[Legendary Games] Corefinder


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I can't wait for the next update whenever that will be. I see that they gotten up to #31 but I don't feel like joining Patreon to see most of them. Though I have been able to read up to #26. I like how single attack and dual attack actions work. But I am not a fan of the full attack, personally would have given them 2 extra attacks at -5 regardless of BA.

Dark Archive

I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there any info on your intentions about feats that scale per level? I really recommend that you take a look at New Paths Expanded by Kobold Press. Both classes and feats presented there are excellent and I really like their approach to scalable feats, as well as what they did with Leadership.

Silver Crusade

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nightflier wrote:
I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there any info on your intentions about feats that scale per level? I really recommend that you take a look at New Paths Expanded by Kobold Press. Both classes and feats presented there are excellent and I really like their approach to scalable feats, as well as what they did with Leadership.

Far more feats scale than they did previously, and wherever it would make sense, we have included scaling. Some feats were just very 'immediate benefit' that couldn't really scale due to being powerful enough at base or providing some new action-like benefit that can't really scale.

What I can say is prereqs are far less stringent in this system, leading to far more variety in build. Generally, if you don't NEED a few for a second one to work (like how mechanically you don't need point blank shot to use precise shot), it won't be a prerequisite. Because of this, we're hoping that we'll see more build variety by unshackling people from long feat chains.

To this, spring attack in this system has no feat prereqs.


Are there any feats that are the exact same as before?


A suggestion: Change the name of Full Actions (again). "Full Action" would be a fine name if Full Attack was still a Full Action, but since it is now a Standard action I think it will create as much confusion as it alleviates.

Maybe "Complex Action"?

_
glass.

Silver Crusade

Dragon78 wrote:
Are there any feats that are the exact same as before?

There are some, but it's not the norm. We're going to test out these newer feats, and perhaps if people want the older ones as well, we'll just take the revamped versions and make them into different feats.

One thing though, weapon focus is sweet now.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

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Oh dear, we are so very VERY behind on posting links!

We've covered all the 20s and are already up into the 30s for public previews (and almost up to 40 for Patron advanced previews). The digests #21-30 dealt with minor, insignificant stuff like how attacks work and damage and resistance, so by all means catch up on those!

Plus, you can check out the latest public reveals right here as we dive into combat maneuvers:

Corefinder Design Digest #31: Maneuvers (Heimlich and otherwise)

Corefinder Design Digest #32: Putting Together the Pieces


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Wow, skipped a lot.

Not a fan of adding your BA to damage.

Resistance is a little strange, personally it was easier before.


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Dragon78 wrote:

Wow, skipped a lot.

Not a fan of adding your BA to damage.

It does feel a bit weird coming from a PF1 position, but it's there to hide a multitude of sins (which aren't really sins) caused by the consolidation of bonus types, changes to Power Attack, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I've forgotten.

There were a number of conversations about it, and a good deal of number-crunching, and the bottom line is that it works pretty darn well to keep the number-scaling in line with what you see in PF1.

Quote:
Resistance is a little strange, personally it was easier before.

This one was a tricky one. We want all types of "resistance" to work the same way. So we want Damage Reduction and Fire Resistance to have the same mechanics, and we have so far settled on Resistance and Reduced Resistance, and it will boil down to word count as to how any given creature's Resistance/RR will be written out.

Mechanically, there is no difference between Resistance: 10 Slashing, Piercing versus Resistance: 10 Weapon Damage/RR 0 Bludgeoning (if I've remembered the format right). Nor between Resistance: 10 Fire, Cold, Electricity; 15 Acid versus Resistance: 15 all energy/RR 10 Fire, Cold, Electricity; 0 Sonic, Positive, Negative. It will all come down to whichever is shorter to write. I'm aware that both of those examples actually favour the version closer to the existing version. The important thing for us is to allow for some of the more bizarre and crazy resistance combinations and vulnerabilities that exist out there without needing to write out every. single. thing. every. time.

That said, it's an experiment, it might not work, we may revert back depending on feedback, so thank you for the input.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

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Even more updates:

#33: Power Maneuvers

#34: Power Too

#35: Grapple Check!

#36: Grapple Too!!

#37: SUNDER!

#38: Crossover

#39: Climb Aboard

#40: The Thrill of the Chase

#41: Yoink!


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I like the option to climb and hold onto bigger creatures.


Looks like everyone must have gone to the other site or they are on a long vacation.

I do like the new options like cringe, hoodwinked, rally, rook, etc.

Do we have an idea of what subjects/rules that we will be looking at next after combat maneuvers/options?

Will Corefinder get a physical release?


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Dragon78 wrote:

Looks like everyone must have gone to the other site or they are on a long vacation.

I do like the new options like cringe, hoodwinked, rally, rook, etc.

Do we have an idea of what subjects/rules that we will be looking at next after combat maneuvers/options?

Will Corefinder get a physical release?

Things have been very quiet in chat because yes, holidays.

I don't represent Legendary Games, but everything I've heard supports the idea of a physical release.


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Evade replaces acrobatics to get past enemies and is opposed by CMD less power (generally the Str mod?). The mechanic sounds sensible enough, but that means one more kind of CMD to note on your character sheet (normal CMD, flat-footed/denied dex CMD, trip CMD, disarm CMD {I think weapon enhancement bonus adds to that now?}, evade CMD). Feint/hoodwink adds one more CMD, though that replaces the sense-motive-or-similar which opposes feint in PF1. Just saying, that list of defence values is getting long.

I think the condition chains look good, tho' I'll need to take a look at the condition values post to be sure.


I hope acrobatics is still an option.

Personally having the option to use CMD or sense motive vs feint would be nice.


PF normally uses sense Motive vs Feint but if you are not trained in it there is a default calculation based around character level.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

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Dragon78 wrote:
Looks like everyone must have gone to the other site or they are on a long vacation.

Yep, that whole Christmas-New Year's fugue state just turned into rest, relaxation, family, and a mental break.

Dragon78 wrote:
I do like the new options like cringe, hoodwinked, rally, rook, etc.

Yay, glad you're enjoying!

Dragon78 wrote:
Do we have an idea of what subjects/rules that we will be looking at next after combat maneuvers/options?

We've started rolling out info on conditions (including condition chains of greater and lesser severity). More stuff coming soon!

Dragon78 wrote:
Will Corefinder get a physical release?

Yes!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Dragon78 wrote:

I hope acrobatics is still an option.

Personally having the option to use CMD or sense motive vs feint would be nice.

The Acrobatics skill definitely still exists. I think in current CF Alpha the ability to evade AoOs has been rolled specifically into the Evade combat maneuver rather than being a skill application. We'll see how it works in playtest.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

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avr wrote:
Evade replaces acrobatics to get past enemies and is opposed by CMD less power (generally the Str mod?). The mechanic sounds sensible enough, but that means one more kind of CMD to note on your character sheet (normal CMD, flat-footed/denied dex CMD, trip CMD, disarm CMD {I think weapon enhancement bonus adds to that now?}, evade CMD). Feint/hoodwink adds one more CMD, though that replaces the sense-motive-or-similar which opposes feint in PF1. Just saying, that list of defence values is getting long.

That's the interesting challenge about assembling the system. There's always a temptation to cover every case (esp. in the situation of PF1, where there are so many "hidden rules" buried in supplements or the fine print or in places you wouldn't necessarily expect), but that does open the possibility of overkill.

We'll see how much is too much when we go into playtest. I've run a couple of sessions with partial rules for my local group but just at low level. We'll be trying some more stuff this Friday.

avr wrote:
I think the condition chains look good, tho' I'll need to take a look at the condition values post to be sure.

More coming soon!


Personally I like using the acrobatics to tumble. I just want to the DCs to be a little more reasonable like 15+creature CR(maybe + size mod). Without that the skill is almost useless especially with jump DCs so high.

Also was hoping you guys would get rid of CMD and just use AC as the base DC.

I do feel that a lot of things I have seen have added more complexity then was needed instead of streamlining things. If you change too much then it will no longer be usable with old 1e Pathfinder materials.


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Dragon78 wrote:

Personally I like using the acrobatics to tumble. I just want to the DCs to be a little more reasonable like 15+creature CR(maybe + size mod). Without that the skill is almost useless especially with jump DCs so high.

Also was hoping you guys would get rid of CMD and just use AC as the base DC.

I do feel that a lot of things I have seen have added more complexity then was needed instead of streamlining things. If you change too much then it will no longer be usable with old 1e Pathfinder materials.

Yeah - I gotta say I was initially very keen on the tightening and clarifying of PF1 rules. But the apparent addition of lots more rules has made me more hesitant...

It’s just me, but I was more hoping for that aforementioned ‘tightening’ of a pre-existing rule set. I’m not sure I have the energy or motivation to learn what looks more and more like a completely new rule set. Again, though - that’s just me. I can understand the desire to tear it down to the studs to build a dream product.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

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SunKing wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

Personally I like using the acrobatics to tumble. I just want to the DCs to be a little more reasonable like 15+creature CR(maybe + size mod). Without that the skill is almost useless especially with jump DCs so high.

Also was hoping you guys would get rid of CMD and just use AC as the base DC.

I do feel that a lot of things I have seen have added more complexity then was needed instead of streamlining things. If you change too much then it will no longer be usable with old 1e Pathfinder materials.

Yeah - I gotta say I was initially very keen on the tightening and clarifying of PF1 rules. But the apparent addition of lots more rules has made me more hesitant...

It’s just me, but I was more hoping for that aforementioned ‘tightening’ of a pre-existing rule set. I’m not sure I have the energy or motivation to learn what looks more and more like a completely new rule set. Again, though - that’s just me. I can understand the desire to tear it down to the studs to build a dream product.

We're at an interesting crossroads, in that we've long looked at this as a two-pronged approach to product creation. Corefinder was to be a tightening and streamlining of existing PFRPG, with Newfinder being the more wahoo "based on PFRPG but going off in very new directions."

That's still generally true, as a lot of what's in our rules is stuff that's been pulled in and streamlined from scattered sources all over the rule set. That includes consolidating things from skills and feats that had been gated abilities into universal combat maneuvers.

At the same time, it's true that we've introduced a fair amount of new stuff too, so it's reasonable to be hesitant if what you were looking for was something that would hew very closely to what PFRPG has been. That's a tough road to walk, as for many folks there's no point in making a slightly more polished PFRPG, since they already HAVE PFRPG right there in front of them, with multiple massive searchable SRDs and e-tools like HeroLab to find obscure rules.

How close is so close that the whole exercise is pointless, vs. how far is so far that it may as well be a whole new game? Nobody can say for sure, and the answer will be different for a lot of people. We'll see how people like what we've put together once we get to playtesting.


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I'm in the same boat as Sunking. I was initially very interested in the purported goals of Corefinder, which appeared to be to clarify, streamline, and simplify Pathfinder. I strongly believe that there's value in a game that jettisons annoying, hard to remember, unintuitive and unbalanced bits and bobs from Pathfinder, reducing the game to a balanced core set of rules that can be expanded upon.

More than once I've tried to do this task myself via house rules, but found 10+ pages of house rules plus the CRB was just too clunky to use.

Maybe there's not enough people like me to make streamlined-PF a viable product. But I know I'm definitely not interested in a system that tightens rules language but otherwise only adds MORE rules to PF1, a system already overflowing with stuff to know about and remember.

Not to say that I don't appreciate Legendary Games' effort in working on this. There are a lot of cool ideas here and I've been following along, always impressed by the Patreon reveals. The revised actions are so cleanly written that I stole some of the phrasing for my own homebrew :)


So what will we be looking at after the status ailments?

Silver Crusade

Dragon78 wrote:
So what will we be looking at after the status ailments?

From what I've heard, we're getting closer to the gear reveals.


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Can't wait to see gear rules.

So, are guys doing anything different with traits and favored class bonuses?

Will there be easier ways to get skills as class skills?

Are you changing the number of feats that a character gets?

Will there be more unarmored options for characters?


I see we are starting with light weapons(digest #56) Though I will wait for it to unlock.

Will this play test ever cover actual classes(or class features) or will that be another book?


Still not unlocked, hopefully by Monday.

Will you be changing starting money and/or wealth by level?

Since we are getting more ability points, are you changing and/or getting rid of stat increasing items?

Will we be able to get rid of cloaks of resistance?


To quickly answer those as best I can...

Don't actually know.
Yes (get rid of, I believe).
Yes.

Like many PF1 players and fans, we recognise that the game's numbers require the impact of stat items and save increase items, we'd much rather have those item slots available for actual flavourful items rather than "ooh, another +1 to some numbers on my sheet". Magic items should let you do cool magic things, not just be there to let you keep up with the monster stats.

And as a side-effect, anything that makes anti-magic easier to deal with at the table is a really good thing.


Ben Walklate wrote:
And as a side-effect, anything that makes anti-magic easier to deal with at the table is a really good thing.

Easiest way to deal with anti-magic: not have any.

It's a peculiar legacy of D&D's pseudo-scientism, and requires writing a bunch of parts of the game around a single spell/effect.

If you want something to stop spellcasters, have a field that prevents spellcasting. Don't require us to recalculate our numbers just because the game loves buffs (not to mention how annoying the Su/Ex split is).


I would love to get rid of anti-magic shell or at least make it a 9th level spell.

Would anyone be against having fewer 7-9th level spell slots per day but having a lot more low level(1st-3rd) spells? Do you really think having 10+ 1st level spells per day would be that bad? I am not just talking about full casters but all classes with at least some casting ability.


I looked at the simple weapon chart and was wondering what the critical (+9 to +10) actually mean?


Dragon78 wrote:
I looked at the simple weapon chart and was wondering what the critical (+9 to +10) actually mean?

There's a further preview coming along, but basically I think it's similar to PF2 in that if you exceed AC by that number, you threaten (or possibly crit... I don't remember for sure).

So, if you roll a natural 20*, it's a threat. Re-roll to confirm.
If your roll is AC+X, it's a threat. Re-roll to confirm. (I think.)

* I think there are still other ways for an increased threat range as traditional.


Dragon78 wrote:
I would love to get rid of anti-magic shell or at least make it a 9th level spell.

Thinking out loud. I'd go the opposite way. Make anti-magic slightly more common, perhaps as an augment or replacement for Spell Resistance. But make it so it's not absolute. For instance, maybe give it a saving throw. That would make a: more interesting characters, b: less extreme abuses.

Quote:
Would anyone be against having fewer 7-9th level spell slots per day but having a lot more low level(1st-3rd) spells? Do you really think having 10+ 1st level spells per day would be that bad? I am not just talking about full casters but all classes with at least some casting ability.

Pass.

As I level up, I very much look forward to those juicy new things. Remember, with the pyramid chart being what it is, you already get less high-level slots. Even if your campaign makes it to 20th, you still only have a very small number of 8th and 9th.


Quote:
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. ... Some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

So masterwork daggers have +1 damage but masterwork armor spikes don't, or is that just an oversight in the wording of one of the above?


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If masterwork weapons get a damage bonus then what does a +1 magic weapon get other then being "magic"?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I suppose you could have magic weapons start out at +2?

Or, the main purpose of a +1 weapon would be if you want to put some other enchantment on it without making the weapon +2.


Maybe they're getting rid of the "+X" bonuses?


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Maybe they're getting rid of the "+X" bonuses?

A 'gear bonus' has been referenced several times now, which I read as being something like an enhancement bonus and possibly just that renamed.


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20 days later and still nobody home.


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Looks like they will not be calling it "Corefinder", not sure what the new name will be, or why they are changing it.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
avr wrote:
SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Maybe they're getting rid of the "+X" bonuses?
A 'gear bonus' has been referenced several times now, which I read as being something like an enhancement bonus and possibly just that renamed.

Don't both PF2 and D&D 5E have "item bonuses"?


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Here is the latest Patreon post for the Corefinder project. Apparently they have decided to rename it, and this post from this past weekend is a poll to choose the new name.

So I am hoping that the next posting here from Legendary Games will be pointing us to a new thread for whatever they end up calling their new game.

Dark Archive

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I hope it will be called Legendfinder. Seems appropriate.


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I like Paths of Legend.


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"Moneyfinder";)


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Dragon78 wrote:
Looks like they will not be calling it "Corefinder", not sure what the new name will be, or why they are changing it.

Corefinder was never the end-product name. It was a working title, along with "Newfinder" being the working title for a theoretical next-generation game. Think of CF as just a placeholder until an actual name is found.

That said, not (public) decisions have been made yet. I'm 100% confident it's not AnguishFinder though.


Keyfinder?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think it'll be called Chemfinder.

Which sounds a bit like a rubbish Breaking Bad ripoff.


Chemfinder?

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