Need a ruling on 1-00.


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Is it permissible to apply the Chronicle sheet for this scenario, which is done with pregens, to a character at a later time? I was told by my GM when I played this that I could apply the rewards for this adventure to one of my own characters, either immediately or when they reached 5th level. I have done this. Now there is controversy about this on the Organized Play discord, and I need to know if I've done right or wrong. And, if wrong, what I can do to resolve this. Thank you.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

It needs to be applied immediately. see GM thread

Note that the general rules would allow you to wait, but since the chronicle specifically says it can be assigned to any level 1-5, and the pregenerated credit rules say to apply chronicles in the order they are played then that means if you assign it to a level 1-5, it gets applied immediately.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Okay, how do I get the chronicle deleted from my character? I'm totally confused on what to do here, so I guess I'll just cut my losses and pretend it never happened.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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redeux is incorrect. The Chronicle needs to be assigned immediately, not applied immediately.

Guide to Organized Play wrote:

Apply a Chronicle: Applying a Chronicle sheet means filling out all of its information and modifying your character’s information accordingly. This typically happens at the same time you assign a Chronicle sheet, though there are some exceptions (See Applying Chronicle Sheets after the Session Ends)

Assign a Chronicle: Assigning a Chronicle sheet means picking which character gets it. This is typically done when you enter your information on the reporting sheet for the event.

This is further backed up from the section on Pregenerated characters:

Guide to Organized Play wrote:
You may apply a pregenerated character’s Chronicle sheet to one of your Pathfinder Society characters once your Pathfinder Society character reaches the level of the pregenerated character used to play through it. For example, if you played a 5th-level pregenerated character, you would apply the credit once your character reaches 5th level.

You can hold the Chronicle until your PC reaches Level 5, if that is what you wish to do, or the level they're currently at (which isn't normally the case), or apply it to a Level 1.

Three different options.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Apparently, this particular chronicle sheet has wording that is being interpreted as requiring immediate application.

Quote:
Special: This adventure was designed for use with pregenerated characters. You can assign this Chronicle sheet to any character of levels 1–5 who does not already have a copy of this Chronicle sheet.

Grand Lodge 4/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Columbia

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That means assigned. I assigned my 1-00 Chronicle Sheet for GMing the scenario at Gen Con 2019 to my -2001. When he reached L5 it kicked into application. I could have assigned it to my -2002 and applied it immediately at L1 with L1 rewards. Obviously I chose to assign for application at a later date.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I was told the same thing as Thomas Keller was when I played through it: I needed to apply it immediately to the assigned character. And since I didn't know any better at the time, I did.

As Nefreet, Xathos and others have pointed out, that is simply wrong. All that the "Special:" provision from the chronicle sheet modifies compared to the Guide to Organized Play is the level range of the character you can assign the sheet to. Normally, you can only assign a chronicle sheet earned by playing a pregen to a character currently lower in level than the pregen, i.e. in this example levels 1-4. However, the "Special:" provision allows you to assign it to a level 5 character as well (the likely reason being that unlike with normal pregens you are explictly prohibited from playing this scenario with a non-pregen, even if you have one at level 5)

All this is merely about *assigning* the sheet, i.e. declaring which of your characters is eventually going to receive the credit.

According to the guide, you actually only *apply* the sheet, i.e. your previously assigned character receives the boons, xp, gold, etc. once your character reaches the level of the pregen used to play the scenario (or you could alternatively choose to apply it to a level 1 character, but you'd still only get access to the boons once you've reached level 5).

Technically, contrary to what Thomas and I (and I'm sure many others) have been told, there is actually no provision in the scenario or on the chronicle that would even allow (and much less require) you to apply the chronicle to any character of levels 2-4, as that part of the guide is not modified anywhere here. However, there was apparently an announcement at GenCon 2019 where this scenario debuted that applying it to a lower-level character was allowed. There's probably an official post somewhere confirming that.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

So how are we parsing the PFS guide rule that chronicles must be applied in the order they are played?

PFS guide .9 wrote:
Apply the Chronicle sheets for eligible adventures in the order in which they were played. For each one, add the rewards earned (Experience Points, gold pieces, Fame, boons etc.) to your character, along with any negative effects that weren’t removed from the pregenerated character. This character is also now able to buy any items listed on that Chronicle sheet.

Normally you couldn't apply the chronicle because you are out of tier range, but here it can be assigned to any tier 1-5, and then the PFS guide tells you to apply chronicles in the order they are played. It's an eligible scenario so it would need to be applied immediately.

That's the argument I've seen for needing to be applied immediately though I'd be happy to hear that this is being parsed incorrectly

As far applying to any level, it's mentioned in the product discussion thread that it can be applied to level 1,2,3, or 4 characters as well.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Yeah, that's my understanding too. You can assign it to any character in the range 1-5, and it can also be applied to any character in that range. Since it can be applied, and you must apply chronicles in the order you receive them, you therefore have to apply this one immediately.

2/5 5/5 *****

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I was told by John Compton at GenCon last year the to write the chronicle up as the level 5 version for people to hold until they reached it, unless they asked to have it reduced to a lower level. (1-3 based on if they already has a 2e character (using play test points for their higher levels, I don't think there were enough GenCon slots to fit in 1-01 through 1-03 to level up organically before the 1-00 special slot. But level 4 would be possible outside of GenCon).

In regards to the rule that reduex is quoting, I'd say that the choice of whether to take the chronicle at the pre-gen level, or to mark it down to the character level, is a choice that once made determines when it becomes an eligible adventure to apply.

Under that same section of the guide:

PFS2 Guide Player Basics wrote:


You can apply credit from a higher-tier adventure to a 1st-level Pathfinder Society character. When doing so, you gain only the gold appropriate to a 1st-level character. You do not benefit from any boons until your Pathfinder Society character reaches the minimum level listed on the Chronicle sheet, unless otherwise noted.

The word 'can' is the important word IMO. You aren't forced (in the non 1-00 case) to reduce it to a level 1 chronicle if you play a level 3 pregen, and have a level 1 character.

Scarab Sages 4/5

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So this is an example of the type of question that is PFS specific and should have a direct and simple answer. It very much looks, however, like this is quickly turning into 2E’s version of Masters of the Fallen Fortress. For years, people argued over what level characters could play that module. And for years we couldn’t get a straight answer from the campaign. So you had a lot of people allowing it to be played once at 2nd level, like any other level 1 module. And a lot of people only allowing level 1s. It is not an exaggeration to say that went on for years, off and on cropping up and sparking a forum argument multiple times during that span. (The answer is level 1s only, which we finally got indirectly in a blog).

Which is to say, Tonya, Linda, Michael, or whoever knows the answer to this question, please post so this argument doesn’t drag out endlessly. (It’s the weekend, so I wouldn’t expect it until sometime during the week, and with origins/concurrent so close, who knows).

I have 1-00 applied to a level 3 character, because that was how my GM understood it to work. Right now it isn’t a big deal if I need to change that. The main difference it would make is my character won’t level after the scenario I play today. But if I need to make a correction, I’d rather do it now when I only have one or two other chronicles to change instead of half a dozen or more.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Race Dorsey wrote:
So how are we parsing the PFS guide rule that chronicles must be applied in the order they are played?

That has nothing to do with the discussion.

That's for when, say, you played three scenarios over the course of a month with a 3rd Level Pregen, and a month later your actual character reaches the appropriate Level to receive credit.

You then apply them in chronological order.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

So, since the relevant sections have been quoted, what part, exactly, is being debated?

Scarab Sages 4/5

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People are reading the relevant sections and coming to different conclusions. Which is always what happens when the campaign doesn’t make a direct statement like “If you play 1-00 and assign it to a level 3 character, you apply the chronicle immediately with level 3 rewards.” Or “you hold the chronicle until level 5 and apply it then.” Barring something that direct, how the chronicle is applied will continue to depend on how an individual GM interprets the stuff that’s been quoted. Which means table variation on what should be a simple question.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

But, you clearly have three options here.

Normally you only have two.

How are people arguing against that?

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I believe the problem exists because the language used in the scenario about how to handled the chronicle is now different from what the guide says.

In cases like this, we should follow the guide because the guide is the most recent ruling provided from Org Play Leadership.

Nefreet has provided correct information. The information in the scenario is outdated and we should follow the guide.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Nefreet wrote:

But, you clearly have three options here.

Normally you only have two.

How are people arguing against that?

I missed the link to Michael’s message in the product discussion. That definitely helps clear up whether or not it can be applied to a 2-4th level character. It would be great if it could be put in a more obvious place, but at least it’s there. The confusion now would be a result of people not finding that message, but yes, having it to point to is good, and it is the kind of direct answer I was looking for (it just should probably be in the Guide or the faq to be most helpful, and to me is the kind of thing that should be communicated to all of the VOs).


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

But, you clearly have three options here.

Normally you only have two.

How are people arguing against that?

Wait, what three options? Super confused.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Gary Bush wrote:

I believe the problem exists because the language used in the scenario about how to handled the chronicle is now different from what the guide says.

In cases like this, we should follow the guide because the guide is the most recent ruling provided from Org Play Leadership.

Nefreet has provided correct information. The information in the scenario is outdated and we should follow the guide.

While I agree that the Guide should be the default location to begin searching for any Organized Play answer, it can't be the final place to look for everything.

There have always been exceptions present in scenarios. The Guide can't possibly cover every one.

If the Guide, for example, told us that the default Reputation reward for a Faction-specific scenario was +2, but the Conclusion of #1-42: Hitchhikers Conundrum told us that the Earth Mk. II Faction gets +3, the scenario overrides the Guide.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Thomas Keller wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

But, you clearly have three options here.

Normally you only have two.

How are people arguing against that?

Wait, what three options? Super confused.

Normally, you only have two options:

• Assign the Chronicle to a PC less than Level 5. Apply it when they reach Level 5.
• Assign and apply the Chronicle to a Level 1 PC.

The scenario opens up a third option:

• Assign and apply the Chronicle to a PC of Levels 1-5.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

So if you had a Level 3 PC, as many of us did when this scenario was released, you could assign and apply it at that moment.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Nefreet wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

I believe the problem exists because the language used in the scenario about how to handled the chronicle is now different from what the guide says.

In cases like this, we should follow the guide because the guide is the most recent ruling provided from Org Play Leadership.

Nefreet has provided correct information. The information in the scenario is outdated and we should follow the guide.

While I agree that the Guide should be the default location to begin searching for any Organized Play answer, it can't be the final place to look for everything.

There have always been exceptions present in scenarios. The Guide can't possibly cover every one.

If the Guide, for example, told us that the default Reputation reward for a Faction-specific scenario was +2, but the Conclusion of #1-42: Hitchhikers Conundrum told us that the Earth Mk. II Faction gets +3, the scenario overrides the Guide.

If they want to modify the PDF of the scenario that would be even better. The language in the scenario says “assign” not “apply.” The only place that makes it clear you can apply it is Michael’s post, which is clearly not that easy to find or well known or we wouldn’t be here. Answers to questions being strewn across obscure places on the forum was also an issue in 1E. GMs probably should look at the product threads before running, but they don’t always. And VOs definitely don’t always before answering. And, to make things worse, searching on the Org Play forums wont find that thread. It might find this one now, but even then the answer was buried at the end of a long post by someone who is not obviously campaign leadership. And I swear I clicked on that link when I first read it and it took me to a different post on the thread (which was probably just a Paizo board issue or my browser, not that the link changed).

Scarab Sages 4/5

For the record:

Michael Sayre wrote:
Avram Suson wrote:
numbat1 wrote:
Avram Suson wrote:
I am confused about how we're supposed to award the credit for this scenario. The chronicle says it can be rewarded for levels 1-5, but they only show gold for level 5. Should we be awarding level 5 gold to level 1 characters? Or is the amount supposed to be different?
At Gen Con we were informed that players could opt to save it for L5 and use the treasure table as written or apply it immediately at L1 in which case the treasure is 1.4 GP per treasure bundle (this is the standard L1 treasure) or 14 GP if all 10 treasure bundles are found.

Thanks for the information! That definitely helps a lot and will make it easier to run.

However, are you saying that they could gain more money from playing as level 1 and getting all treasure bundles than if they played at level 5? Or does the level 5 gold count as per treasure bundle?

Since gold is determined by character level, we no longer list the total gold for the scenario; instead we provide a table right before the Chronicle sheet that shows you the per bundle value for treasure bundles at that level, and then you simply multiply that by the number of treasure bundles the party actually finds. The section immediately below that table should call out any easily missed or tricky bundles.

Unfortunately, we lost the 1-4 table entries for this scenario (likely an accidental last minute "clean up" since this is only intended for play with 5th level pregens), but if you have any of our other scenarios, you can pull the treasure bundle values from those when applying the Chronicle to a level 1, 2, 3, or 4 character.
If you don't have another scenario to check that table, the numbers are:
1 - 1.4 gp
2 - 2.2 gp
3 - 3.8 gp
4 - 6.4 gp

We should have a full table for these values added to the guide in the near future, and I'll look into seeing if we can get the table in this PDF updated appropriately.

So Michael’s post makes it clear that you can apply it at different levels. He never directly stated that you can also hold it, but that is the normal rule, and nothing says you can’t for this scenario. Also, he’s replying to a message in which someone else stated that they were told at GenCon that you can hold it until level 5. Since Michael doesn’t correct that, it appears that is good information as well.

Which all taken together leaves things where Nefreet has stated they are.

EDIT: Also note that Michael acknowledges a mistake in the scenario in the chart that lists rewards. Again, I don’t own the scenario, so I’m going off what people have quoted from it. If the scenario only lists level 5 rewards, it’s pretty easy to see a GM interpreting that as only being able to be applied to a level 5 character (or level 1 through the normal rule). If they haven’t/aren’t going to correct an error in the actual scenario, then it’s even more important that information is somewhere that it can be easily found without a lengthy search over the Paizo site.

LINK to Michael’s post again just to keep everything in one place. (And now that’s taking me to the top of the product page again. Be sure to scroll down if it does that for you).

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Your URL has some extra text breaking the link.

HERE it is.

EDIT: okay I'm having the same bad luck. Try THIS one?

Scarab Sages 4/5

Thanks. I just did a copy from the link in redeux's post upthread. I should have tried pulling it directly from the product thread. Both of your links work for me on my computer, at least. Who knows about phones.

5/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Captain, Vermont—Peacham

The other question I have regarding 1-00 is if it is possible to play your own level 5 character through the adventure or must we use a pregen even if we have an available character?

2/5 5/5 *****

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I've been told its pre-gen only. But I can't find any ruling to quote to back that up. The 'how to play' section says 'Origin of the Open Road is a Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 5th-level pregenerated
characters (Tier 5)'. Perhaps it should have had 'exclusively' or 'only' in that sentence to be more clear.

Sovereign Court ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I played 1-00 last October at Nuke Con with John Compton as GM. He told us at that time we had the option to hold the chronicle until our characters were lvl 5, which at least some of the table did. I know he had just moved over to Starfinder at the time, but I also would trust his knowledge of the intent.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Bill Tobin wrote:
The other question I have regarding 1-00 is if it is possible to play your own level 5 character through the adventure or must we use a pregen even if we have an available character?

I am pretty sure the adventure says it is for 5th level pre-gen characters only.

This may change in the future.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Benjamin Debrick wrote:
I played 1-00 last October at Nuke Con with John Compton as GM. He told us at that time we had the option to hold the chronicle until our characters were lvl 5, which at least some of the table did. I know he had just moved over to Starfinder at the time, but I also would trust his knowledge of the intent.

Were you at the the charity table with John?

That was a fun to watch!

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