Battle of Tatzlford - Your experience


Kingmaker


I've finished the third book and my players, are cleaning up hexes in the East at the moment. But I'm kind of conflicted by the next step.

Tatlzford and Varnhold are already annexed. Civil war is brewing up north. They've met Irovetti and Mivon, among others, at the Outlaw Council months prior. I've turned Mivon as antagonist as I didn't want Pitax to be an obvious opponent and I'm running Irovetti as a despote who's afraid that the PC are the Nymph's puppets who wants to do her bidding, instead of being the puppet himself.

So far, so good. I've hinted at Nyrissa multiple times (more clues than the AP, plus Oracle of Time in my group wakes up near the House at the end of Time near her. They're super paranoid about her, they think Vordakai was a puppet and they don't know everything about the eyes and they think it's linked to Nyrissa.

But that also means that they're preparing for trouble. They have fortifications in all their cities, they have standing armies in all of them (protect the capital, protect from Mivon at the East and prepare for trouble up north in case of Civil War.) (Large human armies x 3)

Running the module as it is, would means that the attack on Tatlzford would fail miserably (which I can live with easily), but any hints pointing towards Pitax, I fear that it would means armies movement to take back Drelev right off the bat and forcing ahead towards Pitax for a confrontation, which would jeopardized a lot on how Chapter 4 and 5 play. Right now, i'm thinking a lot about a war of deception, having no mention of Pitax as they make Mivon as the sponsor behind the attack on Drelev and leave my PC grasping at straw while Mivon refute any involvement. I'd probably throw the tournament at the same time to confuse the PC even more with that invitation from Irovetti, after all they met him at the Outlaw Council and they know that diplomatic links exists. But since, those have major effects on the whole module, i'm a bit conflicted about all this.

I've read a bit on the boards, but I'd like feedback from the community, see how you ran it, and how your groups have reacted ? Any one had their group reacts with their armies at their back while dealing with Drelev ?


If you have the time, I strongly recommend to listen through Sugar-fuelled Gamers' Kingmaker Podcast. They made a lot of changes, especially in the later game.

What the GM - Reverse on these boards - does for a lot of army combat is move different enemy units towards the PCs' towns, forcing them to split their forces. You could do that, make it a little more difficult for them to defend their holdings.

Also, depending on what you're planning to do with Armag and his forces, you could simply increase the number of barbarian and troll mercenaties to give your players a good fight.

Concerning the PCs' counterattack against Drelev: I've built both neighboring realms from the ground up to give them more history, and even though I'm still years away from Book 4, Fort Dreleve is already racking up Defensive bonuses like there's no tomorrow. It's going to be really, really hard to defeat troops in a solidly built city. So if you build Fort Drelev right, the city isn't going to be a pushover - certainly not a case of just trampling over them on the way to Pitax.

That basically means your PCs will need to run through the Fort Drelev minigame in order to turn the population against Hannis Drelev in order to take the town without combat.


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I had similar thoughts as you, denigruer. I had used small troll armies back in Rivers Run Red, and the trolls ended up sacking Tatzylford. When the town was rebuilt it was with an eye towards defense. There was no way the scenario outlined in the adventure was going to work so I envisioned something bigger using the mass combat rules. I wrote down my thoughts on the adventure prior to running it here, and a recounting of how it all turned out starts here.

Basically, I had Brevoy invade the players' kingdom shortly after the attack on Tatzylford and before they could properly invade Drelev (hit them when they're weak!). The PCs managed to beat back Surtova's initial foray and then immediately put Drelev on the backburner to deal with the bigger threat.

When the players later met with Irovetti, he claimed that he had hired a mercenary army to sack Drelev, not their kingdom. They must have fallen under the sway of this "Armag" character and gone rogue, he told them. And they mostly bought it.

In your situation, you have a nice opening with Mivon being an antagonist. Mivon and Pitax are at odds over this border town Sarain that's off the southern end of the map, and don't like or trust one another (hmm, I thought I read that the town changed hands between the two kingdoms somewhere but now I can't find the reference). You could have Irovetti approach the PCs now and offer an alliance against their southern neighbor. He can befriend them before the invasion, and perhaps the players will be more likely to believe him when he blames the attack on Armag.


That's actually a super good idea. I must admit their sight are fixated on the North with the rumors of civil war. Might be a good idea to pull their armies up north and then have Drelev attack Tatzlford.

Might use that to divide their attention. Thanks for the feedback !


My group is going to be doing the Battle of Tatzylford next session. I too had to make some changes since, as mentioned, the army as described in the book is quite pitiful. My players would have probably just attacked the army themselves. Lucky for me, my players decided to go out looking for loot (literally how the fighter described it) and decided to wander into Drelev's demesne. In an effort to plant the hook, I had them come across the army (from a bit afar) as they were wandering in Drelev's area. I described the army as "at least 100 barbarians plus 6 trolls". The party's initial reaction was to attack, figuring a couple of fireballs would take out the humans and then they could focus on the trolls.

Luckily they decided to wait til morning (given in part that they were not technically in their own region and the army was thus, not actually obviously hostile yet). In the morning they started to head toward the army to talk to them (cooler heads starting to prevail) when they were stopped by a rear guard patrol of four visible barbarians. (4 more hiding in trees). PCs attacked (for some reason) and while they made fairly short work of the barbarians, they did learn that they were not total pushovers (I used the Tiger Lord NPC stats). This ultimately lead to me lifting the hood on the mass combat mechanics for this adventure (i.e. the condensed version). Essentially they realized that it would be difficult for the PCs to take on the army by themselves (assuming all the barbarians had 50ish HP) but were likewise concerned that the army would steamroll anything they had.

So in short, I'm compromising a bit. Telling the players that in general, PCs can't do a lot to affect an army in mass combat. Maybe not the most elegant solution, but one that works for now. The actual battle will be run fairly similarly as to how its printed, just that everything is bigger (bigger invading army, bigger town, bigger defending army, etc.). The players are discussing what measures to take and I'm leaving some of the options open for discussion as for instance, one player has already asked about using Wall of Stone to help build up the wall quickly. Essentially giving them back some agency in terms of tactics, etc. I'll update after we run the battle (on the 25th hopefully).


Ran the battle this weekend with the expanded numbers as indicated above.

Worked out pretty well. The different players had different ideas as to how they wanted to try to help prepare the town which was actually pretty good. The cleric summoned laborers to make traps, the mages cast walls of stone to help expedite the barricades. The fighter helped with the barricades figuring he could carry heavy stuff and give a few pointers to the defenders. The rogue scouted the woods and the helped select sniper positions in the trees. The Stryx monk flew aerial reconnaissance to look for the approaching army, etc.

In the end because of the early warning and some creative choices on the part of the party, I allowed them to make 5 preparations (barricades, snipers in trees, archers on bridge, traps, recruit wildlife), and the defenders ended up with slightly better stats than the attackers (1 higher in both OM and DV). First three rounds saw the defenders ahead 3-1 on VP and the party handled the trolls fairly well (with the exception of the wizard who took a full attack to the face and needed the cleric to use Breath of Life on her).

All in all it seemed to work well enough for the situation. The group felt as though they were able to contribute and given their positioning on the battlefield I was able to describe what different PCs were doing during the different stages of the battle and had the different PCs make different rolls, etc. Long-term, I'm not so sure how interesting the mass combat rules will be, but we will cross that bridge when the time comes.


Glad to hear it went well for your group - sounds like you had a fun game!

So far, my players are enjoying the mass combat rules. We're using the variant from Legendary Games' Ultimate Battle, and had a series of battles against Hargulka's forces. With the option of giving PCs either command of a unit, or adding them as heroes, every player gets to participate in the battle.

To me, commanding armies in battle is an important part of the feel of Kingmaker - having the PCs be more than just adventurers, but raising and commanding armies on the field of battle, with the fate of their realm and their people hanging in the balance.


Just to come around on that.

I finally resolved the issue by moving things around a little bit.
I've brought the Rushlight tournamement right away at the beginning of book 4. Since they had a bit more of a relationship with Irovetti, they were more eager to attend the tournamement than it would have been after book 4. They took it, line and sinker.

I didn't chance anything, they're a very capable group. They managed to win the tournament even if they were lower level. After the tournament, I had a courrier ride in with a message of the their advisor, stating that they had troop movement in the North (Brevoy and Restov) and not knowing the Advisor (the General was at the Tournamenet), they moved their armies to camp near their northern border as a show of strength.

On their way back to their capital, I had them met with the Numesti's daughter in the middle of the swamp. She was only hours in front of the assault on Tatlzford. They really felt the urgency to defend it.

It was perfect. Thanks for the input guys, you gave a couple of things to think about. They're playing commandos right now in Drelev, might plant the idea that Mivon is behind all of this.

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