Hello, please help me optimise my 9th level Fighter


Advice


Hello, everyone. I have almost no experience with PF and, as title suggest, I need some help with optimizing my character.
He's 9th level Human Fighter, have standart 46.000 gp and 20 points for point-buy.
At this point I came to this build, race and ability score adjustment already icluded (+2 Str; +1 Str; +1 Con):
20 Str
14 Dex
16 Con
7 Int
11 Wis
8 Cha

Feats are:
Combat Reflexes
Improved Critical Scimitar
Improved Initiative
Iron Will
Weapon Focus Scimitar
Weapon Specialization Scimitar
Greater Weapon Focus Scimitar
Stand Still
Critical Focus
Shield Focus
Greater Shield Focus

And I have no idea what magic items i should choose.

I want him to be really tanky while dealing good damage with crits.

Thank you in advance!


Lets start with Advanced Weapon and Advance Armor Training.

Advanced Armor Training: Armor Specialization (Plate Mail), or Adaptable Training, or Armored Juggernaut. I lean towards Specialization for this build since it adds +2 AC and improves every 4 levels. Adaptable Training because this character is woefully short on skills. Armored Juggernaut should be selected later, hopefully you'll be able to afford adamantine armor to go with it.

Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior Spirit. Hands down the best of the advanced trainings, especially combined with Gloves of Dueling (detailed later). Honorable mention to Armed Bravery which should be your next selection.

Equipment:

Gloves of Dueling. This is effectively +2 to hit and damage for your scimitar. Also it takes Warrior's Spirit from +2 2/day to +4 4/day. Totally worth the 15,000gp.

Ring of Protection +1 for 2,000gp.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2,000gp.

+2 Full Plate armor for 5,650gp.

+2 heavy steel shield for 4,170gp.

Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.

+1 scimitar for 2,315gp.

The remaining gold...
The offensive choice would be a Belt of Giant Strength +2 for 4k gold.

My actual recommendation would be for a Headband of Vast Intelligence to help with the character's skill point problem. Outside of combat this fighter is dead weight. Raising int by 2 and adding 1 skill at full ranks helps a lot.

and spend the rest of your change on non-magical exploration gear. Save at least 100gp in cash to handle expenses.


Can you tell me what choices are fixed and what are flexible? Have you been playing with this character for a while, or will you be starting at level 9?

Serterstas wrote:
I want him to be really tanky while dealing good damage with crits.

That's a start:

1 Ranger 1: Freebooter, Estoc, Weapon Focus Estoc, BAB+1

Even Level 1 Rangers can use Magic Wands with Ranger Spells, and there is a Level 1 Ranger Spell called Lead Blades that make your weapons inflict damage as if they were 1 size bigger then they actually are.

An Estoc is a 1 handed sword that also has a Threat Range of 18-20 like the scimitar, but it does 2d4 instead of 1d6, so has a average of better than +1 Damage. Under a Lead Blades Spell, 1d6 becomes 1d8, but 2d4 becomes 2d6!

Freebooter is a Ranger Archetype. Like Rangers, but instead of a single Favored Enemy, they can single out any single opponent as a Move Action, and you and your whole party get +1 Attack and Damage against that guy.

2R2: 2 Weapon, BAB+2

2 Weapon Fight with Armor Spikes as your Off-hand Weapon. Armor Spikes do 1d6 Damage, and they are augmented by Lead Blades, too, inflicting 1d8 Damage instead of 1d6.

3R3: Endurance, Iron Will, BAB+3

Few things make my skin crawl more than that evil gleam in the GM's eye when he asks, "Are you Sleeping in your Armor?" If you sleep in your Medium or Heavy Armor, you wake up Fatigued. But if you take it off, you WILL be fighting Hill Giants in your underwear that night. Endurance lets you sleep in your Medium Armor and not get Fatigued.

4R3Brawler1: Martial Training, Martial Cunning, Martial Flexibility, Unarmed 1d6, BAB+4
5R3B1Fighter1: Improved Grapple, Shield Focus, BAB+5
6R3B1F1Living Monolith1: Ka Stone: Enlarge Person 3/day, Toughness

When Enlarged, you gain 5' of reach, +1 Damage due to Strength, +2 on all Combat Maneuvers, and your Actual Size increase from Medium to Large stacks with the Virtual Size increase of your weapon now from Large to Huge. Your 2d6 Estoc now does 3d6. Your Armor Spikes will do 2d6

I noticed you are taking Combat Reflexes, but you don't have any way of getting your Attacks of Opportunity: no trigger. That extra 5' of Reach gives you an AoO trigger if you do want Combat Reflexes.

7R3B2F1L1: Weapon Focus Armor Spikes, Greater Grapple, BAB+6
8R3B2F2L1: Bravery +1, Hamatula Strike, BAB+7

When you have Hamatula Strike, every time you do Damage with a Piercing weapon like your Estoc and your Armor Spikes, you get a free Grapple Attack. When you are wearing Armor Spikes, every time you make a successful Grapple Attack, you get to do your Armor Spike Damage.

So now, your Full Attack is Estoc/Grapple&Armor Spikes/Armor Spikes/Grapple&Armor Spikes/Estoc/Grapple&Armor Spikes

Lots of high-damage attacks: that's what we want.

9R3B2F3L1: Improved Critical, Armor Training +1, BAB+8

Just as tanky as you were, but you do a whole lot more Damage.


Thank you all

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Can you tell me what choices are fixed and what are flexible? Have you been playing with this character for a while, or will you be starting at level 9?

Yes, sorry, should've say it sooner. We start at level 9 and probably will end on it. Right now the only "locked" choices is that it's a pure fighter, 9F9, and wielding a Scimitar for aestethics. Stats, feats and everything else can be changed. I don't think I'm ready for complicated combos, just basic stuff to be effective at what a fighter does


With +0 WIS and poor Will save progression, Iron Will won't save you. Otherwise looks fine for a non-optimized character.

Generally, the fighter is pretty difficult to optimize as a class. It's solid in a group of non-optimizers, and can make a decent dip but you won't get the same mileage without multiclassing.

My 2 cp anyway.


@Serterstas: Are traits used in the campaign? If yes, I recomment Defender of the Society and the will save option of Deathtouched.

Meirril wrote:
My actual recommendation would be for a Headband of Vast Intelligence to help with the character's skill point problem. Outside of combat this fighter is dead weight. Raising int by 2 and adding 1 skill at full ranks helps a lot.

If your other suggestions are adhered, the character has the option of getting temporary skill ranks via Warrior Spirit -> Training enchantment -> Versatile Training.

Also, it would be better to spend 4k on the belt, and take Cunning, then to spend the gold on a headband and the feat on Greater Weapon Focus (+2 damage vs. +1 to int-based skills). The AWT feat into Versatile Training would be even better, but prevent the Training trick (which can also grant e.g. the ability to fly via Item Mastery -> Flight Mastery).

Meirril wrote:
Also it takes Warrior's Spirit from +2 2/day to +4 4/day.

3/day and 5/day, respectively, as WT's pool is 1+weapon training bonus.


A Fighter without Cut From the Air? Despicable.

At level 9, you could have Smash From the Air, too.


Artofregicide wrote:

With +0 WIS and poor Will save progression, Iron Will won't save you. Otherwise looks fine for a non-optimized character.

Generally, the fighter is pretty difficult to optimize as a class. It's solid in a group of non-optimizers, and can make a decent dip but you won't get the same mileage without multiclassing.

My 2 cp anyway.

Serterstas wrote:
pure fighter, 9F9... I don't think I'm ready for complicated combos, just basic stuff to be effective at what a fighter does

There are the Advanced Trainings. Fighters can take Advanced Armor Training as a Feat after level 3 and Advanced Weapon Training as a Feat after Level 5.

Armed Bravery lets the Fighter apply his Bravery Bonus to all Will Saves.

Focused Weapon will let the Fighter do more Damage with his Scimitars as if by Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage. At level 9 the Base Damage of the Scimitars goes up to 1d8. At level 10, 1d10, and the Base Damage keeps going up every 5 levels after that.

Fighter's Tactics let the Fighter use Teamwork Feats as if he and all his Allies had those Feats. I'm quite fond of Broken Wing Gambit, maybe with Paired Opportunist, you get an Attack of Opportunity triggered just by being Attacked! Since you are Crit-Fishing, you should take Outflank or Seize the Moment which grant Attacks of Opportunity to Allies whenever you score Crits.

I was recommending earlier 2 weapon fighting with Estoc, Heavy Shield, and using Armor Spikes as the Off Hand Weapon, and there is no reason why you can't use your Scimitar instead of the Estoc.

Another option would be to use a Light Shield and take Improved Shield Bash, Shield Slam, and Greater Bull Rush: every hit with your Shield Bash gives you a free Bull Rush. Greater Bull Rush makes it so every Bull Rush grants Attacks of Opportunity to all allies, and Paired Opportunist makes it so the Fighter gets an AoO, too. A tactic I envision is do this with a Flanking Buddy, and your AoO will be another Shield Slam, triggering more Attacks of opportunity looping and lasting until everybody's Combat Reflexes runs out. The Harder they Fall Feat would let you Bull Rush Opponents that are normally too big to Bull Rush.

Still another option would be to take Effortless Dual Wielding, allowing the Fighter to wield 2 Scimitars.

Another way to increase the Fighter's survivability would be to take the Armored Juggernaut Advance Armor Training. It gives you Damage Reduction.


I would do stats like this

Str 16(Human +2 bumps it up to 18, untyped at 4 and 8 to 20)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8

Use the alternate human racial Heart of the Fey instead of Skilled. (+1 Reflex and Will Save, Low Light Vision and Perception as a Class Skill[WHY DONT FIGHTERS GET PERCEPTION AS A CLASS SKILL])

Meirrel wrote:


Ring of Protection +1 for 2,000gp.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2,000gp.

+2 Full Plate armor for 5,650gp.

+2 heavy steel shield for 4,170gp.

Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.

+1 scimitar for 2,315gp.

The remaining gold...
The offensive choice would be a Belt of Giant Strength +2 for 4k gold.

This is mostly good I think. I wouldn't buy the gloves of dueling. Don't skew your build towards offense or defense too heavily. I prefer a more balanced approach although a failed Will Save could kill your whole party. Get the belt and up the Scimitar to a +2. Throw in a Quick Runner's Shirt for 1,000 gp too. Make your weapon Silversheen for 750 gp and grab a +1 Composite Longbow or Sling with the rest of your cash.

If this game doesn't go past 9th level, I would ditch the Shield Focus feats because your AC is already going to be super overkill(CR+3 enemies are already missing you 50% of the time).

Like others have said Warrior Spirit and Armed Bravery are must haves. This means one of your feats needs to be the Advanced Weapon Training(Feat). Armor Specialization(Fullplate) is the best bang for buck for Advanced Armor Training.

Power Attack is a must because you have a lot of redundant attack power. Without counting buffs
+9 BAB
+6 STR
+2 Weapon
+2 Weapon Training
+2 Weapon Focus/Greater
=21 total unbuffed vs CR 12 average AC which is 27. You hit on a 6. If you use Warrior Spirit to Bane your weapon and give it +1 you hit on a 3.


Consider also the Intimidate Package

Intimidating Prowess
Cornugon Smash
Hurtful

Power Attack, hit, intimidate, Swift Action attack again. Very very strong combo but doesn't work on mind affecting immune targets so keep that in mind.


Meirrel wrote:

Ring of Protection +1 for 2,000gp.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2,000gp.
+2 heavy steel shield for 4,170gp.
Cloak of Resistance
+1 scimitar for 2,315gp.
Belt of Giant Strength +2 for 4k gold.

I like all of these choices.

Meirrel wrote:
Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.

Maybe +3. I'd go up to +2 almost for sure, but it's usually more cost-effective to spread the magic items all over your body and get your plusses from different sources rather than get a lot of plusses from a single item. I'd get up to +3 eventually; maybe right away like Meirrel advises, but I'd shop around for other things, before deciding, maybe some Ioun Stones.

Meirrel wrote:
+2 Full Plate armor for 5,650gp.

I like the +2 Armor, but I have some problems with Full Plate. Full Plate takes minutes to put on, and you can't even put it on properly without assistance. Most combats don't even last 1 minute. If you get into a battle before you have dressed in your armor for the morning, then you don't get to use your armor, or you sit out of that combat. Adventurers get into unexpected combats at all times of day and night all the time.

This is part of the reason why I recommend you take the Endurance Feat: you can sleep in Medium Armor. Without the Endurance Feat, you can sleep in Light Armor. You could get Mithril Armor. Mithril Medium Armor is treated as Light Armor. Mithril Heavy Armor is treated as Medium Armor. You could get Mithril Full Plate and the Endurance Feat, and then you can sleep in your Armor. I usually consider Mithril Full Plate to be prohibitively expensive, though. IIRc, nonmagical Mithril Full Plate is like 11,000gp, and I consider that to be prohibitively expensive. But I usually think of these things as if I were starting off with a Level 1 character and level it up. Serterstas is starting off with a level 9 character and a pile of gold. It might make sense to spring for Mithril Full Plate(and take Endurance) and enchant it further later. Once you already have your Mithril Full Plate, putting +1 on it costs 1000gp like any other armor, the +2 costs an additional 3000, the +3 costs an additional 6000, and so on.

Another option would be the Swift Girding Spell. Swift Girding dresses you in your Armor, and it's casting time is 1 Standard Action. Swift Girding is a Level 1 Magus, Wizard, and Paladin Spell. A 1 Level dip in any of those Classes would let you use a Wand of Swift Girding, which is an inexpensive magic item and very reasonable to equip your starting 9th level character with. But Serterstas said he doesn't want to multiclass at all. An alternative to multiclassing would be be a Half Elf instead of a Human. Half Elves have an Alternate Racial Trait called Arcane Training that give them a 1/2 level in any one Arcane Spellcasting Class, so choose Arcanist, and you have a Half Elven Fighter that can also use any Sorcerer or Wizard Wand. That will let you dress in your Full Plate in 1 Standard Action, and the ability to use any other Wizard Wand gives you a lot of other options and flexibility both in combat and out.

On the other hand, my issue with Full Plate might not even be a problem. As your GM if he intends to enforce rules like Sleeping in your Armor and Time to Don and Doff Armor. If your GM intends to handwave that stuff, then forgetaboutit.

Sovereign Court

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Meirrel wrote:
Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.
Maybe +3. I'd go up to +2 almost for sure, but it's usually more cost-effective to spread the magic items all over your body and get your plusses from different sources rather than get a lot of plusses from a single item.

The Green Prism Ioun Stone(cracked) is only 4k, so its best to slot it in between +2 and +3 cloak because its cheaper. Same idea with a Dusty Rose Prism(normal) being 5k, so consider it between +2 and +3 armor. Its the same price as going to +3 from +2, but it also applies to CMD.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
... Swift Girding ... Swift Girding is a Level 1 Magus, Wizard, and Paladin Spell. A 1 Level dip in any of those Classes would let you use a Wand of Swift Girding...

Potion-able. Just buy 5 for a 'case of annoying GM'. However, from a strict wording of the spell, you would need to pay the material costs of the armor at creation of the wand/potion, meaning that 50 charge wand of Swift Girding is probably more like 75,750 gp... hardly a starter item. But you end up with 50 sets of Full Plate to lug around, so resell? In this case, it would be best to actually cast the spell.

Shadow Lodge

Consider the monster creation table from the bestiary for standard stats for CR. As level 9 you can expect to face monsters somewhere in the CR6-12 range. Look at the number, those are the benchmarks you want to hit. If we look at level, you need to be able to hit AC23, defend against a +17 attack, and save against DC18 effects. Against the big bad, you need to be able to hit AC27, defend against a +21 attack, and save against DC21 effects.

Another good thing to look at for benchmarks is the automatic bonus progression from pf unchained, as this gives you the developers' ideas of what basic magic items you should have for your level. According to this, at level 9 you should have a +2 weapon, +2 armor, +2 resistance item, +1 deflection, +1 natural armor, and two +2 stat items.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gnoams wrote:

Consider the monster creation table from the bestiary for standard stats for CR. As level 9 you can expect to face monsters somewhere in the CR6-12 range. Look at the number, those are the benchmarks you want to hit. If we look at level, you need to be able to hit AC23, defend against a +17 attack, and save against DC18 effects. Against the big bad, you need to be able to hit AC27, defend against a +21 attack, and save against DC21 effects.

That table assumes a party of unoptimized PCs with stuff like TWF Fighters with low Dex, cRogues, Wizard casting fireball, cMonks and other trap options.

If you'll properly build your PC to actually be a viable combatant, these numbers are laughably low.


You got some good suggestions above - I would make the scimitar a +1 Keen Scimitar (an extra 6k cost that you could get by lowering the plus of another item), then your crit threat range will be 15-20. 30% chance to best fit your crit mindset.


Ripgardien wrote:
You got some good suggestions above - I would make the scimitar a +1 Keen Scimitar (an extra 6k cost that you could get by lowering the plus of another item), then your crit threat range will be 15-20. 30% chance to best fit your crit mindset.

At the moment, the OP is leaning toward the Improved Critical Feat rather than the Keen Enchantment, but it's good that somebody offer Keen as an alternative: 6000gp vs a Feat slot to increase your Threat Range is a choice the self-reported novice should be made aware of.

Personally, for a Fighter that wants to emphasize Crit Fishing, I think I favor Improved Crit over Keen. If the OP wants to build more on Crit-Fishing, you can't build on top of Keen. You need to take Improved Critical to take Crit Focus and those other lovely Crit Feats like Blinding Critical or Bleeding Critical. If the OP were building the character from Level 1, Keen might make more sense even if he intended to take IC, CF, and BC later: just sell the scimitar once you take Improved Crt. But since he is starting at level 9, the real question is does he want to take more Crit Feats other than Improved Critical? If the answer is yes, he shouldn't bother with Keen.

Serterstas wrote:
Critical Focus

So the answer was yes, but Sererstas has been getting a lot of feedback on how to build his character, and might have changed his mind.

Since you are suggesting he get the Keen Enchantment on his scimitar, you are also implicitly suggesting he should not take Improved Crit or Crit Focus. What do you recommend he take instead?

Shadow Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:
gnoams wrote:

Consider the monster creation table from the bestiary for standard stats for CR. As level 9 you can expect to face monsters somewhere in the CR6-12 range. Look at the number, those are the benchmarks you want to hit. If we look at level, you need to be able to hit AC23, defend against a +17 attack, and save against DC18 effects. Against the big bad, you need to be able to hit AC27, defend against a +21 attack, and save against DC21 effects.

That table assumes a party of unoptimized PCs with stuff like TWF Fighters with low Dex, cRogues, Wizard casting fireball, cMonks and other trap options.

If you'll properly build your PC to actually be a viable combatant, these numbers are laughably low.

If that is your experience, then I'm guessing you play with a GM that adds the advanced template to everything, consistently uses high CR enemies for your level, or builds their own npcs and ignores the creation guidelines. The published bestiary monsters are built around these numbers. They definitely fluctuate, but tend to be within a couple points of the listed ranges. We can only make recommendations for the base game, I have no idea what your home brew may be like.

It is certainly possible to optimize numbers in pf1 to be much higher than this table, but without something to compare to, I have no idea what those numbers actually mean.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gnoams wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
gnoams wrote:

Consider the monster creation table from the bestiary for standard stats for CR. As level 9 you can expect to face monsters somewhere in the CR6-12 range. Look at the number, those are the benchmarks you want to hit. If we look at level, you need to be able to hit AC23, defend against a +17 attack, and save against DC18 effects. Against the big bad, you need to be able to hit AC27, defend against a +21 attack, and save against DC21 effects.

That table assumes a party of unoptimized PCs with stuff like TWF Fighters with low Dex, cRogues, Wizard casting fireball, cMonks and other trap options.

If you'll properly build your PC to actually be a viable combatant, these numbers are laughably low.

If that is your experience, then I'm guessing you play with a GM that adds the advanced template to everything, consistently uses high CR enemies for your level, or builds their own npcs and ignores the creation guidelines. The published bestiary monsters are built around these numbers. They definitely fluctuate, but tend to be within a couple points of the listed ranges. We can only make recommendations for the base game, I have no idea what your home brew may be like.

It is certainly possible to optimize numbers in pf1 to be much higher than this table, but without something to compare to, I have no idea what those numbers actually mean.

I'm a GM. Yes, we exist. Who would have thought?

Throwing these numbers at players who have even a moderate level of system mastery and optimization results in walkover encounters. I'm not even talking about twinking out, I'm talking about elementary no-brainer stuff, like having a Fighter starting with STR 20 and going greatsword+DPR feats. If somebody actually breaks out the cool stuff, these benchmarks fly out of the window and you're left with having to build encounters around the capabilities of the party, ignoring the CR and the example values.


Scavion wrote:


Meirrel wrote:


Ring of Protection +1 for 2,000gp.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2,000gp.

+2 Full Plate armor for 5,650gp.

+2 heavy steel shield for 4,170gp.

Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.

+1 scimitar for 2,315gp.

The remaining gold...
The offensive choice would be a Belt of Giant Strength +2 for 4k gold.

This is mostly good I think. I wouldn't buy the gloves of dueling. Don't skew your build towards offense or defense too heavily. I prefer a more balanced approach although a failed Will Save could kill your whole party. Get the belt and up the Scimitar to a +2. Throw in a Quick Runner's Shirt for 1,000 gp too. Make your weapon Silversheen for 750 gp and grab a +1 Composite Longbow or Sling with the rest of your cash.

So let me explain why I'm insisting on the Gloves of Dueling:

It doubles the strength of Warrior's Spirit at this level. It is also effectively adding +2 enhancement bonus to your main weapon. And a special bonus of +4 to avoid people taking your weapon away.

Out of all the equipment that I suggested, this is the only piece of gear this fighter won't replace. The gloves of dueling are an end-game, best in slot piece of equipment for a fighter.

The really disappointing decisions I made: I wanted to make the armor adamantine, but its just too expensive. Not enough bang for the buck. I wanted to make the scimitar, amulet and ring +2 but the budget is too tight for that. I pushed the cloak of resistance to +3 because a +1 in saves is a lot more efficient than +2 in AC. A blown save hurts you worse than being hit more often. Especially when you're talking about a build that includes a heavy shield.

And I think every character should have a magical bag of some kind by this level, but the budget was tight.

Also I would of loved to put in a Ring of Freedom but the budget is too low. I highly recommend this for any class, and its a bit more important for anyone that enters melee because grapple is a common big monster ability. Immunity is better than defense.


Meirril wrote:
Scavion wrote:


Meirrel wrote:


Ring of Protection +1 for 2,000gp.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2,000gp.

+2 Full Plate armor for 5,650gp.

+2 heavy steel shield for 4,170gp.

Cloak of Resistance +3 for 9,000gp.

+1 scimitar for 2,315gp.

The remaining gold...
The offensive choice would be a Belt of Giant Strength +2 for 4k gold.

This is mostly good I think. I wouldn't buy the gloves of dueling. Don't skew your build towards offense or defense too heavily. I prefer a more balanced approach although a failed Will Save could kill your whole party. Get the belt and up the Scimitar to a +2. Throw in a Quick Runner's Shirt for 1,000 gp too. Make your weapon Silversheen for 750 gp and grab a +1 Composite Longbow or Sling with the rest of your cash.

Out of all the equipment that I suggested, this is the only piece of gear this fighter won't replace. The gloves of dueling are an end-game, best in slot piece of equipment for a fighter.

I won't deny the Gloves of Dueling are probably the best item in the game for Fighters, but "End Game" is exactly the reason I wouldn't get it in this case. OP mentioned that the game will begin and end 9th level so there likely won't be all that much in equipment to be gained so we can't fill in the blanks by overstatting into offense. My suggestions were mostly geared towards being able to survive and contribute in a broad variety of situations and making sure their saves won't make them a liability.


First off, don't play a fighter if you want versatility.

The class simply doesn't have the skill access or spell access. Fighters take damage, occupy terrain, and deal really good damage. You can usually milk out competence in a few social skills depending on whether you go int tertiary or cha tertiary.

Realistically you're already not going to be pushing the envelope on raw damage by choosing scimitar/shield. It can still be a fun and effective build, but you're going to creep dangerously close to the lower end of damage as your build doesn't do the shield bash/twf chains that help keep sword and board competitive.


Instead of focusing on STR you may want to consider focusing on DEX. There are a couple of ways to get DEX to damage and that would allow you to boost both your damage and your defenses with one stat. It would also boost your reflex saves as well as your AC. A straight fighter gets armor training so this actually works well for a fighter. You can either stick with the scimitar and use dervish dance, or use an elven thorn blade and go with slashing grace. For your stats I would suggest STR 13, DEX 20 (both level bonuses), CON 14, INT 10 WIS 12 and CHA 10.

For race consider going half elf instead of human. Doing so will allow you to pick up exotic weapon proficiency elven thorn blade without using a feat. It also gives you a+2 bonus vs enchantments and a +2 to perception. It also give you low-light vision and you can trade out multitalented for darkvision. Since you are not dumping INT you will still end up with more skill points.

For feats go with weapon finesse, weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, power attack, improve critical, and whatever feat you want for DEX to damage. Also keep Iron will as you now have enough other bonuses to will saves to actually make it worthwhile. Don’t bother with Improved Initiative as you already have a good DEX. At this point you could go with the stand still line, but will want agile maneuvers to allow you to use DEX instead of STR for CMB. But this character is actually fairly mobile so other options exist.

Your best bet on armor is going to be a +2 mithral breastplate. A Belt of incredible dexterity +4 is also going to be something you should have. Also take a +1 amulet of natural armor, +1 ring of protection and a +2 cloak of resistance. Get a +2 enchantment on your weapon and that will leave you 5k and change for the rest of your equipment.

At this point your AC is 27 (18 for touch), you have +10 fort save, +12 reflex save +10 will save (+12 vs enchantments). Your attacks will be +19/+14 doing 1d6+19 with a 15-20 critical range. Your Initiative will be +7 and your speed will be 30.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
whatever feat you want for DEX to damage.

Fencing Grace + Slashing Grace or a 3 level dip in Unchained Rogue.

Ryan Freire wrote:
don't play a fighter

The OP is committed to playing a single-class Fighter.

Ryan Freire wrote:
Realistically you're already not going to be pushing the envelope on raw damage by choosing scimitar/shield.

And he's committed to scimitar.

Serterstas wrote:
Right now the only "locked" choices is that it's a pure fighter, 9F9, and wielding a Scimitar for aestethics.
Ryan Freire wrote:
you're going to creep dangerously close to the lower end of damage as your build doesn't do the shield bash/twf chains that help keep sword and board competitive.

I know, right? The OP self-identifies as a novice player and wants to keep things simple. I actually offered him a very powerful build that colors along the lines you are drawing out, and he already said "no."

Ryan Freire wrote:
I don't think I'm ready for complicated combos, just basic stuff to be effective at what a fighter does
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Your best bet on armor is going to be a +2 mithral breastplate.

Ah, yes, the Mithril, Agile Breastplate. Solid choice for a Dex-to-Damage melee character.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
A Belt of incredible dexterity +4 is also going to be something you should have.

I disagree with this advice in context of the rest of your advice. Breastplates allow for a maximum Dex bonus to AC of +3. Making the Breastplate Mithral raises that to +5. You are already making the OP's starting Dex 20, and a 20 Dex already has a +5 Bonus. There is little reason for increasing the Dex further unless you are giving the OP an Attack of Opportunity build, and you haven't done that, yet. In context, he's be better off with a belt that gives him +2 ST & Con, and that would be cheaper than +4 Dex. Better still to have a headband of Wisdom and increase his Will Save.


Gorbacz wrote:
Throwing these numbers at players who have even a moderate level of system mastery and optimization results in walkover encounters. I'm not even talking about twinking out, I'm talking about elementary no-brainer stuff, like having a Fighter starting with STR 20 and going greatsword+DPR feats. If somebody actually breaks out the cool stuff, these benchmarks fly out of the window and you're left with having to build encounters around the capabilities of the party, ignoring the CR and the example values.

I know I'm being a contrarian jerk, but a greatsword Fighter with starting STR 20 is not a good example of someone with a moderate level of system mastery. Ruining your point buy and going for the highest damage dice instead of a reach weapon are mistakes that new players do.


You are forgetting to factor in armor training. That raises the maximum DEX bonus to +7. So the DEX belt increases his AC, and his chance to hit, his damage, his reflex save, and his Initiative. He also has three unspent feats and if he uses them for the still line feat chain he will have combat reflexes. STR on this build only increases his carrying capacity. Con will increase his HP and fortitude saves, but that is about all. The DEX belt gives a lot more than the STR & CON does.

If he is going to play a single classed fighter and stay with the scimitar dervish dance works better than slashing grace. The scimitar is not a weapon that can normally be finessed, but dervish dance takes care of that.

If he is going to stick with the scimitar going half elf would allow him to take dual minded to get another +2 to Will saves. At this point if he wants to go with the Stand Still line, he may want to pick up a +1 Keen Scimitar instead of going with improved critical. The ironic part about this build is that the his saves are actually reversed. Where a fighter normally has weak will and reflex saves those are acutally his strongest.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:


Ryan Freire wrote:
don't play a fighter

The OP is committed to playing a single-class Fighter.

Ryan Freire wrote:
Realistically you're already not going to be pushing the envelope on raw damage by choosing scimitar/shield.

And he's committed to scimitar.

I'm aware, my post was more about tempering OP's expectations. If you chase out of combat versatility too hard with a fighter you stop being able to combat particularly well.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
You are forgetting to factor in armor training.

I am! That is fair to say that I was not considering Armor Training.

Serterstas wrote:
We start at level 9 and probably will end on it.

So he gets a +1 at Level 3 and another at level 7, for +2, and that means he will fully actualize a 22 Dex, justifying a Belt of Dex +4.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
That raises the maximum DEX bonus to +7. So the DEX belt increases his AC, and his chance to hit, his damage, his reflex save, and his Initiative.

Ok

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Con will increase his HP and fortitude saves, but that is about all. The DEX belt gives a lot more than the STR & CON does.

Yeah, but HP and Fort saves are important in their own right. And for that matter so are Will Saves. I think it would behoove him to spend 4000gp on a headband of Wisdom +2 before paying 12,000gp to raise his +2 Belt of Dexerity to +4. It might even be worthwhile to pay 6000gp to make his belt give him a +2 Con before souping up his Dex to +4. He might end up with enough gold to do all that when he tallies it all up, though.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
He also has three unspent feats and if he uses them for the still line feat chain he will have combat reflexes.

Even with a mere Dex of 20, it seems a shame not to develop Attacks of Opportunity for the OP's character. I know you don't want to multiclass at all, Serterstas, but if dipped even 1 level in Cavalier, you could take the Seize the Moment or Outflank Feat, and a Class Ability that would let you give that Feat to all your Allies. Then every time you score a Crit, and you've been wanting to do that a lot, you'd be giving all your allies Attacks of Opportunity. Actually, whenever any of you scores a crit, all of you get Attacks of Opportunity, except the one who scored the crit, sadly. But you can take Fighter's Tactics as a Feat after level 5, and that means you get to take Paired Opportunist and use it as if all your allies hat PO, too. That means whenever any of your allies get Attacks of Opportunity, you do, too.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
If he is going to play a single classed fighter and stay with the scimitar dervish dance works better than slashing grace. The scimitar is not a weapon that can normally be finessed, but dervish dance takes care of that.

Dervish Dance is the way to go, not Slashing Grace. Good.


While wills saves are important that is not something my build is neglecting. If he goes with the half elf and takes dual minded his bas will save is 12, and he gets an additional +2 bonus vs enchantments. That is higher than a lot of 9th level caster at this level. This character’s weakness is not will saves, and trying to get it higher is pushing it into the realm of diminishing returns.

The best way to keep a character like this up is to avoid taking damage. Extra HP are nice, but again not the most effective way to keep the character up. +2 CON is going to give him an extra 9 HP and+1 fortitude save. The additional 2 DEX is going to reduce the chance of him being hit by 5% including vs touch attacks like rays. It also gives him a 5% better chance of taking half damage from a lot of spells. 5% less chance does not seem like a lot, but considering the number of attacks the typical character faces in the course of a game it is significant. The bonus on fortitude save is actually more important, but in the end DEX gives more band for the buck, especially for this build.


Instant death favors Fort/Will saves vs Reflex/AC. Fort also represents a bunch of nasty stuff that might make him unable to do his job as a Fighter.

Half Elves with the Dual Minded racial trait are a strong choice. If Iron Will is something you want for the Human Build, Half Elf Dual Minded is basically 100% better since it stacks with the Half-Elf bonus vs Enchantment.


Fortitude save is normally more important than reflex save, but that is not all that DEX is giving this build. It also boosts his chance to hit and damage, and gives him a better chance of going first. Being able to take down a spell caster before they can cast makes the save a moot point. The extra DEX does not guarantee that the character goes first, but it does increase the chance of that happening. Weighing the benefits of +1 fortitude save and 9 HP vs. +1 to hit , +1 to damage, +1 AC (including touch), +1 reflex save, +1 Initiative, and +1 on DEX based skills, I have to go with DEX.

Like I said before Will saves have already been taken care of. A +12 or higher bonus to a save at 9the level is pretty decent.

Liberty's Edge

A Tanky Fighter level 9

Alright.
HD: 9d10 BAB +9/4 Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +3 <--- Base things at 9th Level for a fighter as well as Armor Training 2, Bravery +2 and Weapon Training 2.

Since it sounds like you went the route of human and your new it sounds as well I'll keep everything to the Core Book to help. Later on, if you like the game branching out into the other books.

The Stats you have Currently are
20 Str 14 Dex 16 Con 7 Int 11 Wis 8 Cha
A Good Solid brute style character Something you might want to consider is a two-handed fighter instead of a Scimitar Warrior.

Anyway with these stats you have the base following
HD 9d10+27 Melee: +14/+9, Ranged +11/+6, Fortitude +9, Reflex +5, Will +3,Armor training 2 & Bravery+2

Feats [Brute Build]
H- Endurance
1- Toughness (Breaks down to an extra HP per level, for a Total of +9HP)
1F- Weapon Focus [Falchion]
2F- DieHard
3- Athletic (Can be Switched out for Skill Focus -Intimidate if you want to amp up causing fear)
4F- Weapon Specialization [Falchion]
5- Great Fortitude (additional +2 Fortitude)
6F- Vital Strike
7- Dazzling Display
8F- Improved Critical
9- Critical Focus

Weapon training: Heavy Blades +2, Light Blades +1

A Regular Falchion will be set at +17/+12 2d4+11/15-20 x2 Critical, with a +4 To Confirm a Critical

As for Gear 46,000GP

Primary Weapon: +1 Shocking Falchion [Cost: 8,375 GP] this will add an additional +1 To hit above and to it's base damage, as well as 1d6 Electrical Damage.

Main Armor: +4 Mithril Breast Plate [Cost: 20,200 GP]
{This gives you a +10 Armor Bonus, Max Dex: +5, Armor Check Penalty: -0, Weight 15Lb's and is considered Light armor, so your speed isn't reduced, and while a bit high for the level your at, the Gm shouldn't find it too imbalancing}

Belt Of Giant Strength +2 [Cost: 4,000 GP, bringing your strength to 22]

Cloak Of Resistance +2 [Cost: 4,000 GP, adds a +2 to all your Saves]

Amulet Of Natural Armor +1 [cost: 2,000: Grants a +1 Natural Armor Bonus]

Ring Of Protection +1 [Cost: 2,000: Grants a +1 Deflection Bonus]

Brooch of Shielding [Cost: 1,500: Prevents up to 101 Points of damage from magical missile before becoming Inert]

Handy Haversack [Cost: 2,000: Best backpack ever, It can hold up to 80Lb's of items, but only weighs 5Lb's]

Then comes basic Gear: a belt pouch, a blanket, a flint and steel, rope, soap, torches (10), trail rations (7 days), and a waterskin. Which comes to 8 GP

Leaving you with 1,917 Gold.

As for Skills: Intimidate +10 [9 Ranks, +3 For Class Skill Bonus, -2 Charisma] After a Successful Hit you can as a Free Action roll an Intimidate check against all foes within 30ft of you, that can see you.
If you take Skill focus instead of Athletics, Add +3 To intimidate for a total of +13
The DC to intimidate creates is 10+HD-/+ Wis Mod of the enemies. So it won't always work, but the higher you roll the longer the enemies take penalties to attack you.

For a Class Bonus, I would add an additional 9 HP

Which would bring you to a Total of 9d10+45 [Which if your going PFS would mean you have 103 Hit Points]

Your Armor Class would also be 24 (Touch: 13, Flat: 22)

When Going all out your Falchion would read this way

+1 Shocking Falchion: +16 (4d4+22 +1d6 Electrical/15-20 S) On a Crit 6d4+44 +1d6 Electrical Damage


Serterstas wrote:
pure fighter, 9F9... I don't think I'm ready for complicated combos, just basic stuff to be effective at what a fighter does

Let me try again.

Half Elf: Arcane Training

Arcane Training is that Alternate Racial Trait I was telling you about. It lets you use magic wands, such as that lovely Wand of Swift Girding that will let you dress in Full Plate as a Standard Action. That way, if Wandering Monsters do come into your camp and wake you up, you are only delayed half a round, and not fighting in your underwear.

I do still recommend Estoc over Scimitar, and you could get that with another Half Elf Alternate Racial Trait.

1Fighter1: Iron Will, 2 Weapon

I still like sword and Heavy Shield, using Armor Spikes as the off-hand weapon. Another option would be to fight with Scimitar and Kukri. A Kukri is a like a Dagger that has an 18-20 Threat Range, but you can't throw it.

2F2: Bravery+1, Weapon Focus Scimitar
3F3: Armor Training +1, Weapon Focus Kukri
4F3Cavalier 1: Tactician, Outflank

I know you don't want to multiclass, but this is the only dip, and that's a big deal for me. Tactician is a Cavalier Class Ability, and what it does is let you share your Teamwork Feat with all your allies so you all get to use it. And Outflank is the Teamwork Feat I chose for you here. What Outflank does is it makes it so whenever you or any of your allies score a Critical hit (2 weapon fighting with your two 18-20 Threat Range Weapons), all your allies get Attacks of Opportunity.

5F4C1: Weapon Specialization Scimitar, Combat Reflexes
6F5C1: Weapon Training +1, Advanced Weapon Training: Fighter's Tactics
7F6C1: Bravery +2, Paired Opportunist

Paired Opportunist makes it so whenever any of your Allies get an Attack of Opportunity, you get one, too. Paired Opportunist is also a Teamwork Feat. You can't use Tactician to share PO, but Fighter's Tactics lets you use it as if your allies already had it.

8F7C1: Armor +2
9F8C1: Improved Crit, Broken Wing Gambit or Crit Focus

What Broken Wing Gambit does is make it so when you hit someone, you give them a +2 Attack and Damage to Attack you, but if they do, all your Allies get Attacks of Opportunity. They don't really unless they just happen to have BWG themsselves, but you get Attacks of Opportunity as if you and all your Allies had Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunist.

So here you have a build that is (almost) all Fighter and gets lots of Attacks of Opportunity exploiting Crits.

Shadow Lodge

I'm having fun with a fighter finessing a greatsword with advanced weapon training fighter's finesse. Trained grace with a pair of gloves of dueling easily makes up for the lower strength.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Hello, please help me optimise my 9th level Fighter All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice
Druid Gear