Shoanti shaman PC searching for Gozrehs forgotten spring under Korvosa...


Curse of the Crimson Throne


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Finally I seem to have a group of 6 (!) players to play CotCT. One player wants to play a Shoanti shaman (Hawk clan, lore) and he has this great idea that he is in Korvosa searching for the forgotten spring of Gozreh. His investigations have led him to believe it is located in the vaults under control of some criminal gang. This is his reason to really care for the wellbeing of the city and maybe also have met Gaedren.

So my questions are:
1. Any reason playing a Shoanti shaman will be a problem?
2. What of the shoanti history in Korvosa should be known to him?
3. How can his backstory idea tie in with the actual evil under Korvosa?

As quite new to the setting any ideas are welcome.

Cheers


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A lot of Korvosans don't like the Shoanti, but this can be a way to enhance roleplaying -- right now things are just tense, not "lynch-on-sight". It does give you a really good link for one of the quests in book 2. I don't expect that playing a Shoanti will be more of a problem than you want to make it.

Book 4 would need some work, because your PC would probably know a fair amount of the mysterious Shoanti background in that book. Done well, though, it could really give the player a good time (and let him be the native guide to the rest of the players after the reverse action in books 1-3.) Just be aware how you're going to handle that. Might have some of the characters be more friendly to him (same quah?), others be old enemies of his family or quah or some-such.

If the character has ranks in Knowledge (history) then he probably knows something of the Shoanti past in Korvosa. If he doesn't, oh well, he wasn't paying attention when the tribal bards were telling stories of their past so he doesn't know it. But you could let him knock 5 off the DC of Shoanti-related knowledge checks or something.

As far as the spring goes, it seems to me that you have two options. One is to put it in the Arkona dungeon in book 3 -- that gives him a nice milestone completion, and maybe something to help them survive that killer dungeon. The second is that somehow the Queen seized and repurposed the spring (it's where she gets some of the mystical ingredients for making the Gray Maidens? it's part of her immortality bath recipe?)


tonyz wrote:

A lot of Korvosans don't like the Shoanti, but this can be a way to enhance roleplaying -- right now things are just tense, not "lynch-on-sight". It does give you a really good link for one of the quests in book 2. I don't expect that playing a Shoanti will be more of a problem than you want to make it.

Book 4 would need some work, because your PC would probably know a fair amount of the mysterious Shoanti background in that book. Done well, though, it could really give the player a good time (and let him be the native guide to the rest of the players after the reverse action in books 1-3.) Just be aware how you're going to handle that. Might have some of the characters be more friendly to him (same quah?), others be old enemies of his family or quah or some-such.

If the character has ranks in Knowledge (history) then he probably knows something of the Shoanti past in Korvosa. If he doesn't, oh well, he wasn't paying attention when the tribal bards were telling stories of their past so he doesn't know it. But you could let him knock 5 off the DC of Shoanti-related knowledge checks or something.

As far as the spring goes, it seems to me that you have two options. One is to put it in the Arkona dungeon in book 3 -- that gives him a nice milestone completion, and maybe something to help them survive that killer dungeon. The second is that somehow the Queen seized and repurposed the spring (it's where she gets some of the mystical ingredients for making the Gray Maidens? it's part of her immortality bath recipe?)

Fantastic ideas! It's the most ambitious roleplayer in the group so I believe he will handle the role as shoanti guide great even in part 4. Also he chose one of the tribes that aren't mentioned in the AP so it might be less complicated. Just letting him know about customs, deities and a bit of history.

I will probably let him be aware of the importance of Korvosa but leave out the most important details, as the Crown of Fangs för example ;).

I really like the idea of the Arkona dungeon. This could give him a connection to house Arkona and an interest to get in contact with them even before chapter 3. Is it common knowledge that House Arkona is rumored to be in control of a large part of the criminal activity in the city? The player has mentioned that his character has a lead to some thieves/criminals dominating the area where his investigations has taken him - Old Korvosa, where he has been living as a fortune teller for some time, trying go hide his background.

The second idea is also great. I need to read up on chapter 2 and 3 now :).


I don't have advice for most of your questions, but I'm currently running my group through book 2 and one of the players is playing a Shoanti character.
He started off knowing Thousand Bones so introduction of the quest at the end of book 1 was really easy. (I think it's the quest Tonyz meant, but said the wrong book.)
He's playing one from the Skull Clan, which is the main Quah in book 4, but he's been living near Korvosa for a long time so he won't know most of the NPCs. I let him know some of the beliefs and superstitions talked about in book 4 so instead of having someone succeed at a roll to get the information he already has it and will be able to let the others know.
For the history your player would know, it would probably be something as simple as "the Shoanti used to protect the land that Korvosa is on, Chelish invaders took over."

As for the racism Shoanti could face in Korvosa, he really wanted everyone to be aggressive towards him and assumed they would be (to the point where he was looking for it in interactions from every NPC he encountered), but most of the NPCs they're dealing with are decent people and with how the US is right now I really didn't want to play up that aspect of it. (Bad enough with the other things that happen in the first two books of the campaign, I didn't need to make Golarion feel even more like the real world.)


Warped Savant wrote:

I don't have advice for most of your questions, but I'm currently running my group through book 2 and one of the players is playing a Shoanti character.

He started off knowing Thousand Bones so introduction of the quest at the end of book 1 was really easy. (I think it's the quest Tonyz meant, but said the wrong book.)
He's playing one from the Skull Clan, which is the main Quah in book 4, but he's been living near Korvosa for a long time so he won't know most of the NPCs. I let him know some of the beliefs and superstitions talked about in book 4 so instead of having someone succeed at a roll to get the information he already has it and will be able to let the others know.
For the history your player would know, it would probably be something as simple as "the Shoanti used to protect the land that Korvosa is on, Chelish invaders took over."

As for the racism Shoanti could face in Korvosa, he really wanted everyone to be aggressive towards him and assumed they would be (to the point where he was looking for it in interactions from every NPC he encountered), but most of the NPCs they're dealing with are decent people and with how the US is right now I really didn't want to play up that aspect of it. (Bad enough with the other things that happen in the first two books of the campaign, I didn't need to make Golarion feel even more like the real world.)

Aah, that makes sense, yeah it's probably Thousand Bones and maybe it does make sense that they know each other a bit.

I also decided not to reveal more about why Korvosa was protected by Shoanti than what's mentioned in the Player's companion. My player based his search for "Gozrehs forgotten spring" on this info. Telling him of the evil under the city that has to be stopped from getting out would both ruin his idea but also reveal too much. Don't you think? This way I can actually make the forgotten spring a reality but also add to it with another perspective of why protecting Korvosa is important in chapter 4.

Thanks for sharing!


Right, Thousand Bones is in book 1. Mea culpa.

Anyway, what about the idea of him finding the spring in book 3... with a pipe going into it taking all the water ... somewhere. (An otyugh sewer worker could tell them it leads to Castle Korvosa eventually....)


Belloque wrote:

So my questions are:

1. Any reason playing a Shoanti shaman will be a problem?
2. What of the shoanti history in Korvosa should be known to him?
3. How can his backstory idea tie in with the actual evil under Korvosa?

1. The Scarzni, anyone who openly identifies or talks about their Chelaxian descent and virtually every antagonist in the first 3 books will hate the character, but overall, it should be just roleplay incidents as opposed to actual problems with the character existing in general.

2. So the real Shoanti history you can find in the beginning of Book 5 or the end of book 4, depending on if you are playing the original or the remake respectively. In short, the Shoanti had a great hero who helped many paladins in a crusade to defeat an evil dragon called Kazavon, but the dragon wouldn't stay dead so 7 of the surviving paladins took pieces of the dragon's dead body (The Shoanti took the teeth) to hide the artifacts forever. The Shoanti in this time lived all over East Varisia, not just in the Storval Plateau, and the tribe of this hero lived near the Runevault of Sorshen, now known as the hill that Castle Korvosa rests atop. The local shamans decided at the time to simply bury the artifact in the Vault and watch over it, but through time the history was lost and only now does the vague context remain of what was so important about the hill.

The Shoanti were long ago (~400 years ago, and ~200 years after the artifacts burial) expelled by colonizing Chelaxians from the area around the mound and the Shoanti, not knowing too much about what was so important, simply left when fighting a losing war became to costly, but they still watched on knowing something was important. This is why Thousand Bones wishes to have an enclave of Shoanti inside Korvosa; he both wants peace between the nations which have been in a virtual cold war ever since the original Shoanti left, and the ability for Shoanti to return to their sacred ground. But of course, racism runs high in many factions inside of Korvosa.

I had a player who wanted to play a Shoanti, and I told him about the vague cultural importance (but even Thousand Bones doesn't know the true history) as well as the position of the Shoanti within the city (second class citizens that are constantly harassed) and had the reason he joined in with the party be that he was looking for Gaeken (from the last part of book 1), although it turned out that Gadren Lamm was a false lead. When the Shoanti leave after recovering the body, the Shaman player can simply "feel something rising at the heart of Korvosa" (as the queen has begun reforging the Teeth into The Fangs of Kazavon) and Thousand Bones can recommend the player stays (as the Sacred Ground will always be sacred, he will not be a Tsamek or outsider when he returns).

As for more Shoanti history, especially history outside of Korvosa, I'd recommend the entire section on Shoanti in the back of book 4.

3. In book 4, once the shaman and his party have become Narhlest, or brothers, of the Sun tribe, quite simply his quest to recover the sword from castle Scarwall and slay Ileosa as part of the main story will tie into said evil. You shouldn't need to add or change anything to make it work, but play up the acceptance into another tribe and the cultural elements of the rituals leading up to receiving the Sun Shaman's blessing for the quest, as well as the significance of a Sun Tribe's warrior having been the part of the quest in it's previous iteration.

Something to be careful with, it seems like the player has foreknowledge of the campaign if they came to you with this tidbit of information. I personally don't mind if a player knows the AP, because you can still tell a good story of an individual character's journey even if they player knows what will happen, but you still should know what they know and adapt accordingly and make a better story out of it and they should be willing to work with you to the same end.

Good luck with my favorite AP!


tonyz wrote:

Right, Thousand Bones is in book 1. Mea culpa.

Anyway, what about the idea of him finding the spring in book 3... with a pipe going into it taking all the water ... somewhere. (An otyugh sewer worker could tell them it leads to Castle Korvosa eventually....)

Not bad, not bad at all. The forgotten spring is being drained and this reveals the importance of what's under the Mastaba. Also it adds to the picture of how the queen is not what she seems as revealed in the beginning of chapter 3.


AwesomenessDog wrote:
Belloque wrote:

So my questions are:

1. Any reason playing a Shoanti shaman will be a problem?
2. What of the shoanti history in Korvosa should be known to him?
3. How can his backstory idea tie in with the actual evil under Korvosa?

1. The Scarzni, anyone who openly identifies or talks about their Chelaxian descent and virtually every antagonist in the first 3 books will hate the character, but overall, it should be just roleplay incidents as opposed to actual problems with the character existing in general.

2. So the real Shoanti history you can find in the beginning of Book 5 or the end of book 4, depending on if you are playing the original or the remake respectively. In short, the Shoanti had a great hero who helped many paladins in a crusade to defeat an evil dragon called Kazavon, but the dragon wouldn't stay dead so 7 of the surviving paladins took pieces of the dragon's dead body (The Shoanti took the teeth) to hide the artifacts forever. The Shoanti in this time lived all over East Varisia, not just in the Storval Plateau, and the tribe of this hero lived near the Runevault of Sorshen, now known as the hill that Castle Korvosa rests atop. The local shamans decided at the time to simply bury the artifact in the Vault and watch over it, but through time the history was lost and only now does the vague context remain of what was so important about the hill.

Thanks for the history lesson! :)

I won't reveal more of the history until chapter 4 but will use Thousand Bones as a contact the shaman player knows a bit and that will tell him to stay to protect the city from future evil. Great! Also it really does seem like chapter 4 will be a natural continuation of the shaman player's search for the Forgotten spring. Do all players get admitted in the Sun tribe after chapter 4? The Shaman player has mentioned how his search is a way to atone for former mistakes and get respect from his former tribe that has shunned him. Becoming a member of the Sun tribe would be a great turn of events.

Also I'm positive he doesn't know anything about the campaign. He never even played Pathfinder. He wanted to be a druid-like indigenous character and asked about the lore. I mentioned shoanti and shaman seemed natural. Also he read the Player's companion and added the parts about Gozreh and the Vaults. It all just turned out really interesting. I still haven't mentioned anything about a greater evil under Korvosa not to be let out. Not sure I need him to sesrvh for Gaedren at all. Instead the Harrowing has chosen him for reasons unknown to Zallara. :)

Cheers!


Belloque wrote:


I won't reveal more of the history until chapter 4 but will use Thousand Bones as a contact the shaman player knows a bit and that will tell him to stay to protect the city from future evil. Great! Also it really does seem like chapter 4 will be a natural continuation of the shaman player's search for the Forgotten spring. Do all players get admitted in the Sun tribe after chapter 4? The Shaman player has mentioned how his search is a way to atone for former mistakes and get respect from his former tribe that has shunned him. Becoming a member of the Sun tribe would be a great turn of events.
Also I'm positive he doesn't know anything about the campaign. He never even played Pathfinder. He wanted to be a druid-like indigenous character and asked about the lore. I mentioned shoanti and shaman seemed natural. Also he read the Player's companion and added the parts about Gozreh and the Vaults. It all just turned out really interesting. I still haven't mentioned anything about a greater evil under Korvosa not to be let out. Not sure I need him to sesrvh for Gaedren at all. Instead the Harrowing has chosen him for reasons unknown to Zallara. :)

Assuming the other players haven't done anything to deserve the wrath of the Sun Tribe, it is intended that all players have to undergo the final trial and any who have their totems still erect after the third day (and they have called their healer) are welcomed as full members of the tribe while those who failed are still recognized as brothers and sisters, granting the party full welcome and hospitality. If they all fail... well, lets just hope that doesn't happen.

On the topic of being shunned, what I also did for my Shoanti player was make him from the Sun tribe originally, but for reasons I can't remember right now, he left the tribe which is enough to have your status revoked basically back to Outsider among the more xenophobic Sun tribe. Since Thousand Bones' attempt at peace among Korvosa is fairly recent, I had Thousand Bones offer the player a place in the Skull Tribe's detachment headed to Korvosa and there he was. Again, the fourth book has literally all the information you could need on the 7 different tribes of Shoanti, so I would spoon feed your player info from there to let him come up with which tribe he was originally from (although Sun or Skull obviously makes the most sense, and the party encounters the Moon Tribe as well) and what his "shame" would be.

As for the player's knowledge, like I said, I personally don't have problems with players having foreknowledge but understand if others do. Something you might want to at least learn about your player's wishes for the campaign is "what if this Holy Fountain turns out to not be a Fountain at all?" Obviously the first slap in the face is when it turns out the sacred fountain is just an artifact of evil, but then there's also the Runewell of Lust at the end of the entire AP. Certainly stopping these evils *should* be enough to make up for his shame, but the player might become more interested in finding that specific thing, so I would say tempering or at least getting to know his full expectations first is a really good idea.

And with Zellara, it's always great to keep people guessing on the full validity of the Harrowing, even if it all ultimately comes true. Making her speak in vague and very generalized terms works really well for me and could be a good way to play with the Shoanti: "Well, as for you, of course you don't know this man, but I saw you in the market just the other day. I could be wrong, but someone who has traveled so far from home in Varisia must be destined for a powerful future, or it's just sheer coincidence."


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I might consider having the 'Spring of gozreh' be a metaphor for the magical protections placed on Kazavon's Fangs inside the Grand Mastaba.

Initially the PC could be looking for 'the Spring'. Then they start to uncover clues that the 'spring' is really some kind of ward, perhaps via conversations with Thousand Bones.

Then this is confirmed by Neolandus to the PC at the start of book 4. Add the references to the Seneschal's clues.

Follow this up by having Amarund (p254 anniversary edition) be a follower of Gozreh. Then have the PC pick up the task that Amarund had: namely to safely conceal Kazavon's Fangs.

Just an idea, but it blends the PCs ambition into being a central motivation to follow the campaign.

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