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Paizo, folks, ya gotta give us some indication that things are getting better. The delays are incredibly bad and getting worse, not better. The [lack of] progress with customer concerns is terrible. Example, on 6/24 you had emails going back to May 15th. That's nearly six weeks behind. After another 24 hours, the backlog was still on the 15th. Then on June 26, it was "caught up" to the 18th, but that doesn't account for the weekend, so really only one day better. Then on the 29th, three days later, the backlog only moved one day. Jump forward two days to July 1st and still backlog to the 19th of May. Zero change from the previous update. So we're now a week into July and you are still working on emails from May.
And the records above don't even reference the customer service message boards which is much harder to follow, but appears to be at least backlogged to the first week in June just going by threads with no response.
Seriously? I don't know about anyone else, but I deal with dozens on online customer service providers, some larger, some smaller than Paizo on a regular basis and none of them are even close to being a month behind in addressing customer service issues.
Now, I am sure not all the cancelled subscription threads are related to this amazingly bad service response, but many of them are, yet there appears to be no escalated importance on your side to address it. Whenever the subject is addressed, we get the standard excuses like the virus, short-staffing (whatever that means), etc. yet this issue has existed long before covid. This is a systemic problem with how the business is designed and managed. This is NOT an issue with the customer service staff. They are excellent at their job, but you are setting them up to fail. It is incredibly disrespectful to them that you put them in a position to have to apologize to virtually every customer because of the response delays. Though to be honest, given the way OPF volunteers are treated it doesn't surprise me that paid employees would fair any better.
You owe it to your customers who continue to show brand loyalty for well over a decade and who send you their money on time, every month to improve your customer service mechanism. If its an issue of mismanagement, hold people accountable. If its an issue of staff, hire more customer service agents. If its an issue of procedures/systems, then change them to meet the demand.
The frustrating thing about this is the quality of the products is excellent so people really want them, but we just cannot communicate in a timely manner. Many of us go to our FLGS or Amazon, etc rather than deal with Paizo direct whenever possible, but there are some products we just cannot do that. Customers should not shudder at the thought of having to deal directly with Paizo because they cannot resolve an issue for six weeks or more after they report it.
Paizo, folks, ya gotta give us some indication that things are getting better. The delays are incredibly bad and getting worse, not better. The [lack of] progress with customer concerns is terrible. Example, on 6/24 you had emails going back to May 15th. That's nearly six weeks behind. After another 24 hours, the backlog was still on the 15th. Then on June 26, it was "caught up" to the 18th, but that doesn't account for the weekend, so really only one day better. Then on the 29th, three days later, the backlog only moved one day. Jump forward two days to July 1st and still backlog to the 19th of May. Zero change from the previous update. So we're now a week into July and you are still working on emails from May.
And the records above don't even reference the customer service message boards which is much harder to follow, but appears to be at least backlogged to the first week in June just going by threads with no response.
Seriously? I don't know about anyone else, but I deal with dozens on online customer service providers, some larger, some smaller than Paizo on a regular basis and none of them are even close to being a month behind in addressing customer service issues.
Now, I am sure not all the cancelled subscription threads are related to this amazingly bad service response, but many of them are, yet there appears to be no escalated importance on your side to address it. Whenever the subject is addressed, we get the standard excuses like the virus, short-staffing (whatever that means), etc. yet this issue has existed long before covid. This is a systemic problem with how the business is designed and managed. This is NOT an issue with the customer service staff. They are excellent at their job, but you are setting them up to fail. It is incredibly disrespectful to them that you put them in a position to have to apologize to virtually every customer because of the response delays. Though to be honest, given the way OPF volunteers are treated it doesn't surprise me that paid employees would fair...
I agree especially when people are having financial impaxts because of Paizo's lack of response. However, it seems to be behavior from the higher ups. I messaged Jeff Alvarez about an issue over 3 weeks ago and nor so much of an acknowledgement of my concern.
community@paizo.com is probably a good way to escalate these concerns.
One downside with posting it here (If this is the only place you’ve posted it) is that it’s the Paizo CS team who manage these boards and I daresay they have minimal say in staffing levels.
I’m sure the exec team do read this subforum from time to time, but it’s unlikely to be often enough to see the repetitive nature of the issues. Nor is there any guarantee they’ll see this directly.
community@paizo.com is probably a good way to escalate these concerns.One downside with posting it here (If this is the only place you’ve posted it) is that it’s the Paizo CS team who manage these boards and I daresay they have minimal say in staffing levels.
I’m sure the exec team do read this subforum from time to time, but it’s unlikely to be often enough to see the repetitive nature of the issues. Nor is there any guarantee they’ll see this directly.
I emailed that address about 2 or 3 weeks ago per the instructions of a CS rep. So far not even an acknowledgement. Waiting months and months is not acceptable and is a poor customer relation steategy.
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In fairness, covid-19 doesn't abide by customer service strategies.
Not excusing the struggles the customer service team are having. Just wanted to point out that the customer service team are trying their absolute best under the circumstances.
I agree they need more help from management (which I suspect is one of the many things that they're working on behind the scenes and also what keeps them awake at night most of all).
No, but I was also expected to be able to do my job from home with Covid raging across the state. So were lots of other people. Working remotely isnt that hard with internet connectivity.
It looks their tardiness in correspondance and fixing issues is goong to impact their bottom line.
community@paizo.com is probably a good way to escalate these concerns.I emailed that address about 2 or 3 weeks ago per the instructions of a CS rep. So far not even an acknowledgement. Waiting months and months is not acceptable and is a poor customer relation steategy.One downside with posting it here (If this is the only place you’ve posted it) is that it’s the Paizo CS team who manage these boards and I daresay they have minimal say in staffing levels.
I’m sure the exec team do read this subforum from time to time, but it’s unlikely to be often enough to see the repetitive nature of the issues. Nor is there any guarantee they’ll see this directly.
Sorry, I should have quoted. That was meant for the OP.
Just wanted to point out that the customer service team are trying their absolute best under the circumstances.
They also have a more significant role than just customer service, so a lot of times they’re working on things we don’t see. (Or don’t see for a long time).
The email queue growing beyond a month would be stressing them out, I suspect. (It would stress me!) I know they make exceptions for time critical issues, but it’s likely there are people looking to query or change a subscription that don’t get attended to in time for the next.
I really hope they get more CS resources soon, for the staff’s sake.
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The forums have needed an extraordinary amount of moderation in the past couple months, as well.
If they can't staff up to the necessary levels with new hires, perhaps locking the forums over the weekends (or even for a few weeks) might give them the break they need to catch up. I've seen a lot of 'concern trolling' recently that brings in issues from other sites, and in general, creates a lot of flagging and fighting that CS staff are also charged with managing.
We had the classic concern troll post on the first day of a three-day weekend, which can't be fun for them to parcel out. The OP claims to be from Ireland, and even if they didn't know it was a national holiday, they posted at 3:30 am Saturday morning (their time), knowing full well that there was at least 48 hours before staff would be back at work. He even acknowledged the click-bait headline (Hopefully, me censoring W*ndigo was enough to pique your curiosity into reading this thread. )
As an aside, let me debunk the "working from home isn't hard" theory. Working from home on problems like these is not a matter of "internet connectivity". There's a lot more collaboration and coordination necessary that can't be solved with a faster connection.
And now Diego has had to interrupt his holiday weekend to lock the thread.
Thinking about this further:
I wonder how much time they have to spend moderating other social media accounts? Is CS staff responsible for the Facebook pages, Twitter thread, You tube comments, etc?
If the forums are not the sole source of moderation issues, then I wouldn't want to see the forums closed and force everyone to migrate to those other platforms for discussions.
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It looks their tardiness in correspondance and fixing issues is going to impact their bottom line.
With the greatest of respect, but I think you may be mistaking cause for effect here. To me it looks like the kind of conduct I've seen before - esp. on Kickstarter - when a company is beginning to be strapped for cash flow.
To illustrate, let me share my direct experience with Paizo's customer service in late May. I placed several orders with adjustments within a couple of days and asked CS to make adjustments to shipping. They did, within a short time, sometimes answering my emails within a day, sometimes within hours, in one incident within the hour. That was on May 22 or thereabout - way beyond the official cut-off date for CS responsiveness even now (early July). The consolidated shipment went out. One June 5, I sent them a follow-up to thank them and inquire about damaged product. Radio silence since.
The thing I didn't like about the experience is that, when I offered to give more money (for more product, of course), they were responsive in the extreme - 40 minutes even. But when I ask them to resolve an issue that didn't net them extra $, they ghost me for 5 weeks and going.
I'm sure a lot more is going on than is visible to the customer. From the outside it's hard to fight off the impression that this conduct matches that of a company strapped for cashflow. Now, I hope to be wrong on this one, because for one, I want to see this company thrive and go forward, and I want it to regain customer confidence. In the meantime, however, not responding to 1000+ customer inquiries is not only a bad look but dis-incentivizes follow-up purchases, thus directly contributing to shortages in cashflow to staff customer service. Hope Paizo manages to solve this situation soon, and only wish them the best in doing so.
And now Diego has had to interrupt his holiday weekend to lock the thread.
I just saw that.
As an aside, let me debunk the "working from home isn't hard" theory. Working from home on problems like these is not a matter of "internet connectivity". There's a lot more collaboration and coordination necessary that can't be solved with a faster connection.
I live in one the poorest States in the Union abd was expected to teach and respond to students, be in Staff Meetings and particapte in and prepare Faculty PD. This was in addition to 2 university classes I was faciliating and recovering from 2 retina dettachment surgeries. While we has issues lack of communication with students, parents and other stakeholders was never one of them.
It looks their tardiness in correspondance and fixing issues is going to impact their bottom line.With the greatest of respect, but I think you may be mistaking cause for effect here. To me it looks like the kind of conduct I've seen before - esp. on Kickstarter - when a company is beginning to be strapped for cash flow.
To illustrate, let me share my direct experience with Paizo's customer service in late May. I placed several orders with adjustments within a couple of days and asked CS to make adjustments to shipping. They did, within a short time, sometimes answering my emails within a day, sometimes within hours, in one incident within the hour. That was on May 22 or thereabout - way beyond the official cut-off date for CS responsiveness even now (early July). The consolidated shipment went out. One June 5, I sent them a follow-up to thank them and inquire about damaged product. Radio silence since.
The thing I didn't like about the experience is that, when I offered to give more money (for more product, of course), they were responsive in the extreme - 40 minutes even. But when I ask them to resolve an issue that didn't net them extra $, they ghost me for 5 weeks and going.
I'm sure a lot more is going on than is visible to the customer. From the outside it's hard to fight off the impression that this conduct matches that of a company strapped for cashflow. Now, I hope to be wrong on this one, because for one, I want to see this company thrive and go forward, and I want it to regain customer confidence. In the meantime, however, not responding to 1000+ customer inquiries is not only a bad look but dis-incentivizes follow-up purchases, thus directly contributing to shortages in cashflow to staff customer service. Hope Paizo manages to solve this situation soon, and only wish them the best in doing so.
That was not my experience. I asked about adding to an order and my query got passed over in the alloted time. I did get a response a day or two after but I am not sure I would have if I hadnt said anything to CS.
Thinking about this further:
I wonder how much time they have to spend moderating other social media accounts? Is CS staff responsible for the Facebook pages, Twitter thread, You tube comments, etc?
If the forums are not the sole source of moderation issues, then I wouldn't want to see the forums closed and force everyone to migrate to those other platforms for discussions.
Pretty sure that job falls to Aaron Shanks, not CS staff.
I wonder if the shutdown in RPG distribution channels has pushed the demand here as well and if a lot of that demand is from people who aren’t used to working with Paizo’s IT systems.
I’m sure new customers require more CS time than us frequent fliers.
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If the system requires customer service agents to moderate all the message boards, plus possibly other social media platforms, at a time when they are a month to six weeks behind on addressing customer service issues, then the system is broken. Again, as I said, I do not believe this is a n issue with customer service agents. Every interaction I’ve ever had with them indicates they are extremely competent in their role. In fact, they go above and beyond since they become the “face” of the company and take all the heat on these various issues despite not having any control over the procedures and resources that put them in this position in the first place. This topic is pointed squarely at the managers and supervisors who design the systems under which the agents operate. Sending emails would seem like the “right” way to communicate with Paizo, but they have shown that emails are either ignored entirely or not addressed for months. They very idea that their preferred method of conducting private business appears to be a public forum where you have to check back and scan hundreds of posts every few days to see if they responded is ludicrous. Name one other company that deals with direct customer service who’s response time is a month to six weeks. Not the time to resolve your issue, or send you something, but just to acknowledge you even exist. How can anyone think this is okay and make excuses for them?
If the system requires customer service agents to moderate all the message boards, plus possibly other social media platforms, at a time when they are a month to six weeks behind on addressing customer service issues, then the system is broken. Again, as I said, I do not believe this is a n issue with customer service agents. Every interaction I’ve ever had with them indicates they are extremely competent in their role. In fact, they go above and beyond since they become the “face” of the company and take all the heat on these various issues despite not having any control over the procedures and resources that put them in this position in the first place. This topic is pointed squarely at the managers and supervisors who design the systems under which the agents operate. Sending emails would seem like the “right” way to communicate with Paizo, but they have shown that emails are either ignored entirely or not addressed for months. They very idea that their preferred method of conducting private business appears to be a public forum where you have to check back and scan hundreds of posts every few days to see if they responded is ludicrous. Name one other company that deals with direct customer service who’s response time is a month to six weeks. Not the time to resolve your issue, or send you something, but just to acknowledge you even exist. How can anyone think this is okay and make excuses for them?
I don’t know if this was addressed to me (I suggested emailing community@paizo.com, so it kind of sounded like it was). But to be clear, I’m neither making excuses, nor thinking it’s okay.
The reason for suggesting email is because the community email is slightly higher up the chain of command. Posting in the CS forum means it’s the responsibility of the CS team to deal with. Like you, I don’t think the current problems are the fault of the CS people. I think there are systemic problems and unfortunately the executive team no longer offer direct, email contact.
FWIW, I’m pretty sure the community@paizo.com email goes to a different person and is part of a different queue than customer.service@paizo.com. One isn’t guaranteed an answer, but it’s likely to be the fastest way to get your issue in front of someone who can do something about it. (Barring direct contact with one of the executive team). The CS emails might be a month and a bit behind, but I don’t think the community email address is.
, then the system is broken.
Of course the system is broken. The US is currently broken. I’m not sure what Else to say other than we have to just deal with it and hope for the best. If you are in the US, you can vote in Nov. “Maybe it will start to get better in the new year.
Businesses are closing left and right, this is where we are at.
However, people should not have to wait weeks and months for responses that impact their finaces. That is not entitlement, even if others are insulted those who might not make a certain amount, on previous boards.
All I know is the boss has sent me to Indiana and Chicago and another guy to Oklahoma and the boss is personally driving to Connecticut next week because supply chains have broken down and that's the only way we can get the materials we need to complete our jobs.
Even something as simple as getting adhesive requires a week of calls and a jaunt to Iowa.
For a Customer Service job?
For a Customer Service job?
Obviously not, just letting you know how f*&%ed up EVERYTHING is right now.
Do with it what you will.
Apples and green chile.
That's fine, if you want to be obstinate that's up to you.
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That's fine, if you want to be obstinate that's up to you.
Don't get upset if you are talking about 2 different skills sets that have nothing to do with each other. Is Paizo CS having to drive to Canada to get supplies or to New Mexico? No. They are in front of their computer, either at home or at Paizo headquarters answering questions and processing and fixing orders.
Right now I am looking at the Recent Threads. Of the 8 r so that are there now, 4 of them are asking for cancellations. Upper management needs to do something to help CS out.
So, what if the answer is “CS cannot resolve your issue until X resource is available”? Would that answer be acceptable or considered no answer at all?
I think most people would be happy with that type of communication rather than waiting for weeks and weeks and still not be answered or having their charges be off.
Either way, Paizo is not coming off looking well on this and the CS Reps are taking the brunt of what the higher ups should be addressing with customers.
Upper management DO need to do something (and hopefully are).
However, I'd be careful about reading too much into the number of cancellation threads. There is always a spike in those when a new AP comes out (even for non-AP product lines. It's just a convenient stepping off point for people, I suspect).
I'm sure the month long queue is doing harm but I suspect the breakdown in RPG distribution channels, the decline in employment around the world and the economic fallout of covid in the US in particular are having just as serious effects.
Paizo may be in the position of choosing their response between the options of "terrible", "lousy" and "appalling".
From my perspective, it seems to me that the biggest issue is people with subscriptions which aren't "sticking".
You see a lot of people claiming to have subs yet with no forum tags who then get skipped over and need CS support just to get their order manually filled.
My guessstimate would be that this bug is accounting for a good 20-40% of CS queries at the moment. Its been going on for nearly six months now.
Must be enormously frustrating for the CS and IT teams. (Especially as the queue has now bled over to span two subscription runs).
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That's fine, if you want to be obstinate that's up to you.Don't get upset if you are talking about 2 different skills sets that have nothing to do with each other. Is Paizo CS having to drive to Canada to get supplies or to New Mexico? No. They are in front of their computer, either at home or at Paizo headquarters answering questions and processing and fixing orders.
Butterfly affect, yo.
It's all connected.
My observation was just based off thr titles of the threads
Have product numbers been impacted? The only product I know of that is delayed is the Absalom book and module but that was before Covid.
Lots of things have been pushed around (the cards in particular), however that had started back in December/January, so it’s hard to untangle what’s COVID related and what’s been caught up in the rush to get PF2 out the door (the new edition rush was part of the problem with the Absalom books).
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How is shipping logistics issues experienced by a bunch of different companies connected to Paizo's customer service?
So, for context, we know that Paizo has distributors. At least one of them (probably the biggest) is Diamond Book/Alliance Game Distributors, who stopped distributions entirely for several months due to COVID-19. Here's their announcement.
DC Comics ended an exclusive contract with Diamond Comic Distributors over the issue, despite 25 years of working together. This was so significant that it's almost certainly not entirely due to COVID-19 shipping cessation, but the timing was no coincidence.
If you don't think things like this also have an impact on Paizo's cash flow, and therefore the overall resources Paizo can bring to bear to solve any problem, including the critical ones like paying artists and freelancers to keep their product pipeline flowing but also other ones like catching up on customer service or any projects like technical issues with the site, then...well, go take an accounting 101 class and some finance 101 while you're at it. I mean it; accounting is kind of an interesting subject where you learn that corporations exist essentially as machines to create cash flow streams which can be compared as lump sums based on their net present value.
What absolutely is not helpful is playing armchair quarterback on Paizo's customer support structure with no context. Running a business is hard. It is a never-ending battle of always failing at something and trying to do the best with what you have so that you're succeeding at the important things and the not wasting time fixing the unimportant things instead.
Is a multiple week backlog in support requests bad, and should complaints about the backlog be considered fair criticism? Sure, on both counts. Can they actually do better right now? I have no idea. But I'm willing to bet that they are making some tough choices based on information I don't have, and I certainly can't say I wouldn't make the same choices if I were in their shoes.
I work for a stupid-huge company with wonderful margins on our products and we still had layoffs and are doing cost-cutting measures to align to our expected cash flow.
Also, for the record, they sometimes handle certain time-sensitive requests like cancelations or other adjustments to impending shipments out of order because it just makes their jobs easier down the line. It's one of those things that if you stop and think about makes sense, but initially feels a little haphazard.
I have wondered on the shutdown of distribution channels and whether that has a direct effect.
Presumably at least some of the people who usually buy from FLGSes have switched to ordering direct, which is likely to lead to an influx of queries.
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As long as I can remember, there have been a lot of cancellation threads in the customer service forum. Years ago, it used to alarm me a little bit, but I've come to recognize it as the regular churn of people starting and cancelling subscriptions.
Remember that you *don't* see people starting subscriptions, because those just happen, they don't require a thread in the forums. So, looking at forum subject lines is always going to give you a very stilted view of how subscriptions are going. The fact is that I don't think any of us have any way to really know how subscriptions are going, and any illusion of data we have is just going to be that: an illusion.
Lots of things have been pushed around (the cards in particular), however that had started back in December/January, so it’s hard to untangle what’s COVID related and what’s been caught up in the rush to get PF2 out the door (the new edition rush was part of the problem with the Absalom books).
The new GM screens were as well but thise were also befirw Covid and it could have made sense to release it at GEN CON.
Every occupation and career is hard within its own system. However when people cannot get answers to questions that impact their bottom line for 6 weeks it is up to the company that is profitting from those people to answer them, and not 6 or so weeks later. Transactional relationships and all.
Oh and DC already had plans to stop using Diamond. They were and are allowing their books to be sold on Tuesday while Diamond wont allow the books they ship to be sold until the following day.
Lots of things have been pushed around (the cards in particular), however that had started back in December/January, so it’s hard to untangle what’s COVID related and what’s been caught up in the rush to get PF2 out the door (the new edition rush was part of the problem with the Absalom books).The new GM screens were as well but thise were also befirw Covid and it could have made sense to release it at GEN CON.
Yeah, I’m not sure beyond a feeling that there have been some delays.
(I’m not really paying attention to product slippages, since it’s taking packages 90+ days to get to me from the states at the moment, so it doesn’t really affect me much if something is pushed a month late).
Lots of things have been pushed around (the cards in particular), however that had started back in December/January, so it’s hard to untangle what’s COVID related and what’s been caught up in the rush to get PF2 out the door (the new edition rush was part of the problem with the Absalom books).The new GM screens were as well but thise were also befirw Covid and it could have made sense to release it at GEN CON.Yeah, I’m not sure beyond a feeling that there have been some delays.
(I’m not really paying attention to product slippages, since it’s taking packages 90+ days to get to me from the states at the moment, so it doesn’t really affect me much if something is pushed a month late).
Oh? Where about are you?