Can Jump jets be used underwater?

[OtrovaGomas]

I think you can as they work in space, the argument i seen is that there are hydrojets, but the hydrojets last for 10 hours and the jump jets last for only 10 uses. Personally I let my players use them but I honestly though this was correct, but I found that other GM do not let this work

[Dracomicron]

Fly speed is for air travel. It doesn't work under water.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I agree with Dracomicron. They do not work.

Jump jets give a fly speed.

Flying underwater is known as swimming. That's why we have hydrojets.

I suspect the reasoning behind the power costs is that it takes much more energy to become airborne than it does to propel oneself through the water.

[BigNorseWolf]

nope

[Claxon]

No, but jet packs honestly kind of suck anyways.

Flying requires that you always spend some kind of action while in the air, even hovering requires as a move or swift action (and even swift actions prevent you from taking full actions in Starfinder).

Quote:

Hover

Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall. If you have clumsy maneuverability, you cannot hover at all. If you have perfect maneuverability, you can hover automatically without attempting a check, though you can hover as a swift action instead of a move action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check (there is no penalty for failure).

Quote:

Full Actions

Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 248
A full action requires your entire turn to complete. If you take a full action, you can’t take your usual standard, move, and swift actions. The following actions are full actions.

This is why people typically recommend Mk 2 Force Soles instead.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Claxon wrote:

This is why people typically recommend Mk 2 Force Soles instead.

This has probably been asked and answered before, but here goes.

Upon reading force soles it appears me that you would need to be barefoot in order to use these as the force comes out of the bottom of your feet.

If your wearing armor the force coming out of the bottom of your feet would be blocked by the soles in the foot part of the armor.

I could not find anything stating how augmentations interact with armor / clothing.

Seems to me to be better as an armor upgrade.

[Pantshandshake]

Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Claxon wrote:

This is why people typically recommend Mk 2 Force Soles instead.

This has probably been asked and answered before, but here goes.

Upon reading force soles it appears me that you would need to be barefoot in order to use these as the force comes out of the bottom of your feet.

If your wearing armor the force coming out of the bottom of your feet would be blocked by the soles in the foot part of the armor.

I could not find anything stating how augmentations interact with armor / clothing.

Seems to me to be better as an armor upgrade.

This is a very strange way to read how Force Soles work, and I really doubt this interpretation would be at all common.

[Garretmander]

I see no reason whatsoever for you to need to be barefoot for them to work. Sure, the bottom of your boots are just sort of hanging there, and your scholl's inserts aren't helping you out, but you're still standing on a plane of force that happens to be inside your shoe.

And that is assuming it isn't a somewhat 'smart' augment that can project the force sole an inch or two further down when it detects footwear.

[BigNorseWolf]

Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Claxon wrote:

This is why people typically recommend Mk 2 Force Soles instead.

This has probably been asked and answered before, but here goes.

Upon reading force soles it appears me that you would need to be barefoot in order to use these as the force comes out of the bottom of your feet.

If your wearing armor the force coming out of the bottom of your feet would be blocked by the soles in the foot part of the armor.

I could not find anything stating how augmentations interact with armor / clothing.

Seems to me to be better as an armor upgrade.

The augmentations that require you to modify your armor somehow (or just get naked) in order to be used (like the foot slats/ spiderman feet) specify as much.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Pantshandshake wrote:

This is a very strange way to read how Force Soles work, and I really doubt this interpretation would be at all common.

Why? It states nodes in your feet project tiny fields of force energy when you intentionally stop onto thin air (interesting that they won't work if you are forced into thin air).

Are you saying nothing can block these tiny fields of force?

So even if we encase someone's feet in 5 feet (measuring from the bottom of the foot down)of solid steel off they go into thin air (assume they are lightly encumbered).

What if we apply wax to the bottom of the feet and clog all the nodes?

The nodes create some sort of downward push / thrust.

If you block that force / thrust they should not work.

If you block the thrust from a jet pack it will not work.

Are you suggesting that they only way to stop force soles from working is chop off the feet?

It is not as uncommon as you think. My campaign has 30 PCs and only 1 has force soles and she goes with barefoot most of the time.

No one in our game thought they worked with shoes/boots on.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Garretmander wrote:

I see no reason whatsoever for you to need to be barefoot for them to work. Sure, the bottom of your boots are just sort of hanging there, and your scholl's inserts aren't helping you out, but you're still standing on a plane of force that happens to be inside your shoe.

And that is assuming it isn't a somewhat 'smart' augment that can project the force sole an inch or two further down when it detects footwear.

Interesting statement. So you would be floating on the force inside the shoe.

Ok that makes some sense.

[Hawk Kriegsman]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The augmentations that require you to modify your armor somehow (or just get naked) in order to be used (like the foot slats/ spiderman feet) specify as much.

Thanks for the point of reference.

[Pantshandshake]

Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Why? It states nodes in your feet project tiny fields of force energy when you intentionally stop onto thin air (interesting that they won't work if you are forced into thin air).

You'll forgive me for trimming the quote somewhat, there's a lot there.

First, I'll start with this: Nowhere in the item's description does it say anything about bare feet, boots not allowed, etc. You're adding that in for... realism or verisimilitude, I would suppose. In any case, the item tells us how it works and what sort of shortcomings or additional rules it has. Anything else isn't rules, its house rule territory. Which is fine, you do you and all, but unless this item gets FAQ'd with "sorry, yes, we meant bare feet only" from Paizo, bare feet is not a requirement.

Second: What BNW said. There are already items that contain language stating what kind of special use restrictions exist. While this is not a guarantee by any means, especially working with Starfinder rules, it's a pretty decent piece of evidence.

Third: The item works in zero gravity. As in, you can walk up a staircase of force planes in zero g. So this item most definitely does not produce opposing force or thrust to work. Unless they calculate exactly the amount for force produced by your step, every time you step, without fail, at the exact second you take your 'step.' And if they're smart enough for that, then being able to tell where the bottom of your shoe is should be comparably easy.

I'll leave your stilts and wax questions alone. Regardless of how I feel about those questions, those are GM problems to figure out.

Lastly, these items are a fusion of literal magic and super-future-technology. Being told "Here's what they do and they just work" is a pretty OK explanation for them.

[Claxon]

Starfinder has a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense if you look at it too hard, or rather requires a lot of idea on how it adapts to work.

But the consistent thing in the game is that unless a creature says its physiology doesn't work, then it's assumed to work just fine (example the sentient gas cloud race that can use weapons just fine without fingers or arms). Further items that require special adaptions to function specify in their description that they do so, such as Clinging Hands.

Quote:

The cirumstance bonus granted by the clinging hands biotech augmentation does not stack with weapons that have the disarm or grapple weapon special property Clinging Hands

Source Starfinder Armory pg. 86
Item Level 3; Price 1,350; System All hands
Your hands are covered with tiny fibers like those on a gecko’s toes. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your KAC against disarm combat maneuvers and to attacks to perform disarm and grapple combat maneuvers. You can ignore any increase to the DCs of Athletics checks to climb due to slipperiness, iciness, or heavy gravity. You can’t benefit from clinging hands if you are wearing armor or gloves that have not been either tailored or adjusted for you.

So, since force soles don't mention it we assume it doesn't require anything special to work. So how does it work? That's up to you and your imagination.

Maybe the force plane generate is right at your foot and your boot hangs a couple millimetres below your foot. Maybe the force is projected as a 1" column below your foot that then expands out to create a plane".

It doesn't really matter, as the key part is basically that you can walk through air and space, but are limited to a 45° for inclines.

[Metaphysician]

Also, at worst this would mean "your armor needs to be tailored to its use", which is cheap, easy, and ubiquitous.