Can I add a small arm to my long arm's uniclamp?

[Ravingdork]

My operative has a sniper rifle, which I can't effectively use with trick attack. I'd like to get a uniclamp and attach a small arm to my rifle, so that I can use the pistol with trick attack and the rifle for long ranged attacks and non-trick attacks.

Would that work, or am I overlooking anything?

[Metaphysician]

. . . hmm. I mean, logically it *shouldn't* work, or rather, attaching a pistol to the side of a rifle should ruin the functionality of at least the pistol if not both weapons. However, since I can't see this actually harming game balance ( at best you are sparing yourself an occasional swapping of weapons, and its not like every fight would involve both pistol range and sniper range combat ), and it does involve paying a surcharge ( the cost of the uniclamp ), I'd be inclined to approve it. Or rather, I'd approve a "specialized custom transforming pistol/rifle", that just happens to have the same cost as pistol + rifle + uniclamp.

[The Artificer]

The Uniclamp is most likely unable to be used in that manner.

Thing is this is a level 1 item that costs 125.. I don't think it has that kind of utility.

All of the relevent examples in the weapon accessories items found on the table on page 58 each explicitly call out when they have a weapon interact with Other weapons they even mention which type of weapon they are for by name as well..

Uniclamp lvl 1 weapon accessory Armory pg 61

"This all-purpose accessory can hold a single handheld item of up to 1 bulk, such as a fire extinguisher or flashlight"

Neither of which is a gun.

But if you want to combine a pistol with a sniper rifle why not just maze core them together?

[Vo]

From a practical sense, no it wouldn't work. The pistol would be horrible to fire, almost impossible to aim.

From a rules point of view, i'd point out that the uniclamp "holds" an item of up to 1 bulk. That's the same as a holster "holding" a sidearm, it's not being wielded.

[Pantshandshake]

Vo wrote:

From a practical sense, no it wouldn't work. The pistol would be horrible to fire, almost impossible to aim.

From a rules point of view, i'd point out that the uniclamp "holds" an item of up to 1 bulk. That's the same as a holster "holding" a sidearm, it's not being wielded.

The uniclamp's rules of operation are that it runs whatever controls necessary to use the clamped device to the trigger mechanism of the weapon its clamped to, making it as if you're wielding the clamped device.

Seems like in a technical sense it would work, you'll just have to ask your GM if a pistol is an acceptable item to clamp to a rifle.

[Peg'giz]

I would say: Why not?
There are plenty of examples of under-barrel weapons around (granade launcher, shotguns, even pistols).

Only thing I would have think of is if the trick attack is then still possible.
From a "In-Universe" point-of-view I would say "no, trick attack requires you to be quick with your weapon to fool your enemy (similar to a feint in fencing)"
From a game design point-of-view I would say "yes, trick attack is limited to small arms to balance it (less base damage/range). And since the combination didn't remove this, it's fine."
Also it has the drawback that if you loose your "combi-rifle" (or it get destroyed) you loose both weapons.

[WatersLethe]

Seems like it would work by RAW. I would also agree it doesn't seem to be in-line with the game's other options for doing similar things.

[Vo]

Pantshandshake wrote:

The uniclamp's rules of operation are that it runs whatever controls necessary to use the clamped device to the trigger mechanism of the weapon its clamped to, making it as if you're wielding the clamped device.

Ahh thanks, hadn't picked up that.

[BigNorseWolf]

So you want your gun to have a gun?

The rules suggest this is a no

This all-purpose accessory can hold a single handheld item of up to 1 bulk, such as a fire extinguisher or flashlight, so you can use the item while wielding the weapon.

The intent (and raw since it says such as) is for items (not weapons) you would need to turn on like a fire extinguisher, flash light, com unit, music player etc.

[Al-dog]

I can totally understand the inclination to say "yea, that could work." Especially if you toss in a little fluff description of how it works/looks. I can totally imagine a big futuristic sniper rifle with a little rectangular attachment under the barrel that fires a smaller caliber bullet. But I think, basically, you're kinda gaming the system, and if i were GM'ing, I'd have to say no.

Because essentially:

"Dear mister wise and goodly GM sir, I'd like to duct tape this here gun to this here gun, and craft myself a dubba-gun for 150 creds, because I'm certainly not taking no quick draw feat. No sir."

Looking at alternative ways of accomplishing same/similar thing:

-A grenadier bracket costs 400 creds. Also imposes some minor drawbacks: half ammo capacity of the launcher you're using, and some potentially serious bulk. Also, this option exists because there's real world precedent. Attaching a grenade launcher to a big rifle is a thing we do. Attaching a pistol to a sniper rifle barrel isn't a thing we do (unless I'm watching all the wrong movies). This, though, is the only option that makes me think...maybe, just maybe, i'd let a uniclamp work this way....

but...

-Level 2 mechanic trick Concealed Device. In my opinion, a seriously sub-optimal pick for any PC mechanic. But in a galaxy full of spies, thieves, smugglers and the like, probably a staple of back-alley NPC mechanics just about anywhere.

"Starting at 5th level, you can conceal the functional parts of a technological item or a ranged weapon inside a technological object of the same size, as long as that object is at least 1 bulk. For instance, you can conceal an azimuth laser pistol inside a large-enough musical instrument or a pulsecaster pistol inside a beacon. Concealing a weapon in this way imposes a –2 penalty to attack rolls with that weapon and reduces its range by half. This requires an additional hour of work and an amount of UPBs equal to 10% of the concealed item."

I can totally envision pop-up ad's for "Big Bob's Mod's: If it's big enough to hide a gun in, I'll hide a gun in it."

Obviously, you don't want to take a -2 to all of your pistol attacks, despite how thematically appropriate this option is...

"Dear mister scary looking BBEG, I surrender, and put my hands in the air, but really I don't because TRICK: there's a gun in my gun!"

-someone recommended maze-core. My first time doing more than just briefly skimming the srd entry. Potentially cheaper than a clamp for your first double gun. But playing a campaign relying on this....oof. I don't think you can take 2 guns you find as loot, and simply maze-core them together. I think it's more like: if you want a maze core double gun, you have to design and build it from scratch. You're probably never going to find one as loot. And you're going to spend your entire campaign not wanting to use found guns. So while your friends are constantly finding upgrades, you spend a sizeable chunk of your credits on full-price purchasing 2.5 guns at once, whenever you want a gun upgrade.

Which is a bit of a bummer, because I liked Kiera's gun from Continuum, and a Sniper rifle that folds down into a very heavy looking pistol, that you then attach a folding grip to, so that it folds down even smaller, and then you can sleight of hand palm your sniper rifle... is a pretty cool concept.

But based on how rough these last two options are, a simple 150 cred uniclamp seems...not fair, to avoid a quick-draw feat tax.

[Pantshandshake]

I don't know that I agree that you have to have a maze core item created fresh from the store as opposed to creating a maze core item out of two items you found.

However, sniper weapons are not valid for a maze core, so its sort of a moot point for this topic anyway.

[Al-dog]

I totally missed that sniper weapons weren't on the list. Good catch.

Odd though. Longarm and heavy are both options for mazecore. Sniper class weapons are pretty similar to longarms, so it wouldn't be a surprise to me if that's just an oversight. Even if it's not, and there's a specific reason they excluded sniper from mazecore....i don't think it makes my original point entirely moot.

mazecore is essentially a rule that allows you to wield more than 2 hands worth of weapons on a character with only 2 hands, and switch from one to the other with a single swift action. The ability to do this is strictly better than the quick draw feat.

I've only read the one entry for mazecore on the srd, and if there are additional rules elsewhere i'm not aware of, feel free to change my mind about this but....

I don't see how you could find 2 guns (that are valid options for mazecore) and get away with saying "now i'd like to mash these together for half the price of the cheaper gun"

If I find, say, a level 14 laser weapon, but what i really wanted was the level 13 laser weapon...for reasons...I can't say "these are both laser weapons, and mine is more expensive, so i'm changing it to the level 13 version. I'd have to take apart the level 14 laser, and i'd be allowed to apply 10% of it's cost to the new item I was making. Which would still cost me quite a few credits.

mazecore is described as "multifunctional devices using an adjustable component known as a maze-core. A maze-core device acts as two different pieces of equipment, though it can function as only one of the two at any given time"

I read that as basically....more complicated in design than cramming two guns together.

Even if it's something you can do more or less on the fly, over the course of a campaign it's going to cost a fair bit more than a single 150 credit purchase you can grab at level 1.

[Nefreet]

Sniper Rifle => Small Arm => Light Bayonet Bracket => Operative Weapon

Anybody ever play Star Munchkin?

[Wesrolter]

A little combo I came up with for a friend was the called weapon fusion. He has a Soldier with 2 rifles, 1 for range and one for damage (Not sure how its going to play in later levels but the D8 to D10 has been useful). When he wants to switch, he drops his current for free and uses a swift action to 'call' the other rifle. Since you can call a weapon within 100ft I think, as long as he hasn't run off too far he can switch again.
I know it will keep costing to switch the fusion to a new weapon but if you keep hold of the sniper rifle in right hand, call pistol to left, Trick attack, drop, Sniper rifle time

[HammerJack]

Wesrolter wrote:

A little combo I came up with for a friend was the called weapon fusion. He has a Soldier with 2 rifles, 1 for range and one for damage (Not sure how its going to play in later levels but the D8 to D10 has been useful). When he wants to switch, he drops his current for free and uses a swift action to 'call' the other rifle. Since you can call a weapon within 100ft I think, as long as he hasn't run off too far he can switch again.

I know it will keep costing to switch the fusion to a new weapon but if you keep hold of the sniper rifle in right hand, call pistol to left, Trick attack, drop, Sniper rifle time

Note that the swift action to call a weapon prevents a full action trick attack in the same round, so the only way that works is the often disallowed Quick Trick.