How would you rule on this? (Bad magic item concept)


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Dumb magic item interaction question.

Gloves of Improvised Might (Adventurer's Armory 2) are essentially Amulet of Mighty Fists for Improvised Weapons.

They max out at +5 effective enchantment, and can have Melee weapon enchantments put on them.

What if I put Transformative on them?

I pickup a Chair as a two-handed Improvised Weapon.
I use the Transformative power of the GoIM to turn it into a Great Sword.

Is it now a normal weapon since it's a Great Sword?

If it is a normal weapon, do the GoIM (which only work on improvised weapons) still work on it?

Is this just a really stupid idea?

What's your thought?


Let's look at transformative.

Spoiler:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons. A transformative weapon alters its shape at its wielder’s command, becoming any other melee weapon of the same general shape and handedness; the weapon’s categorization as simple, martial, or exotic is irrelevant. For example, a Medium transformative longsword can take the shape of any other Medium one-handed melee weapon, such as a scimitar, flail, or trident, but not a Medium light or two-handed melee weapon (such as a Medium short sword or a Medium greatsword). It can even take the shape of comparable weapons of different size categories. For example, a Small greatsword is a two-handed slashing weapon for a Small character, but is a one-handed slashing weapon for a Medium character, which is very similar to a Medium longsword; a Small transformative greatsword can thus become an actual Medium longsword, usable by a Medium creature without the –2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size. The weapon retains all of its abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities, except those prohibited by its current shape. For example, a keen transformative weapon functions normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon, but cannot use the keen special ability when in the shape of a bludgeoning weapon. When unattended, the weapon reverts to its true shape.

And now at the GoIM:

Spoiler:
These rough leather gloves grant an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with improvised weapons. Alternatively, the gloves can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to melee or thrown weapons (see pages 136– 137 of Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Equipment for a list of abilities). Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. Gloves of improvised might cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. Unlike an amulet of mighty fists, gloves of improvised might must have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

Normal weapons are unaffected by gloves of improvised might except when used as an improvised weapon in a way specifically permitted by the weapon description, such as using an arrow or bolt as a melee weapon (or if the user has an ability that allows the use of normal weapons as improvised weapons). The wearer still takes a –4 nonproficiency penalty on attack rolls with improvised weapons, as normal, unless he has the Catch Off-Guard feat or a similar ability.

So how should they interact?

1. You pick up a Medium two-handed table leg.
2. The GoIM changes it into a +2 transformative table leg. Note that transformative is being granted by the GoIM.
3. Your player changes it into a Greatsword. What follows is important.

4. Greatswords don't have any explicit improvised uses. (GoIM doesn't allow for table rulings such as gripping it by the blade and using the cross-guard as a pick; it must, as with doing the Legolas arrow stab trick, be part of the item's description.)
5. As such, unless the character somehow has an ability to treat normal weapons as improvised, the greatsword can't count as improvised.

6. So once the table leg tries to become a greatsword, the magic stops working on it, thus suppressing the greatsword form; it reverts to being a table leg (just as it would if the weapon were disarmed while a greatsword,) whereupon it'd regain +2 transformative as a table leg.

The command (a standard action) is still expended in this case.

Now if the weapon COULD be used improvised, I'd allow it to retain that form until the player tried to use in a manner other than its improvised option(s).


Sandslice wrote:
Now if the weapon COULD be used improvised, I'd allow it to retain that form until the player tried to use in a manner other than its improvised option(s).

Even if the greatsword did count as an improvised weapon it probably wouldn't be useful.

A monk of the empty hand for example treats all weapons as improvised. Unfortunately, if you turned the table leg into a greatsword it would still have the stats of a quarterstaff. As opposed to when it was a table leg and had the stats of... a quarterstaff.

As a DM I would probably allow transformative to change the tableleg into some other non-weapon. The primary benefit being it would let you switch the damage type between bludgeoning, slashing or piercing. It's not how it works via the RAW but as pointed out by Sandslice, by the RAW the transformation would make the item cease to be a valid target for the transformation ability.

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