zicht wrote:

Is the avid collector AcP boon how you get your uncommon items.

Its _a_ way to get access to uncommon items, that you didn't already get access to via a chronicle or other access granting source. If you already have access from some source, you don't need to purchase the Avid Collector boon as well for that particular item.

Envoy's Alliance *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wish the list could be changed soon since even if I do have access to a kukri with my rogue from a boon. the only way I can be expert with it is with unconventional weaponry which I can't select.

There no dedication or feat allowing me to use martial weapon that would allow me at some reasonable point turn expert while that feat lower it to simple. ( Hope I make sense)

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, France—Paris

Kromkore wrote:

I wish the list could be changed soon since even if I do have access to a kukri with my rogue from a boon. the only way I can be expert with it is with unconventional weaponry which I can't select.

There no dedication or feat allowing me to use martial weapon that would allow me at some reasonable point turn expert while that feat lower it to simple. ( Hope I make sense)

That being gated behind specific options or classes was probably on design, otherwise they would have loosened the requisites earlier.

But I don't think they'd lose much making it easier, just that it doesn't sound a priority right now.

Envoy's Alliance *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

What I would like to see added is something like if you have access to an unconventional weapon from a boon or something else you can then choose that weapon with unconventional weaponry.

Grand Lodge 4/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia

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Michael Sayre wrote:
Many of you may not realize this, but this campaign has seen company-record-setting, explosive growth. PF2 org play slam dunks on the reporting, percentage of total customers engaged, and just general size and breadth of our communities with the program compared to the first 5 years of PF1. I attribute that primarily to two things: a dedicated volunteer community who loves this game and makes their tables a welcoming place for anyone looking to play, and a system that doesn't need 30 pages of house rules to translate from a home group to an open play setting. I realize it's the first group proposing this solution, but it's part of my job to help balance the community's wants against the program's needs, and I think a Minkai samurai being able to wield a katana, wakizashi, and daikyu because she's a samurai from Minkai and not because of awkward and unnecessary feat expenditures is part of that.

Thank you for saying that the campaign has seen company-record-setting, explosive growth. I'm sick and tired of all the naysayers out there that keep making idiotic and totally unfounded statements about Pathfinder Second Edition being a failure. Those people don't like 2e and are flat out lying to everyone regarding its success. I've even pointed out to them that Paizo has not laid anyone off and is actually hiring during a pandemic that is crippling other companies in the TTRPG industry.

Pathfinder Second Edition is a huge success. It is growing daily. Some of these folks think it is a failure because Paizo didn't sell every single copy of the CRB at Gen Con last year and immediately order a second printing. The idea that Paizo published MORE CRBs for the Second Edition than the original print run it ordered when First Edition came out escapes them.

None of them have even bothered to play Second Edition either. Their ignorance of the game system is pretty obvious. So thanks for pointing out the obvious. Paizo should trumpet some sales news into the larger TTRPG community about their success with 2e. I'm sure the naysayers will ignore it, but more people would ignore them too.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Xathos of Varisia wrote:
<<snip>>

Hallelujah! Now pass the megaphone!

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, France—Paris

Gary Bush wrote:
Xathos of Varisia wrote:
<<snip>>
Hallelujah! Now pass the megaphone!

Diplomacy isn't a vainglorious word, though.

Sovereign Court 3/5 *

andreww wrote:
Jay Zicht wrote:
Is the avid collector AcP boon how you get your uncommon items.
It is but the list of sanctioned items is limited and it only covers the CRB currently.

Another issue from how it is explained to me is that yes, that boon and others may grant you access to an item but you still don't get proficiency in that item. And then normally when you take a feat to gain proficiency in that item it will not advance when your proficiencies increase in gameplay.

1/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Agent, Online—VTT

I think I'm missing something. When was it ever implied that the boon granted anything except Access?

Sovereign Court 3/5 *

HammerJack wrote:
I think I'm missing something. When was it ever implied that the boon granted anything except Access?

What good is a boon if it is only to say "you can buy it but you still can't use it"?

2/5 5/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Avid Collector wrote:
The items available are: aeon stone (clear spindle), aeon stone (dull gray), aeon stone (gold nodule), aeon stone (lavender and green ellipsoid), aeon stone (lavender ellipsoid), aeon stone (orange prism), aeon stone (pink rhomboid), aeon stone (tourmaline sphere), bloodletting kukri, brooch of shielding, cape of the mountebank, channel protection amulet, chime of opening, clandestine cloak, dancing rune, dragonslayer’s shield, elven chain, floating shield, forge warden, greater disrupting rune, holy prayer beads, invisibility potion, katana, katar, keen rune, kukri, mending lattice, oil of animation, oil of keen edges, panacea, potion of tongues, ring of counterspells, spell-storing rune, spiked chain, or swift block cabochon

The boon doesn't prevent you from using what you obtained the boon to gain Access to. There's plenty of things that don't even require a specific proficiency to use (look at all those aeon stones for just one example).

However, if you're not proficient in Light Armor, don't get Avid Collector to buy elven chain; if you're an archer, don't get Avid Collector to buy greater disrupting rune expecting to put it on a longbow; if you're not proficient in Martial Weapons, don't get Avid Collector to buy a katana, katar, kukri, or spiked chain.

The boon is plenty useful.

Sovereign Court 3/5 *

Blake's Tiger wrote:
Avid Collector wrote:


The boon doesn't prevent you from using what you obtained the boon to gain Access to. There's plenty of things that don't even require a specific proficiency to use (look at all those aeon stones for just one example).

However, if you're not proficient in Light Armor, don't get Avid Collector to buy elven chain; if you're an archer, don't get Avid Collector to buy greater disrupting rune expecting to put it on a longbow; if you're not proficient in Martial Weapons, don't get Avid Collector to buy a katana, katar, kukri, or spiked chain.

The boon is plenty useful.

From what I could see on that boon it was granting access to things one could already buy when they could afford it, and if you want it for one of the weapons or armor listed then the player was SOL. Yes, it grants Access, but Access will not let you use it. So you just spent 20 points for nothing.

Grand Archive 4/5 ***

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Andrew the Warwitch wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:


The boon doesn't prevent you from using what you obtained the boon to gain Access to. There's plenty of things that don't even require a specific proficiency to use (look at all those aeon stones for just one example).

However, if you're not proficient in Light Armor, don't get Avid Collector to buy elven chain; if you're an archer, don't get Avid Collector to buy greater disrupting rune expecting to put it on a longbow; if you're not proficient in Martial Weapons, don't get Avid Collector to buy a katana, katar, kukri, or spiked chain.

The boon is plenty useful.

From what I could see on that boon it was granting access to things one could already buy when they could afford it, and if you want it for one of the weapons or armor listed then the player was SOL. Yes, it grants Access, but Access will not let you use it. So you just spent 20 points for nothing.

No, it is the *other way around*

It grants you access to thing you *can't* buy. All the items on that sheet are uncommon, and require that boon or a similar boon to buy.

2/5 5/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

First, those magic items can't be bought without access, they're Uncommon. You can't just up and buy a Cape of the Mountebank.

Second, no, if you're a rogue who buys it to gain Access to the Martial weapon, kukri, and have no intention of taking the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat or worry that your strikes will fall too far behind if you're stuck at Trained and don't want to spend the feats to make it advance, then you are out of luck. But a Fighter, Ranger, Champion, Swashbuckler, or anyone with Martial Weapon Proficiency by any means can make perfect use of those weapons.

Hopefully, you weren't confused by other threads and believed you needed special proficiency for those individual weapons. Only Advanced weapons break down proficiency individually when gained by feats.

1/5 *

I wanted to nudge this a little and see if the curated listings that Michael alluded to above were still in process. I kind of assume that they might have fallen off when he left the OP team, but I figured that it might not hurt too much to ask.

::pre-emptively ducking::

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