My take on the Gunslinger

[Pheris]

Hello,

My name is Pheris and this is my first post ever. I wish to have a great time with everyone!

Since Second edition was released me and my group played a lot of it but we struggle a lot trying to adapt characters from PF1 campaigns that were ongoing when P2 was released.

The most hard PCs are from Mummy’s Mask. In our team we have a Gunslinger and a Summoner (I am the Summoner).

We tried to make firearms before but with mixed results. Today I had an inspiration and I did (again) my own take on it and I did to an Archetype for The Gunslinger.

My GM liked the result but we know that some of the feats are a little unbalanced so he asked me to post this in some forums to get feedback on it.

I did the archetype thinking that lately seems like, or I feel like, Paizo is making archetypes a little more strong that when they released Second Edition. But that said, I know that maybe the archetype is a little overpowered.

Here the document: Gunslinger Archetype .

Thanks for reading!

Leave your feedback if you want to help me to improve it!

[HumbleGamer]

I just gave it a very quick read.

Can I ask you why you opted for giving "desperado shot" the finisher trait and the flourish trait?

I mean, It's a ranged double slice.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=356

Is there a specific reason to give the feat that extra limitations?

[Porridge]

Pheris wrote:

My GM liked the result but we know that some of the feats are a little unbalanced so he asked me to post this in some forums to get feedback on it.

I did the archetype thinking that lately seems like, or I feel like, Paizo is making archetypes a little more strong that when they released Second Edition. But that said, I know that maybe the archetype is a little overpowered.

Nice work! This proposal does a good job of capturing the gunslinger aesthetic (I especially like the mysterious stranger line of feats).

Balance-wise, I take it the natural point of comparison is a precision-edge crossbow-using Ranger. Here are some potential worries, with that as our point of comparison:

1. Modern firearms. The ability to not reload for long periods is going to make the short-term damage of a Gunslinger with modern firearms quickly outpace that of a Ranger. And since many combats will be relatively short, this will often be a big advantage.

That said, they're categorized as "rare", making their default status "they're not accessible to players". So maybe that's fine.

(The Modern Gunslinger Specialization adding an increased damage die to modern firearms makes this even better/less balanced. So a GM who allowed modern firearms might still want to disallow that particular feat.)

2. The Pistolero's Desperado Twin Shot. This ability looks like it will put the Gunslinger a fair bit ahead of a comparable Ranger (and ahead of the other Gunslinger specializations). Providing no multiple attack penalty makes this too good, and providing that an a free reload makes this really over the top.

Making it a two action ability and that did impose multiple attack penalties would make it in line with the Ranger's Hunted Shot feat (a one action saving feat that combines damage before applying resistance). But since the Ranger's Hunted Shot ability is level 2, you could reasonably lower the level of this ability as well if you went this way. (Maybe level 4, since the dedication feat is level 2.)

Making it a three action ability that didn't impose multiple attack penalties would... still be too good for a level 8 feat, I think. I'm pretty sure this would easily outstrip what a comparable precision-based Ranger could do until high levels (17+, when the precision-edge really kicks into gear). So I guess you could go this route and make it a level 16 or level 18 feat?

3. The Pistolero's Hail of Bullets. This ability likewise looks like it will put the Gunslinger a fair bit ahead of a comparable Ranger. Three attacks with no reload (but, if I'm reading it correctly, with normal multiple attack penalty?) is really good.

Now, it often won't be as good, DPR-wise, as the Desperado Twin Shot ability (which just goes to show how good the Desperado Twin Shot ability is). But it's still much better than what a comparable Ranger can do until high levels (17+). But I guess you could make the feat level 16, 18, or 20?

4. Finally, as written, it looks like the different abilities are RAW combinable. (I.e., it looks like you can apply the extra damage boost from the Mysterious Stranger's Focused Target ability to the three shots from Hail of Bullets, etc.) That has the potential to be unbalanced. But if you made these specializations mutually exclusive (you can't be a Pistolero *and* a Mysterious Stranger) then this wouldn't be a worry.

A related worry is that as an archetype, this is technically compatible with being (say) a Ranger, and getting the benefits of *both* the precision edge and all of these feats. That would be bonkers-good; being a strict improvement over the crossbow ranger. In a similar fashion, a Fighter who took this archetype would be strictly better than the crossbow-using ranger, having a +2 to hit on top of abilities similar to what the Ranger gets.

You could add various clauses to try to account for this: don't allow firearms to be used with Hunt Target, and impose level-based caps on proficiency, to prevent the Fighter from taking this archetype and getting too good. But that might be a bit of a headache. :/

Perhaps the cleanest way to get around this would be to make the Gunslinger a *class* archetype for some class (Ranger?). That would ensure you don't get stacking worries of this kind messing with the balance of the game.

[Grankless]

Echoing many of Porridge's critiques, particularly the class-mixing. Arguably you could make this in to a full class that just has a really kickass dedication? Otherwise weird restrictions may be in order.

I love your gun categorization - nicely done, mixes well with the dedication. I feel ammo may be a little too expensive, even if you craft it yourself - 5 silver for just 10 shots? (Unless I'm misremembering batch crafting.)