Backpacks and other Inventory Containers Bulk


Rules Discussion


The rule for how much a PC can carry is:-

Quote:
You can’t hold or carry more Bulk than 10 plus your Strength modifier.Pg 272

A inventory container allows you to carry more.

For example a Belt pouch: "A belt pouch holds up to four items of light Bulk."

So would it be reasonable to say your new amount you can "hold on to" is:-

10.4 plus your Strength modifier


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Remember that you can subtract 2 Bulk from the total of what's in your Backpack


willot wrote:

The rule for how much a PC can carry is:-

Quote:
You can’t hold or carry more Bulk than 10 plus your Strength modifier.Pg 272

A inventory container allows you to carry more.

For example a Belt pouch: "A belt pouch holds up to four items of light Bulk."

So would it be reasonable to say your new amount you can "hold on to" is:-

10.4 plus your Strength modifier

No. That's just the total amount that can fit inside the container. You add the container plus everything in it to your bulk. Except that a backpack allows you to ignore the first two bulk in it as mentioned above.


Ok I should Clarify the rule is :-

Quote:
You can carry an amount of Bulk equal to 5 plus your Strength modifier without penalty; if you carry more, you gain the encumbered condition. You can’t hold or carry more Bulk than 10 plus your Strength modifier.

There are TWO parts to encumbrance

(i) The total amount you can carry (I am uninterested in this)
(ii) The amount you can PHYSICALLY HOLD on to. (this is what im asking, can this amount be increased?)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Not without increasing your Strength score
Or using a Bag Of Holding


willot wrote:

Ok I should Clarify the rule is :-

Quote:
You can carry an amount of Bulk equal to 5 plus your Strength modifier without penalty; if you carry more, you gain the encumbered condition. You can’t hold or carry more Bulk than 10 plus your Strength modifier.

There are TWO parts to encumbrance

(i) The total amount you can carry (I am uninterested in this)
(ii) The amount you can PHYSICALLY HOLD on to. (this is what im asking, can this amount be increased?)

How could you hold it without carrying it? I'm confused as to your goal.


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Backpack (can carry up to 4 bulk, first 2 bulk dont count

So the bit about can carry up to 4 bulk serves no purpose? As this limiting factor would then be taken care of by the 10 plus your Strength modifier rule.
Other than the fact without it you could say your entire inventory is in your backpack but mechanically it would make no difference.

It may end up being a homebrew thing


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

No matter what your Total Bulk (10+ST mod), you can't put your entire inventory in your backpack if it is more than 4 Bulk.

Anything beyond 4 Bulk has to be carried in your hand or in a sheath or in a bag or bandolier.


willot wrote:


Backpack (can carry up to 4 bulk, first 2 bulk dont count

So the bit about can carry up to 4 bulk serves no purpose? As this limiting factor would then be taken care of by the 10 plus your Strength modifier rule.
Other than the fact without it you could say your entire inventory is in your backpack but mechanically it would make no difference.

It may end up being a homebrew thing

It serves the purpose of telling you that you can't put more than 4 bulk of stuff inside a backpack. So yes, if you are carrying more than 4 bulk of stuff, you need to buy other containers.

"Can carry up to 4 bulk" has nothing to do with how much you can carry, that's how much the backpack can carry. Meaning, the maximum amount you can put in it.


Aratorin wrote:
How could you hold it without carrying it? I'm confused as to your goal.

You have a weight limit (amount of bulk you can carry in total)

You have a Size Limit (amount you can HOLD on to or "juggle")

FOr Example
A 10 foot ladder has a bulk of 3
A Longsword's bulk is 1

But a ladder weights less than a steel longsword

So why is a ladder's bulk larger?
Because its bulky
Bulk isnt just equal to weight
and of course you can't fit a 10 foot ladder in a back pack


willot wrote:
Aratorin wrote:
How could you hold it without carrying it? I'm confused as to your goal.

You have a weight limit (amount of bulk you can carry in total)

You have a Size Limit (amount you can HOLD on to or "juggle"

FOr Example
A 10 foot ladder has a bulk of 3
A Longsword's bulk is 1

But a ladder weights less than a steel longsword

So why is a ladder's bulk larger?
Because its bulky
Bulk isnt just equal to weight

Right, but weight and size have been abstracted into bulk specifically so you don't have to care about that. You can put the ladder in a backpack.

It simplifies Encumbrance so you can focus on playing the game.


But can you put a 10 foot ladder in a back pack?

Hence the 10+strength rule they added for bulk.

It isnt a perfect system.

But I do like the idea of containers allowing you to carry a bit more..


willot wrote:

But can you put a 10 foot ladder in a back pack?

Hence the 10+strength rule they added for bulk.

It isnt a perfect system.

But I do like the idea of containers allowing you to carry a bit more..

We can move it to the houserules forum if you want? Or were you just misunderstanding how the system works.

As is it is two elements:
- Caps to how much you can carry. (5+str and 10+str)
- Containers for you to carry things in that allow you to reach those caps outside of using your hands

As for things like ladders, it is in part up to a GM to rule logic when necessary and there are multiple examples of this in the book regarding bulk and bulk changing when needed(the infinite negligible item example comes to mind).

It is there as an abstraction so that more people use the system in play and less people outright ignore it like in PF1e, in my experience this has been a success both in PF2e and Starfinder.


I think move it to house rules

Sovereign Court

willot wrote:

But I do like the idea of containers allowing you to carry a bit more..

I do too, and I figured why stop at just the backpack?

So how about this: When items are properly stored away in carriers, such as backpacks, bandoliers, belt pouches, sacks, satchels, and sheaths, only half of their bulk is counted against your bulk limit.

This format explains that the backpack doesn't give the first 2 Bulk for free , it reduces all the Bulk in the backpack to half for carrying purposes. (If you only have 2 bulk in it, it now counts as 1 bulk. not 0, and if you have the max 4 bulk capacity, it now counts as 2). Further, it gives the same ability to other carrying equipment, and explains why all the sample character class kits (seen on pg289) spent their starting money on pouches, sheaths, bandoliers, etc.

Shadow Lodge

Samurai wrote:
willot wrote:

But I do like the idea of containers allowing you to carry a bit more..

I do too, and I figured why stop at just the backpack?

So how about this: When items are properly stored away in carriers, such as backpacks, bandoliers, belt pouches, sacks, satchels, and sheaths, only half of their bulk is counted against your bulk limit.

This format explains that the backpack doesn't give the first 2 Bulk for free , it reduces all the Bulk in the backpack to half for carrying purposes. (If you only have 2 bulk in it, it now counts as 1 bulk. not 0, and if you have the max 4 bulk capacity, it now counts as 2). Further, it gives the same ability to other carrying equipment, and explains why all the sample character class kits (seen on pg289) spent their starting money on pouches, sheaths, bandoliers, etc.

The backpack rule was an errata that was issued when people realized the unencumbered bulk limits were a bit too low for most characters. I'm assuming they wanted to keep it as simple as possible and they figured the -2 for the backpack (plus the waterskin errata) was enough (it seems to work well in my experience).

Grand Lodge

Aratorin wrote:
You can put the ladder in a backpack

Not at my game table you can't. Sorry

Silver Crusade

But you can strap it to it.


Rysky wrote:
But you can strap it to it.

Thank you for this common sense.

That is mechanically the same as putting it inside it. I was going to clarify that in my original post, but I was really just hoping nobody would come along and say "nuh uh!"

Oh well, we can dream.

The entire point of simplifying the Bulk rules was to make them more usable. I never played PF1, but I can tell you in 2.0/3.0/3.5 nobody I ever met actually used the Encumbrance Rules, because they were complicated, not fun, and honestly, who cares?

We've been living in a hammerspace world for over 30 years now. It's just accepted so you can get on with the game.

We don't track urine or bowl movements either.

Though with the popularity of more and more intricate "life simulators", by 3E we very well may be...

Silver Crusade

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I did use the encumbrance rules, and don't really care for Bulk, but it's a lot less confusing* to me to think of them as inventory slots.

*confusing in that it doesn't make sense, not in that I don't understand it.

Grand Lodge

Rysky wrote:
But you can strap it to it.

That depends on the ladder. Generally speaking, I’m not going to let a PC strap a 10ft-long(?) ladder to their backpack and not think that’s going to creat some impairments to their mobility. YMMV

Encumbrance is generally hand-waived up to the point when a player decides to take advantage of it. The full plate wearing martial carrying a glaive/halberd/guisarme with a great axe, great sword, earthbreaker, composite longbow, 100 arrows, and an alchemist’s lab is simply not believable, IMO. When that starts to happen, I start looking at encumbrance again.


Dooo deee dooo humm filling out my drow assassin rogue I got to the equipment and bulk. thoughts were to carry 2 fighting daggers 2 throwing daggers, blowgun and darts and a whip. my rogues only 4ft 2 inches at 70 lbs. with a strength of 10 no bonuses. so 2 fighting daggers 2 throwing daggers make 4 light weapons carried on person how many lights make 1 bulk at 10 strength I get 10 bulk right? leather armor 1 bulk 5 light for daggers and dartgun least darts I still have backpack and food to carry how do find a chart or the data needed to play?


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
XXSUPERHEROXX wrote:
Dooo deee dooo humm filling out my drow assassin rogue I got to the equipment and bulk. thoughts were to carry 2 fighting daggers 2 throwing daggers, blowgun and darts and a whip. my rogues only 4ft 2 inches at 70 lbs. with a strength of 10 no bonuses. so 2 fighting daggers 2 throwing daggers make 4 light weapons carried on person how many lights make 1 bulk at 10 strength I get 10 bulk right? leather armor 1 bulk 5 light for daggers and dartgun least darts I still have backpack and food to carry how do find a chart or the data needed to play?

It takes 10 light items to equal 1 bulk, round down (so 1 bulk 9 light items is treated as only 1 bulk).

Based on your description, it looks like your character's breakdown would be as follows:

1.0 - leather armor
1.0 - whip
0.2 - daggers (2)
0.2 - throwing knives (2)
0.1 - blow gun
0.1 - darts, blow gun (single set of 10)
0.0 - backpack (0.1 if not worn)
0.0 - clothes, common
------
2.6, rounded down to 2.

You can carry up to and including 5 + Strength modifier in total bulk without penalty. Or up to and including 10 + Strength modifier with penalties. You cannot carry more than 10 + Strength modifier.

This means you can carry an additional 3.3 bulk with no penalties, or an additional 5.3 bulk if you place 2 bulk of items in your backpack.

I hope that helps!


Also, with modest investment in Athletics and a Skill Feat, Hefty Hauler, you can carry an additional 2 bulk. Also, Sleeves of Storage and Wigs of Holding let you carry more.


you have 5ish bulk to play with for additional gear like food, class equipment, and incidentals.

1.4 additional bulk can be ignored by your backpack, then another 3.9 bulk gets your personal weight up to 5.9 bulk. one more light item after that and you'll be encumbered.

also, nice necro

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