Help with a 'Shopping list"


Advice


So, a caveat to start: Not looking for advice on the build, or "Why did you take x y or Z?" or the like.

That being said. Have a fifth level winter witch about to go into the appropriate prestige class.
Halfling.

Hexes of Evil eye, Frostfoot, slumber.

Due to feats and traits a very good will save, especially against Hexes, curses or fey magic. Also due to traits has a pretty decent intimidate(+13) keyed off of intelligence and usable against larger humanoids(Creepy doll).

Due to 'build' unlikely to engage in any melee.

Have already taken favored prestige class for WInter witch in anticipation of getting to Prestigious caster at the next feat after that, so in two levels will have the full caster level and spells. Just because, the Favored prestige class skill bonus will apply to Intimidate again, so that will jump to 16. My buffed up intimidate is an RP preference thingy. Has a sage familiar and multiple buffed up knowledges herself.

She currently has an icicle wand, and there is a team collection of potions and scrolls that we dole out as needed.

So right now, she is likely to have something around 6,000 or slightly over gold to spend on items when the next opportunity arises(At least. Possible there could be more depending on what comes up. Just estimating) As a note, I highly suspect another party member is taking up crafting shortly

So possible shopping list:

There is the cackling hag's blouse, which is nice but would blow my entire wad to acquire. Could do a Intelligence headband which would only take four thou of my wad.

There are the usual cloaks of resistance, I have fair saves already but more is always good.

Just looking perhaps for ideas for the shopping list.


You could also buy some magic items for you familiar to protect him remember that if he dies you can't prepare spell


The easiest way to protect your familiar is to make a backup copy of it via Stone Familiar. Of course it would take all of your gold to get one, unless you can wait until your fellow party member can craft it for you.


A Maiden's Helm grants a +5 Competence bonus to Intimidate and Command 3/day (DC not given in the item). That might be handy for that aspect of your character. It's 3500 GP leaving you some GP left over for a Cloak of Resistance (buff that Fort save).

There are lots of protections for Familiars. Having the spell Familiar Pocket or buying an extra dimensional space for them to duck into wouldn't be a bad thing.

I'm guessing most of your combat is either ranged Cold spells or using your hexes. Any item that gives you more of those spells or more utility with your hexes is useful then. Obviously you already mentioned the blouse; another would be a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard for 2500 to give a couple more level 1 utility spells or a Pearl of Power to give you back a spell. Pearl for level 1 is 1000 GP; a level 2 is 4k GP.


https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/merge-with-familiar/

Is a spell I’m looking at.


Arssanguinus wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/merge-with-familiar/

Is a spell I’m looking at.

Are you going to sacrifice and spell slot when you can get items that do the same?


Zepheri wrote:
Arssanguinus wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/merge-with-familiar/

Is a spell I’m looking at.

Are you going to sacrifice and spell slot when you can get items that do the same?

Depends on the costs.


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Witches use their casting stat all the time. A headband of +int is the best thing you can get. For the remaining couple of thousand a cloak of resistance and some elixirs of the thundering voice could be reliably useful.


Witches in general tend to have a difficult time with undead, constructs, and aberrations. A way to shore up this weakness should be worth the gp.


Winter witches are something of an exception Zotpox. They tend to be wannabe blasters who can just do damage.


So focus more on critters with cold resistance or immunity. Thanks


avr wrote:
Winter witches are something of an exception Zotpox. They tend to be wannabe blasters who can just do damage.

In no way am I prevented from debuff or other spells or hexes, and even many cold magic spells have saving throws.


Or for the truly discerning witch.

Basic Homunculus 1,050 gp

Improved Construction

+1 HD 2,000 gp

Voice 500 gp

Resistance (as per spell +1 to all saves) 500 gp

Poison DC enhance (pernicious poison spell) (witch hex [drugged] to enhance)provided by witch

Barf tangle foot bag via witch spell: adhesive spittle x 30 potion CL 1 3 x per day 1,500 gp (this is poisoned as well)

Total 5,550 gp


Get some Liquid Ice (Alchemical Power Component) at 40gp. It can buff your cold spells.

Buying scrolls can increase your spell list.

Buying Pearls of Power can gain you spell slots.

Here are some cheap magic items to check out: Eyes of the Eagle, Handy Haversack, Rod of Reach (Lesser), Boots of the Cat, Four Leaf Clover, Hat of Disguise, Clockwork Songbird
Also: Ring of Austere Majesty [As long as one or more creatures can see it, the ring grants its wearer a +2 circumstance bonus on Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to influence those creatures.]
Also: Ioun Stone (Dusty Rose Prism (cracked)) [+1 comp initiative checks]
Also: Ioun Stone (Magenta Prism (cracked)) [+2 competence bonus on checks with any one skill you choose, can be changed once per day]
Also: Ioun Stone (Pale Green Prism (cracked)) [+1 comp attack or saves]

/cevah


I like ioun stones but at this level budget their price is a tad on the high end. You usually start picking those up as fillers at a bit higher level.


I was really surprised to find a few were really affordable. The flawed and cracked versions can be quite useful, with 2/3 of them being under 2,000 gp.

Oh, I just remembered the homonclous above has a voice so you can cackle through it.


While the Homunculus can produce a cackle, it has no mechanical effect. The witch's cackle is not something she can do through another creature.

/cevah


The homonclous is her. Literally made from a pound of her flesh and sum clay, and now that it has a voice it can cackle for you or with you allowing you to cackle at a distance.
A homonclous is a living part of you not bonded to you like a familiar or construct.


While the Homunculus gains life from the blood, it is not the person. Same as a child gains life but is not the same as the person.

Also, then the witch dies, the Homunculus does not die automatically. While likely, it usually goes insane, but not always.

Nor can you use a Homunculus to resurrect the witch.

/cevah


Negatory ghost rider.

The Homunculus is the person.

I'd say 1 in 10,000 does not die when its master dose and that one thinks that it in fact is it's master (insane).

It is not recombinant DNA from two separate beings makeing a third separate beings aka a child. It is formed from a pound of your flesh and clay, its life is your life thus you takeing damage when it dies.

Yes you can use the Homunculus to resurrect the witch if it lives and you can catch it.


Cevah wrote:

While the Homunculus gains life from the blood, it is not the person. Same as a child gains life but is not the same as the person.

Also, then the witch dies, the Homunculus does not die automatically. While likely, it usually goes insane, but not always.

Nor can you use a Homunculus to resurrect the witch.

/cevah

Additionally, a homunculus only becomes a familiar if you take the feat improved familiar and pick the homunculus as your familiar. Anyone that wants one can get one. You don't even have to be a caster. You can actually have one created for you by someone else with the appropriate skills.

Homunculus: Construction wrote:
The person whose blood is used to form a homunculus’s body becomes its master; it is possible for one person to give blood for the creation, another to sculpt the base material, and another to magically animate it as a minion for the one who provided the blood.


Correct any one can become a master at the cost of one's flesh and maybe a sliver of one's soul.

It takes a feat or class ability to bond a creature as a familiar.

The two have nothing to do with eachother.

The one is you and the other is a bond with an external being.


Zotpox wrote:

Correct any one can become a master at the cost of one's flesh and maybe a sliver of one's soul.

It takes a feat or class ability to bond a creature as a familiar.

The two have nothing to do with eachother.

The one is you and the other is a bond with an external being.

And yet the homunculus has no innate ability to share spells or abilities. It might be born of your flesh but it isn't you.


And yet when a familiar dies it's an 8 hour ritual 1 week later to replace it and not 2d10 damage. A familiar only gets an empathic link and must be controlled/cajoled in sum way where as a homunculus has a Telepathic link and requires no control.

I honestly believe that the homunculus should have the innate ability to share spells or abilities. Possibly that will work as part of an advanced template for the homunculus.


Zotpox wrote:

And yet when a familiar dies it's an 8 hour ritual 1 week later to replace it and not 2d10 damage. A familiar only gets an empathic link and must be controlled/cajoled in sum way where as a homunculus has a Telepathic link and requires no control.

I don't follow. What does that have to do with anything. PCs with the feat bonded mind can form a telepathic link with each other and they are still separate creatures.


And yet a familiar cant. As you stated Bonded Mind is a feat not something inherent to a beings nature.

Bonded Mind is two minds two bodies.

The Homunculus Telepathic link is two bodies one mind.


Sorry Arssanguinus!
I did not mean for this to become the define a Homunculus thread!


The GM side of me leans towards “no, homunculus cant do ‘that’ unless it’s a familiar and a familiar could do that.


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Zotpox wrote:

And yet a familiar cant. As you stated Bonded Mind is a feat not something inherent to a beings nature.

Bonded Mind is two minds two bodies.

The Homunculus Telepathic link is two bodies one mind.

I don't see where that is stated. You seem to be making up rules based on what you feel a homunculus should be.


Two bodies one mind = Telepathic Link (Su)
A homunculus cannot speak, but the process of creating one links it telepathically with its creator. A homunculus knows what its master knows and can convey to him or her everything it sees and hears, out to a distance of 1,500 feet.

One body no mind = If the creature’s master is slain, the homunculus goes insane—it loses its Intelligence score, all feats, and all skill ranks, and generally claims the immediate surroundings as its domain, mindlessly attacking any who intrude upon its lair.

It's pretty clear.


See that's just it a familiar cant do that and a homunculus can.

I think that it's one of the reasons that homunculi could not speak before pathfinder, was to prevent verbal activation of items.

Besides you can make a homunculus a familiar. You can have multiple familiars as well.


Zotpox wrote:

Two bodies one mind = Telepathic Link (Su)

A homunculus cannot speak, but the process of creating one links it telepathically with its creator. A homunculus knows what its master knows and can convey to him or her everything it sees and hears, out to a distance of 1,500 feet.

A telepathic link does not unify the minds. They do not think the same because they are distinct creatures. They know the same info like a familiar shares skill ranks. That does not make the familiar the caster.

You are making stuff up. I have been playing from the TSR days, and have never seen this interpretation before.

You believe it? Then show me the rules that support your belief.

It is clear that they do not have this ability you claim.

/cevah


Telepathy, Telepathic Bond, and Telepathic Link each function differently.

Correct a telepathic link does not unify two minds instead the process of creating a homunculus links it telepathically with its creator thus one mind controlling two bodies.

Telepathy: You can mentally communicate with any other creature within 100 feet that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as speaking and listening to multiple people simultaneously.

Telepathic Bond: You forge a telepathic bond among yourself and a number of willing creatures, each of which must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. Each creature included in the link is linked to all the others. The creatures can communicate telepathically through the bond regardless of language. No special power or influence is established as a result of the bond. Once the bond is formed, it works over any distance (although not from one plane to another).

Telepathic Link (Su) copied from the homunculus entry: A homunculus cannot speak, but the process of creating one links it telepathically with its creator. A homunculus knows what its master knows and can convey to him or her everything it sees and hears, out to a distance of 1,500 feet.

Copied from the homunculus entry: If the creature’s master is slain, the homunculus goes insane—it (loses its Intelligence score), all feats, and all skill ranks, and generally claims the immediate surroundings as its domain, mindlessly attacking any who intrude upon its lair.

That's right it loses its Intelligence score when it's master dies. A body with no mind.

I have been playing from the TSR days as well and I learn something new every day.


A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic.

A homunculus is a miniature servant created by a spellcaster from his own blood. They are extensions of their creators.

The use of a single Audible Hex through an extension of your witch which has been given a voice, is not unreasonable. Nor is the use of command word triggered items.


Zotpox wrote:

A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic.

A homunculus is a miniature servant created by a spellcaster from his own blood. They are extensions of their creators.

The use of a single Audible Hex through an extension of your witch which has been given a voice, is not unreasonable. Nor is the use of command word triggered items.

Is it, however, actually supported by the rules whether you happen you believe it ‘reasonable’ or not? Signs say ‘not’.


Ok this should take care of the rulez for command words.

Voice: By adding dew of lunary and platinum to the homunculus, a crafter can grant it the ability to speak in a voice that sounds eerily like a diminutive version of its master’s. Price: +500 gp.

Command Word: If the activation is on command or if no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

Admittedly my search foo needs work so the closeist thing I have found to homunculi using class features is

The Homunculist's ability to at 4th level, to grant his familiar 1 evolution point worth of eidolon evolutions for every 4 alchemist levels he possesses, though he can’t select any evolutions that require a particular base form. Each time the homunculist gains a level, he can change his familiar’s evolutions. These evolutions stack with those from the Evolved Familiar feat.

Admittedly most of my searches center around "the abilities of" or "definition of" (extensions of their creators) and so far I have not had much luck.

I am thinking of refocusing my search. possibly on a creatures basic nature.


Not one of those allows the homunculus to deliver a hex in substitution to the witch.

A magic item is not a class feature, so that is somewhat meaningless.

Granting evolutions is just that: granting evolutions. It’s a specific class ability with the specific effect of granting specific things to a specific creature, and as such as no further implications that exactly what it says it does.

And just speaking in a similar voice could be accomplished by ventriloquism. It still doesn’t give them the ability to use class features which don’t specifically say they can be used that way.


Whell unicorn sparklefarts Im obvously bad, wrong, unfun.

Players obviously never use class features which don’t specifically say they can be used that way in new and unique ways, ever.

The ability to speak period should allow the master to use a verbal based class ability through his/her extension, which until pathfinder was never an option and thus no rules.

My most humblest of apologies

And now I am curious if I can use ventriloquism to change the origin point of a cast spell.

I bid you all a good day and good luck!


Zotpox wrote:
Telepathic Link (Su) copied from the homunculus entry: A homunculus cannot speak, but the process of creating one links it telepathically with its creator. A homunculus knows what its master knows and can convey to him or her everything it sees and hears, out to a distance of 1,500 feet.

The fact that it can convey information clearly shows it has an independent mind that can choose to convey or not convey. This is not true if it is part of yourself as a single mind.

Zotpox wrote:
Whell unicorn sparklefarts Im obvously bad, wrong, unfun.

Nope. Just not supported by rules. If your houserules make it the same as the creature providing the blood, then you can have fun that way. Just don't expect those who don't play with those houserules to expect this.

/cevah


Yup. Have all the fun you want. It’s just not based on the rules set. Acting indignant is disingenuous.


Zotpox wrote:
Whell unicorn sparklefarts Im obvously bad, wrong, unfun.

In a word yeah. It is a rules heavy game. If you want to make up new stuff that is more a improv group, not PF1. It's like you showed up to a rugby game with a baseball bat.

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