Elemental Alchemical Reagents and "Material component or Focus" Wording?


Rules Questions


The Alchemical Reagents introduced in Plane-Hopper's Handbook all have the same wording in their description, "When you use a [item's name] as a material component or focus for a spell". This leaves me to ask... Does that mean the player gets to chose whether they use it as a Material Component or a Focus? If so, why don't they just 100% of the time use it as a Focus instead?

For clarity, when using a reagent for spell casting the item is either used as a Material Cost or as a Focus. If the item is a Material Components, than it is consumed to cast the spell. However, if the item is a Focus, it does not get consumed. The only downside is that you can't use Foci and Material Components on the same spell...

So my question is - if these can be used both as a Material Component or a Focus, why would anyone use it as anything BUT a Focus?

For example; The user spends 350gp to purchase the Fire Fragment, which not only increases the Caster Level by +1 for Damage, but also treats it as a Flaring Metamagic Spell without increasing the Spell's Level.

Using the Fire Fragment as a Focus means you can use it indefinitely.

Using the Fire Fragment as a Material Cost means you can only use it for 1 spell.

I'm writing an Alchemical Guide, so I want to make sure my RAW/RAI is accurate


RAW, the items out of Plane-Hopper's Handbook can be used as focus. We can conclude this because PFS issued a "campaign clarification" that those items are material components, not focus - which suggests what RAI is on this point.

I think that to illustrate why it should be a material component... consider the metamagic rods of flaring spell, or a hypothetical metamagic gem of flaring.

The greater rod costs 24500 (as is typical for +1 metamagics) and can be used thrice per day on spells of any level.
The gem would cost 1000 (as is typical for +1 metamagics) and can be used literally once on a spell of any level before it disintegrates itself.
The fire crystal costs 350 and, if interpreted as a focus, can be used infinitely on spells of any level... AND also boosts damage by +1 caster level unless capped. However, unlike the other items, it can't be used on electric or light spells, only fire.

For the sake of "expect table variance," I'd advise the guide-writer to assume that those are material components, and note that the GM may allow them to be foci, as the items' description appears to allow. (:


Some of them like the fire fragment may have been RAI to be material components, others like the cooperation crystals are very much RAI to be focuses.

If a GM rules them to be only able to be used as a material component, I'd expect a price reduction to accompany that, because the majority of them are far too expensive otherwise.


Hm... I would have to agree with what Willuwontu said, they are extremely expensive for what they do. Fire Crystals seems nice, but Dazzle is only a -1 to Attack and Sight-based Perception - most people would take it for the +1 Caster Level. Greater Metamagic Rods and Gems probably wouldn't be used to put Dazzling on a Spell, lol.

And when you look at the other ones - they're even worse with even more restrictions. I'll probably put the Fire Fragment of 2-star, as it's effectively 1/3rh the cost of a Metamagic Gems, but the others are definitely 1 star with them being so restrictive and expensive.

If only these items could be crafted. Lol

Liberty's Edge

Planar power components are a variant of Alchemical power components written in a sloppy way.
They lack the text:
"Spells followed by an (M) expend the alchemical item as a material component; those followed by an (F) use the item as a focus and do not expend it. In both cases, the alchemical item does not have its normal effect and does not affect any other parameters of the spell."
and the list of spells in which they can be used as an M component or as an F component.

The text of the Planar components says:

Quote:
Planar power components are fragments of pure planar essence. When used as a material component or focus for a spell, a planar power component infuses the spell with planar energy, enhancing the spell’s effects. You cannot use a planar component as both a focus and a material component at the same time.

but that text lacks any permission to use the components with existing spells. It is implied but never given.

The Alchemical components have a set of hard rules on how they work and on what spells they work. Rules that allow them to work with existing spells. Planar power components lack that set of rules and the general spell rules don't allow the swapping of the M and F components with different components, nor adding components at a whim.

So I would take a hard stance: they can be used as F or M components only for specially researched spells that always use them, not with generic spells.

RAW you lack a list of spells with which they work and permission for them to be used as components with all spells, so any use is RAI.

Liberty's Edge

Just to add something to the rant above, if there is a blank permission to use the Planar power component with every spell (withing the limits what are written in the power component descriptions) we can use them in silly ways, as an example he "distillation of the spirit of cooperation characteristic of the chaotic good plane of Elysium" that is the cooperation crystal can be used to raise the caster level of Infernal healing.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Elemental Alchemical Reagents and "Material component or Focus" Wording? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.