I am currently running the Extinction Curse AP for my group. Finally converted them from 5e to Pf2 and so far they enjoy it a lot.
My question is regarding loot in adventure paths. Now an adventure path gives out loot and obviously one can change what is handed out but my question is concerning potency and striking runes.
The first book ends with a big boss fight (severe encounter) at level 4 after which the party reaches level 5. Now the first striking weapon the AP gives out is after this fight. Now my question is if you guys think handing out striking weapons before this fight would make it too easy. From what i understand normally striking weapons are found from level 4 onward. So giving out the first one at the start of level 5 seems a bit late.
My players are mostly pretty casual so i dont think they mind if the fight isnt super dangerous but i also dont want them to stomp it. They are also pretty martial heavy (ranger, dex champion, barbarian, bomber alchemist). So in addition to the question of when to give out striking runes there is also the question on how many.
I know there is an expected loot chart in the crb (i find that chart a bit confusing though) but my question would be if the AP follows it or if it assumes the players use money to buy striking runes or sth.
Basically what ir boils down to is if a severe encounter for level 5 (containing a lvl 5, lvl 2 and lvl 1 creatures) requires striking runes or if it becomes too easy with striking runes.
I also made a reddit post for this and got rather mixed answers ranging from "you dont need striking runes and if you give them out earlier the weapon the boss drops will be less exciting" to "striking runes are expected way earlier and should be given out at in chapter 3" https://de.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/hnkenv/help_with_expected_loo t_in_an_ap_extinction_curse/
I encourage you to study the APs themselves.
You will find a fairly consistent pattern where group's find one (1) striking rune/weapon "ahead" of schedule, a second (total 2) "at" schedule, and enough for everybody (total 4 or 5 or even more) "behind" schedule.
Schedule meaning the item's level.
My advice? Stop worrying, and stick to this pattern until you feel comfortable games mastering Pathfinder 2.
Cheers,
Zapp
Personally, I'm running a converted Dragon's Heist and the players are level 4 without striking runes. They're dealing with enemies quite quickly.
I think it's dependent on party make-up, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Look to future battles and enemy HP to figure out of battles will start to drag without them.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Look up the automatic progression variant from GMG, it tells you pretty much at which levels should +1s and strikings appear.
Gorbacz wrote: Look up the automatic progression variant from GMG, it tells you pretty much at which levels should +1s and strikings appear. No need to involve the GMG - just look at an item's level to find that out! :-)
Grivenger wrote: Personally, I'm running a converted Dragon's Heist and the players are level 4 without striking runes. They're dealing with enemies quite quickly.
I think it's dependent on party make-up, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Look to future battles and enemy HP to figure out of battles will start to drag without them.
If i compare it to AoA it seems they do get it later in Extinction Curse. There the Players get it shortly before hitting level 4 while in extinction curse they get it at the point of hitting level 5 (since you level up at the end of book 1 and the first striking rune is at the final boss.
AoA seems pretty on scedule on the timing of a striking rune while EC seems a bit behind.
Zapp wrote: Gorbacz wrote: Look up the automatic progression variant from GMG, it tells you pretty much at which levels should +1s and strikings appear. No need to involve the GMG - just look at an item's level to find that out! :-) Which would be at level 4, so the start of lvl 5 seemed late to me, considering big fights. Would you add one to the AP.
The AoA pattern seems like the one you mention and the boss there seems easier than in EC (i also run AoA for my other group that has not yet fully converted as a sidegame). Maybe ill add a striking rune at that timing.
It's not an exact science. Please don't freak out just because a certain item is one level early or late. That's really not early or late - that's just the expected variance.
And it isn't at the start of level 5. It's at the end of level 4, which means it's level 4 :)
PS. My players haven't figured out yet that instead of spending all their hard-earned money to desperately purchase striking runes as soon as they can afford them, they can buy all other sorts of stuff, since they will be awash in them runes if they just hold off to the next level or the level after that :)
So you all played it without giving out a striking rune before that boss and it was fine? Or just theory talk.
Thoug tbh, i probably have to change up loot anyways since my party has no caster and maybe ill just switch out the animal staff in gozrehs temple with something else that the party can use more since im not a fan of "hey here is cool loot none of yall can use"
Also im not "freaking out", i just havent wrapped my head around how runes factor into difficulty.
Though looking at the fight again i now see that the boss is likely to send his guards down anyways.
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Candlejake wrote: So you all played it without giving out a striking rune before that boss and it was fine? Or just theory talk. Yep, that boss didn't come near the top of "most difficult fights" for us (so far, they just started the level 8 chapter).
Individually the pollen trap and the corrupted retainers of chapter 3 were the most dangerous. In both cases, you can argue Paizo did not intend that degree of difficulty: the pollen trap might only have four attacks in total, and the corrupted retainers have been shown to easily meet the criteria of a level 3 creatures, yet they appear as level 2 creatures in the material.
Other than that, our group found chapter 6 to be very very hard. No individual fight stands out, but they needed a large number of rests to complete that level. A hard slog indeed.
You could hand out striking runes/weapons early if you suspect your players will struggle.
On the other hand, this tilts the balance (even further) in the favor or the martials at the expense of the casters, so an equally good if not better suggestion is to simply tone down the difficulty so that striking weapons aren't as necessary. That way, you could even *delay* the arrival of striking runes/weapons, since the caster-martial balance certainly doesn't benefit from them.
Good luck with your campaign.
Zapp wrote: Candlejake wrote: So you all played it without giving out a striking rune before that boss and it was fine? Or just theory talk. Yep, that boss didn't come near the top of "most difficult fights" for us (so far, they just started the level 8 chapter).
Individually the pollen trap and the corrupted retainers of chapter 3 were the most dangerous. In both cases, you can argue Paizo did not intend that degree of difficulty: the pollen trap might only have four attacks in total, and the corrupted retainers have been shown to easily meet the criteria of a level 3 creatures, yet they appear as level 2 creatures in the material.
Other than that, our group found chapter 6 to be very very hard. No individual fight stands out, but they needed a large number of rests to complete that level. A hard slog indeed.
You could hand out striking runes/weapons early if you suspect your players will struggle.
On the other hand, this tilts the balance (even further) in the favor or the martials at the expense of the casters, so an equally good if not better suggestion is to simply tone down the difficulty so that striking weapons aren't as necessary. That way, you could even *delay* the arrival of striking runes/weapons, since the caster-martial balance certainly doesn't benefit from them.
Good luck with your campaign.
Interesting about the retainers. Would givin them the weak template bring them more in line with level 2 creatures?
I dont worry TOO much about the caster, martial balance in my group since as said they are champion, alchemist, rogue and barbarian. Thats the main reason i worried about striking runes, because if they had a caster and acces to magic weapon it wouldnt be as big of a deal.
And i hope nobody dies and has to change characters haha.
Yeah ill see how they handle things. They are pretty casual players so i also wanted to not overwhelm them with fights that are too difficult.
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