Using Amulet of Mighty Fists and Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes


Rules Questions


Hi All.

I'm playing a new campaign with an Unchained Monk. Just wanted clarification on the rules and combining both of the items in the title.

Question 1...

Lets say I have

+3 Amulet of Mighty Fists
+1 Holy Bane (Dragon) Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes

I understand that Enhancement Bonuses don't stack so that it remains +3.
What I'm unclear about is whether the enhancement bonuses are on my unarmed attacks (weapon) or the item itself. I'm leaning towards the weapon and not the item.

Bane - Against a designated foe, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus.

Would this give my Unarmed Strikes the equivalent of +3 or +5 on attacks against Dragons? I'm asking if the additional +2 Enhancement bonus on my Unarmed Strikes from the Bane weapon ability becomes +5 against dragons, or is the +2 applied to the item and hence only increasing it to +3?

Question 2...

My thought processes on these two items is to use the AoMF for straight Enhancement Bonuses so I can gain the bonus for every attack regardless of situation and the BWoMS for ability bonuses equivalents like Bane and Holy which are limited to BAB increases and not all my attacks.

Is my thinking sound or should I be looking at it another way?

Thanks
George

Shadow Lodge

It’s unclear to me what the RAW Is in this case, but allowing a character to save tens of thousands of gp by combining the two items doesn’t seem quite right to me. That’s the rough price difference between adding the extra abilities to the Amulet and having them on the Body Wrap.


Ferka wrote:
It’s unclear to me what the RAW Is in this case, but allowing a character to save tens of thousands of gp by combining the two items doesn’t seem quite right to me. That’s the rough price difference between adding the extra abilities to the Amulet and having them on the Body Wrap.

Thanks for the response.

So I'm thinking the justification for being able to combine the two items for an Unarmed Weapon user is the fact that all Manufactured Weapons can be upgraded to +10 equivalent magic items whereas each individual item (AoMF and BWoMS) can not be upgrades to +10.


I think the proper rather than homebrewing a combination of these items is to rule that the Amulet of Mighty Strikes isn't limited to +5 total, but rather +10 just like any other weapon (while still limited to a +5 enhancement bonus). It would still cost double per effective enhancement bonus though, because it can affect all your natural attacks and unarmed strikes.

But I agree with the other poster, you shouldn't be allowed to combine these items because it would save you money to buy a combined effective +1 body wrap and flaming amulet of might fists vs buying a +1 flaming amulet of mighty fists.

Raising the stupid limit for total enhancement bonus restriction is the proper course of action, not a home brewed way to save money.


Whatever you decide the answer is, it should probably be the same for handwraps as well.

(& if you think the cost saving using two items is silly, try three)


GeorgeT wrote:
hat I'm unclear about is whether the enhancement bonuses are on my unarmed attacks (weapon) or the item itself. I'm leaning towards the weapon and not the item.

BoMS says they "grant melee weapon special abilities to a creature’s unarmed attacks" - in effect, you're attacking with that US or NA as if it were a weapon with that enchantment on it. So yes, you'd get +5 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls against dragons.

GeorgeT wrote:
My thought processes on these two items is to use the AoMF for straight Enhancement Bonuses so I can gain the bonus for every attack regardless of situation and the BWoMS for ability bonuses equivalents like Bane and Holy which are limited to BAB increases and not all my attacks.

Quite frankly, the BoMS is absolutely horrible for a Monk. At the levels you'd have items like your example, you have bewteen 7 and 10 unarmed strike, with the Bodywrap only enchanting 3 or 4 of them. And for that you have to pay 1.5 times the normal enchantment cost, plus a +1 that's wasted.

If you want more than a +5 total enchantment, use Handwraps - they won't affect the Flying Kick attack, but that's not actually a big deal (mathematically, a +X AoMF is worse than +(X+1) handwraps even when using Flying Kick).

Ferka wrote:
It’s unclear to me what the RAW Is in this case, but allowing a character to save tens of thousands of gp by combining the two items doesn’t seem quite right to me. That’s the rough price difference between adding the extra abilities to the Amulet and having them on the Body Wrap.

The character is spending 12k gold more than a regular weapon user would, just to have some of the enchantments on not only half their attacks. Yes, that indeed "doesn’t seem quite right". But it's the unarmed user, not the weapon user, who's getting the short end of the stick, even with the stacking.

avr wrote:
Whatever you decide the answer is, it should probably be the same for handwraps as well.

Why? They're regular weapons.

avr wrote:
if you think the cost saving using two items is silly, try three

"A character can’t benefit from both handwraps and other items that provide enhancement bonuses or weapon special abilities (such as an amulet of mighty fists) on the same attack."


I forgot handwraps existed.

Yeah, you should just use those. It will do everything you need except enhance your flying kick.


Thanks for the feedback and responses all, very appreciated.

Derklord, thank you for the Heads-up about the Handwraps, didn't even know they existed.

I looked at the Style Strikes that I plan on taking that use Kicks...

Flying Kick - like you said, if I have x attacks and miss on my Flying Kick in the first attack, I still have x more attacks with the fists.

Spining Kick - again you identifies that Touch AC is usually much lower when you would use this

I did read in one of the other treads that Luis Loza suggested talking to the GM about using on your feet. If the GM is open to this option, then he may also accepts Talonhawke's suggestion by covering all bases by wrapping the two items on one hand and one foot.

If I can't be using the wraps on my feet, there is always the option to pick up Pummeling Style/Charge and still get that full attack action.

Anyways at least I have options now and not bound to max of +5 on weapon enhancements.

George


If you're really concerned about having all your attacks enhanced I would just suggest asking your GM to let you enhance an Amulet of Mighty Fists to +10 total. This works out to be the same cost as two regular manufactured weapons, but would enhance all your unarmed strikes (not just fists) and enhance any natural attacks you might have.

You could also ask your GM to use automatic bonus progression, which would be quite beneficial to you as a monk when looking at the cost of enhancing your AC and to hit bonuses, as you don't get hit with having to buy higher cost versions of items to get the same bonuses other characters do.


GeorgeT wrote:
Flying Kick - like you said, if I have x attacks and miss on my Flying Kick in the first attack, I still have x more attacks with the fists.

Yes, the beauty of Flying Kick is that the attack doesn't have to hit. And in case it wasn't completely clear, a full attack with e.g. +4 handwraps (which cost 32k) deals more average damage than a full attack with a +3 AoMF (which costs 36k), even when using Flying Kick. Whenever you can affort handwraps with a higher bonus, which should be most of the time, they're better than AoMF even when using Flying Kick. It's just not as smooth to play, because you have different attack and damage bonuses on your attack rolls.

GeorgeT wrote:
Spining Kick - again you identifies that Touch AC is usually much lower when you would use this

Flat-footed AC, actually, not touch AC. It's not really that good a style strike most of the time, anyway. Elbow Smash is usually better for damage, although it's not clear whether Handwraps apply to the bonus attack (I think they should, as that part about the elbow is probably flavor text). If Handwraps apply to Elbow Smash's bonus attack but not to Flying Kick, Pummeling Style (which is a perfectly competitive style chain even with AoMF) is actually a very good.

The main style strikes that are problematic with Handwraps are Foot Stomp and Leg Sweep. Unless you plan on using either, you should be good to go with Handwraps.

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