Smite Evil is missing the prerequisite "tenets of good"


Rules Discussion


Since I am extremely interested in the Champions of evil, I took another look at the champion.

While doing this I've found something for the upcoming errata - Smite Evil (the level 6 feat) is missing a prerequisite. Using the tools of the enemy against them is a popular evil move, but no self-respecting evil overlord would ever stoop so low as to deal good damage to their foes. So really, it should have "tenets of good" in there.

As we are on the topic, I really hope we will see some kind of inverted version for evil. Since evil Champion's Reactions will probably trigger off of yourself getting attacked, we will need many tools to become more annoying to the enemy - so they get to enjoy the bad times (tm) :)

Also, being able to choose from either negative or evil damage on your abilities (Divine Smite in particular comes to mind) will be key. Otherwise those guys will be absolutely unusable in 99% of adventure paths.

Silver Crusade

I'm not sure it is a typo since it requires the Divine Ally (Blade) as a prerequisite.

Divine Ally wrote:


Your devotion attracts a spirit of your deity’s alignment. Once you choose an ally, your choice can’t be changed.

The following are divine allies:

Blade Ally: A spirit of battle dwells within your armaments. Select one weapon or handwraps of mighty blows when you make your daily preparations. In your hands, the item gains the effect of a property rune. For a champion following the tenets of good, choose disrupting, ghost touch, returning, or shifting. You also gain the weapon’s critical specialization effect.

So while it wouldn't make much sense for Evil Champions to take it, it might have been intentionally left open to play around with the possibility of Neutral Champions.


While it may not actually be intended, I'm not convinced its inappropriate either.

Adopting the tools of your enemy for your own benefit is a pretty typical tool of the morally questionable, and Evil folks are known for fighting among themselves.

Regardless, its extremely unlikely to be Game Breaking - I'm not sure of any case where it can be turned against anyone who isn't evil anyway.


Karmagator wrote:

As we are on the topic, I really hope we will see some kind of inverted version for evil. Since evil Champion's Reactions will probably trigger off of yourself getting attacked, we will need many tools to become more annoying to the enemy - so they get to enjoy the bad times (tm) :)

Also, being able to choose from either negative or evil damage on your abilities (Divine Smite in particular comes to mind) will be key. Otherwise those guys will be absolutely unusable in 99% of adventure paths.

Since Lay on Hands and the Champion reactions are keyed to the good alignments, we will get new abilities, feats, and tenets for the evil alignments as well. (Likely Touch of Corruption for evil Champions.)

I seem to remember some discussion over not being able to cast spells with an alignment tag that doesn't match your alignment, but I can't find the rule for it right now. Not that it's relevant, since there's no Good tag on Smite Evil.

I don't really see a problem with it overall, though. Evil people will still kill other evil people, and the feat will likely be less attractive to them since it can't be used against anyone of a non-Evil alignment. That's just inefficient.


Rysky wrote:

I'm not sure it is a typo since it requires the Divine Ally (Blade) as a prerequisite.

So while it wouldn't make much sense for Evil Champions to take it, it might have been intentionally left open to play around with the possibility of Neutral Champions.

I agree that it doesn't really make a difference, since basically no one will take it. Its just weird that an evil character should be able to deal good damage, which is anathema to his entire being.

I would like to point out, though, that evil champions will have access to the blade ally as well. From how it is worded, the only difference will be what runes you get access to. So it technically wouldn't prevent you from taking Smite Evil.

Silver Crusade

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*nods*

We shall see when Evil Champions come out in a month.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
KrispyXIV wrote:

While it may not actually be intended, I'm not convinced its inappropriate either.

Adopting the tools of your enemy for your own benefit is a pretty typical tool of the morally questionable, and Evil folks are known for fighting among themselves.

Regardless, its extremely unlikely to be Game Breaking - I'm not sure of any case where it can be turned against anyone who isn't evil anyway.

Yeah, feels like this would let an evil champion function in a typical "most enemies are evil" campaign.

Design Manager

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Flagged it. Thanks for your vigilance folks!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

FWIW I agree with some of the above. Accidental or not, given the way the lower alignments work, Evil having tools that make them good at fighting Evil makes a lot of sense. They're probably going to be fighting other bad guys just as often, maybe even moreso, than fighting good enemies.

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