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We were playing a Pathfinder Society game this past Saturday. Our silly rogue with a climb speed went over a wall and ended up engaging with some wights while we walked around. He died... dummy.
Here is the thing - he got turned into a wight. We killed the baddies (including our turned wight friend) and now we don't know if we can bring him back. He has enough fame (54 fame) to purchase a Resurrection Plan.
But can you resurrect him? Resurrection ritual requires "the target’s body to be present and relatively intact". Raise Dead says the same thing.
PFS Note All characters have access to resurrect
Cast 1 day; Cost diamonds worth a total value of 75 gp × the target’s level; Secondary Casters 2
Primary Check Religion (expert); Secondary Checks Medicine, Society
Range 10 feet; Target(s) 1 dead creature of up to 10th level
You attempt to call forth the target’s soul and return it to its body. This requires the target’s body to be present and relatively intact. The target must have died within the past year. If Pharasma has decided that the target’s time has come or the target doesn’t wish to return, this ritual automatically fails, but you discover this after the successful Religion check and can end the ritual without paying the cost.
Critical Success You resurrect the target. They return to life with full Hit Points and the same spells prepared and points in their pools they had when they died, and still suffering from any long-term debilitations of the old body. The target meets an agent of their deity during the resurrection who inspires them, granting them a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, Perception, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 week. The target is also permanently changed in some way by their time in the afterlife, such as gaining a slight personality shift, a streak of white in the hair, or a strange new birthmark.
Success As critical success, except the target returns to life with 1 Hit Point and no spells prepared or points in any pools, and still is affected by any long-term debilitations of the old body. Instead of inspiring them, the character’s time in the Boneyard has left them temporarily debilitated. The target is clumsy 1, drained 1, and enfeebled 1 for 1 week; these conditions can’t be removed or reduced by any means until the week has passed.
Failure Your attempt is unsuccessful.
Critical Failure Something goes horribly wrong—an evil spirit possesses the body, the body transforms into a special kind of undead, or some worse fate befalls the target.
Heightened (6th) You can resurrect a target of up to 12th level, and the base cost is 125 gp.
Heightened (7th) You can use resurrect even with only a small portion of the body; the ritual creates a new body on a success or critical success. The target must have died within the past decade. The ritual requires four secondary casters, each of whom must be at least half the target’s level. The target can be up to 14th level, and the base cost is 200 gp.
Heightened (8th) As 7th level, but the target can be up to 16th level and the base cost is 300 gp.
Heightened (9th) You can use resurrect even without the body as long as you know the target’s name and have touched a portion of its body at any time. The target must have died within the past century, and it doesn’t gain the negative conditions on a success. The ritual requires eight secondary casters, each of whom must be at least half the target’s level. The target can be up to 18th level, and the base cost is 600 gp.
[/b]Heightened (10th) [/b]As 9th level, except it doesn’t matter how long ago the target died. The ritual requires 16 secondary casters, each of whom must be at least half the target’s level. The target can be up to 20th level, and the ritual’s base cost is 1,000 gp.
PFS Note All characters have access to raise dead
Traditions divine
Cast 10 minutes (material, somatic, verbal); Cost diamonds worth a total value of the target's level (minimum 1) x 200 gp
Range 10 feet; Targets 1 dead creature of 13th level or lower
You attempt to call forth the dead creature's soul, requiring the creature's body to be present and relatively intact. The creature must have died within the past 3 days. If Pharasma has decided that the creature's time has come (at the GM's discretion), or if the creature doesn't wish to return to life, this spell automatically fails, but the diamonds aren't consumed in the casting.
If the spell is successful, the creature returns to life with 1 Hit Point, no spells prepared or spell slots available, no points in any pools or any other daily resources, and still with any long-term debilitations of the old body. The time spent in the Boneyard leaves the target temporarily debilitated, making it clumsy 2, drained 2, and enfeebled 2 for 1 week; these conditions can't be removed or reduced by any means until the week has passed. The creature is also permanently changed by its time in the afterlife, such as a slight personality shift, a streak of white in the hair, or a strange new birthmark.
Heightened (7th) The maximum level of the target increases to 15. The cost increases to the target's level (minimum 1) × 400 gp.
Heightened (8th) The maximum level the target increases to 17. The cost increases to the target's level (minimum 1) × 800 gp.
Heightened (9th) The maximum level of the target increases to 19. The cost increases to the target's level (minimum 1) × 1,600 gp.
Heightened (10th) The maximum level the target increases to 21. The cost increases to the target's level (minimum 1) × 3,200 gp.
Creatures with the undead trait are "destroyed" at 0 Hit Points. Someone argued this just meant they skipped the "dying" stages, but all NPCs do that anyway. The GM concluded that we brought back a pile of his ashes.
So I guess the first question is Do we have a body? If we do then the way forward is simple. Resurrection works. If his undead body was destroyed, however, we have issues.
Also, Someone pointed out later that weekend that Resurrection ritual can be used without a body when heightened enough. At 7th level you only need a small portion. At 9th level you don't need anything. And Resurrection plan does not specify the level it is cast at. If you were level 11 or above then I would assume it would automatically be heightened, or else it wouldn't work. He was level 5 when he died.
So the second question is What level is Resurrection Ritual cast at in PFS?
We really like to go by RAW and official clarifications as much as possible. Since it's PFS reducing table variation is pretty important. I say this b/c really I want to avoid discussing opinions and house rules are not a thing at all.
Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any constructive replies!
I think you've laid out a straight forward case, and rather then speculate my opinion on such matters I will hit the FAQ button for you so you can try to get an official resolution.
As it sits there are two questions which are not clearly answered by the rules and need official adjudication.
Edit: Oh b$*~*~*s. I forgot the PF2 forum doesn't have the FAQ button.
Best of luck to you.
It does seem to me that you would get a better response in the PFS forum though.
Agreed, destroyed doesn't always mean that the body is unrecoverable. Zombies don't explode when you slash them down.
If you burned a mummy there will be less to bring back for resurrection, but bodies don't just disappear because they were 'undeadified'.
About resurrection working, I'd guess it does the same as it did in PF1, primarily for lore reasons.
I think you've laid out a straight forward case, and rather then speculate my opinion on such matters I will hit the FAQ button for you so you can try to get an official resolution.
As it sits there are two questions which are not clearly answered by the rules and need official adjudication.
Edit: Oh b$*$%#*s. I forgot the PF2 forum doesn't have the FAQ button.
Best of luck to you.
It does seem to me that you would get a better response in the PFS forum though.
Thanks for the advice. I will take it and repost this in the PFS forums.
A lot of good questions raised here. The only one I have a strong view on is on undead being destroyed at 0hp: I definitely understand this as clarifying that undead always and automatically die at 0hp, unlike other NPCs, who can use the dying rules at the GM's discretion. I wouldn't interpret undead being destroyed as the body of an undead creature being destroyed. "Destroyed" is just a substitute for "killed" because strictly speaking an undead creature isn't alive.
Agreed, destroyed doesn't always mean that the body is unrecoverable. Zombies don't explode when you slash them down.
If you burned a mummy there will be less to bring back for resurrection, but bodies don't just disappear because they were 'undeadified'.About resurrection working, I'd guess it does the same as it did in PF1, primarily for lore reasons.
I agree, mostly. But I can also see how someone could interpret this as the body disintegrating without the negative energy that animated it – or perhaps as a byproduct of that energy failing. And because of the slight ambiguity we are in a pickle. B/Cthe GM ruled that way in the moment the rogue was given the “dead” status on his sheet.
If we can find a rule or clarification that directly negates that then we can retro and just proceed as normal. Otherwise we need to figure out if we can use a 7th level or 9th level resurrection ritual with the fame or not.
Many months ago, when trying to figure out how bad damage to your equipment was, I could only find one definition for "destroyed" which was basically "broken + you can't repair it." So obviously the main thing is that destroyed undead can't be repaired. That makes sense, right? Otherwise everyone's gluing their skeletons back together.
Note that the same term (destroyed) applies to constructs, undead, and equipment. Stone golems shouldn't turn to ash, so it would be really weird if it meant anything other than "killed except the thing wasn't actually alive" in this context.
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As an additional note, there is some circumstantial evidence from Age of Ashes that suggests undead can be the target of resurrection magic after being destroyed.